Would the REAL Sarah Kidd Please Stand Up

[gjb]

 

[Bocaj]

View attachment 2260409

This has always confused me. Those different versions of the same map. (Which is as I showed the same outline as the RI map).
There is are so many things wrong with it:

• different handwriting in the same map and between at least two of them
• simple outline vs filled details.
• out of context and frame "of me Sarah ~W" (not Sarah K or Sarah O)
• the handwriting is different to the other maps except the last of the above
• one of those maps was proven a modern copy (ink test) but which one?
• 1669 has no relation to Kidd
• why is a point written after 1669?

Frankly those always looked fake to me.

 

[Cryptid1990]

The first map is a photograph of the original parchment. If you read the documents in the folder MEPO 2/9166 (National Archives), it is made clear that the original parchment was tested/examined by the forensic scientist Wilson R. Harrison as well as someone from The Metropolitan Police Laboratory in 1951. It was not a copy or reproduction (line-drawn tracing) on modern paper since the reports describe it as a "parchment" and Elizabeth Dick is quoted as saying she believed the parchment map that was sent to be forensically examined was genuine (17th century) and drawn or owned by Captain Kidd. Although the parchment material might date to the 17th century, the ink was determined not to be but much more recent, while the writing style was concluded to be early 20th century including the unconventional compass rose (which as I explained in other posts has more in common with compass roses on fictional maps) and the "CHINA SEA" had modern pencil marks under the ink. The handwriting ("of me Sarah W...") tries to imitate 17th century cursive, but the strokes more likely reflect 20th-century penmanship. The compass rose is unambiguously not something that would have appeared on a 17th century nautical chart. I am not sure what the copyright status of the folder is (including the photograph) but it is Crown Copyright. It is possible copyright has expired (public domain), alternatively, it might still be protected although can be published under the Open Government Licence (OGL v3.0) but you would need to include an attribution statement. I would have posted the whole folder here if I got clarity on the copyright. I have a digital scan of the entire folder (98 pages) including the photograph. You can purchase a digital scan of the whole folder from the National Archives for £117.60 (which is how much it cost me in August 2025). However, if you only want specific pages this will cost less.

 

[Cryptid1990]

The contents of MEP 2/9166 including two 1951 forensic reports on the map were not made public until 2004. Prior to 2004, very few people knew about these reports that were private and their contents were disclosed to only a handful of individuals. The fact that the two forensic reports concluded the map is not authentic and drawn in early 20th century, explains why Elizabeth Dick's attitude changed post-1951. After the reports, she no longer expressed an interest in going on a treasure hunting expedition and she was quoted in newspapers as saying she was bored or tired with the maps. I can only presume based on these reports that she realised the maps are a hoax but she did not publicly admit this because she wanted to make money by selling them. It is highly suspicious to say the least that Dick never publicly mentioned these forensic reports, despite she went on to live another 14-years (she died on 20 July 1965). She would have certainly been informed about the forensic reports of the parchment that revealed it was a hoax map since she gave police permission for the testing/examination.

Post-2004, when the contents of the MEP 2/0166 were made public and the folder was unsealed - 'true believers' in the map's authenticity like Paul Hawkins and George Edmunds, were panicking, and had to come up with an explanation or rather an ad hoc hypothesis made up on the spot to not concede being disproven. How could the ink on the map postdate the 17th century and there be modern pencil marks under the ink if Captain Kidd drew it? This is when, the true believers started incorrectly claiming that the original parchment was not tested but a modern copy of the map was tested. This makes no sense and is refuted by anyone who reads the contents of the folder (the map is clearly described as the original "parchment"). To this day George Edmunds (who in the 2000s erroneously believed these maps are authentic and drawn by Kidd) is still wrongly claiming that it was a copy (somehow by the British Museum) that was forensically tested and not the original:

The 'modern pencil marks', for those not in the know, were by a cartographer at the British Museum, possibly Skelton. He very carefully traced the maps with very small dashes. When satisfied with the correctness, the outline was filled in. The Bureau map was actual size, the others X2. I have the negatives. This is for info only, not an invitation for Cryptid to start an argument denying it happened.

 

[Cryptid1990]

This has always confused me. Those different versions of the same map. (Which is as I showed the same outline as the RI map).

I am not sure who made the three reproductions (top-left is a photograph of the original parchment map) -

• Top-right: a digital high-contrast scan of the photograph with the outer background isolated.
• Bottom-left: a detailed tracing reproduction that retains the shading on the island.
• Bottom-right: a simplified outline/line-drawn tracing reproduction.

I have looked through a couple of Rupert Furneaux's books who was the first to publish some reproductions of the Kidd-Palmer maps in the 1970s. These reproductions are not in them (only the Coral Island/Skeleton Map), however, the fourth (bottom-right) image looks like the others so it could be from Furneaux (1972) and over the decades it has been copied (the image border has been cropped or edited online).

 

[Bocaj]

I am not sure who made the three reproductions (top-left is a photograph of the original parchment map) -

• Top-right: a digital high-contrast scan of the photograph with the outer background isolated.
• Bottom-left: a detailed tracing reproduction that retains the shading on the island.
• Bottom-right: a simplified outline/line-drawn tracing reproduction.

I have looked through a couple of Rupert Furneaux's books who was the first to publish some reproductions of the Kidd-Palmer maps in the 1970s. These reproductions are not in them (only the Coral Island/Skeleton Map), however, the fourth (bottom-right) image looks like the others so it could be from Furneaux (1972) and over the decades it has been copied (the image border has been cropped or edited online).

Indeed this is very interesting as the 3 filled versions seem to be created by the same artist who created the RI map. The handwriting at least is very similar. The last one has the same hand writing as the Palmer maps (the handwriting style is indeed similar to Kidd's). As the Sarah map is not in any of the published prints I have to assume it was a version made for the book that has not been used and somehow made it into the furniture sold to Palmer. But why do the other maps have the same handwriting as the outline map? Or is the handwriting on them different on the reproduction than the original? In Hawkins website I read that both versions of the Sarah map were "discovered" by Palmer in furniture he bought.

As far as I have seen the original and the traced copies have the same writing. how does this make sense?

 

[Bocaj]

Some comparision:

• The tracing of the original map taken from the short movie clip seem to be quite exact including the handwriting style (see "Sea")
• The RI map/Skeleton Map are not tracings but clearly related
• The handwriting is clearly different on the Palmer and the RI maps with the exception of the three Sarah Kidd maps (see first post)
• the Sarah map's handwriting seem to be very similar to the RI map except the last "traced" map which is the same as the other Palmer maps

The different handwriting of the Sarah maps seem to me the red herring that could solve the outstanding issues - maybe some here has a good idea that explains this?

 

[Cryptid1990]

I recently came across another variant of the Skeleton Map in a 1986 book (Hermes Unveiled by Roy Norvill).

This version has longitude 431.30 E. This is very unlikely to have been drawn by Norvill (who does not state he drew it).

Compare to the 'classic' Skeleton Map:

 

[Bocaj]

I recently came across another variant of the Skeleton Map in a 1986 book (Hermes Unveiled by Roy Norvill).

This version has longitude 431.30 E. This is very unlikely to have been drawn by Norvill (who does not state he drew it).

View attachment 2266389

Compare to the 'classic' Skeleton Map:

View attachment 2266390

I can imagine that there is a market for the Palmer maps! As the originals have disappeared its not easy to verify if someone's offer is the real deal or not. Paradise for con-artists really.

 

[Randawg72]

The compass rose is unambiguously not something that would have appeared on a 17th century nautical chart.

Interesting. So a simple cross style compass "rose" was never used on any 17th century charts?
So in your expert opinion, this map of the Eastern US drawn by by Peter Lindstrom in 1691 must also be fake?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Hi Randawg72, if you look at the cross style compass rose that appears on several of the Captain Kidd maps there is a consistent clue that is often missed because the writer was being very devious. Regarding the China Sea map as always the compass cross is drawn in the bottom left corner on an angle, there is a very good secret reason for this which I will explain.

Using just two parts of the compass cross for instance the lower section pointing to the north and then at the centre of the cross use the right arm points to the east, this right angle was a devious way to draw a hidden right turn. This map was also deliberately drawn upside down to how Oak Island is usually drawn today, it's because in Captain Kidd's day Joudary Cove was the important site of the secret jetty where in coming treasure ships landed, it is still there where it is marked on the China Sea Map and some other maps. On that map north was falsely depicted and at the centre of the compass cross a right turn to what was depicted as the east was also a deliberately misleading ploy. The way to address this is to consider that on the China Sea map what direction is shown (from the anchorage in Joudary Cove) as North is actually South, and and the East is really West, confusing but true.
In reality it all points to the search area being located in the central valley area, or even further to the actual west side of Oak Island today. I hope this has given you food for thought. As I have always said no treasure was ever put in the Money pit (sand sump) or the surrounding area so the present dogmatic searchers are wasting their time and millions there, if they listened to me they would have recovered the treasure years ago.
Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

Interesting. So a simple cross style compass "rose" was never used on any 17th century charts?
So in your expert opinion, this map of the Eastern US drawn by by Peter Lindstrom in 1691 must also be fake?

17th and 18th-century map compasses were universally either elaborate ornate wind roses or if more simple designs still contained fleur-de-lis, feathered archer's arrows, or a similar detailed pointer for N rather than basic cross/arrow indicators and plain block letters (N, S, E, W) as seen in the Kidd-Palmer maps. The map you posted clearly contains a fleur-de-lis and no block letters.

Show me a compass from an authenticated 17th or 18th century map that looks like this:

It does not exist because the above basic compass design (with block lettering) came about later:

• The abstract line-and-triangle arrow only emerged in standard graphic design and technical drawing during the late 19th and early 20th centuries. In the 17th to 18th century, arrows were rendered with fleur-de-lis or fletching (feathers) as archer-style points.
• The hand-lettered labels ("N", "S", "E", "W") are modern block lettering. Historical 17th and 18th-century cartographers usually used copperplate engraving fonts or formal calligraphy (often ornate script or Roman capitals).

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Hi Randawg72, if you look at the cross style compass rose that appears on several of the Captain Kidd maps there is a consistent clue that is often missed because the writer was being very devious. Regarding the China Sea map as always the compass cross is drawn in the bottom left corner on an angle, there is a very good secret reason for this which I will explain.

Using just two parts of the compass cross for instance the lower section pointing to the north and then at the centre of the cross use the right arm points to the east, this right angle was a devious way to draw a hidden right turn. This map was also deliberately drawn upside down to how Oak Island is usually drawn today, it's because in Captain Kidd's day Joudary Cove was the important site of the secret jetty where in coming treasure ships landed, it is still there where it is marked on the China Sea Map and some other maps. On that map north was falsely depicted and at the centre of the compass cross a right turn to what was depicted as the east was also a deliberately misleading ploy. The way to address this is to consider that on the China Sea map what direction is shown (from the anchorage in Joudary Cove) as North is actually South, and and the East is really West, confusing but true.
In reality it all points to the search area being located in the central valley area, or even further to the actual west side of Oak Island today. I hope this has given you food for thought. As I have always said no treasure was ever put in the Money pit (sand sump) or the surrounding area so the present dogmatic searchers are wasting their time and millions there, if they listened to me they would have recovered the treasure years ago.
Oak Island Sage

Hi Randawg72, the point to also remember is that Captain Kidd was quite capable of drawing a more elaborate compass and putting it in a different place on the map, he did this with the Deadman Island map which was drawn the right way up and the compass pointed to the true north. There have been a crude attempts by someone devoid of integrity to cover up the compass originally drawn by Captain Kidd and replace it with another just to strengthen that sad persons personal theory.

What Captain Kidd was showing on the other maps (and carved on a drinking rummer) was the real way to locate the treasure lies hidden in the cross style compass rose, and on the China Sea map it is combined with the outside the legend. Captain Kidd could not do that with a more elaborate compass rose positioned anywhere on else on a map, I am sure there are many other people gifted with intuitive perception who have also spotted this.

The islands shape was not important as long as it contained a dot marking the anchorage in a curved bay and with the basic cross compass rose. This hidden clue has been staring right under peoples noses for years, I hope it is remembered that I told every one on this forum first.

Oak Island Sage