What's new

Captain Kidd did not bury treasure on Gardiner's Island

If the Quedagh Merchant was not burnt then the "Deadman Island" map signed by Captain Kidd becomes much more interesting.
You said it "If" and that's where I stop because she was found and I can see no argument on why it was not the QM. For the time being I take it as a fact.
Captain Kidd captured and renamed the Quedagh Merchant the "Adventure Prize" and he wrote this on his last Deadman Island treasure map. Kidd got over confident when he succeeded in getting the huge treasure to Oak Island, plus, he had the French passes that he was sure would clear him of any charge of piracy.
The one place where Kidd had powerful friends was at the Isle sf Saint Thomas (Danish) where he was held in very great esteem by the Danish People The Privateer had previously alerted those people (and others) to a terrifying threat, war with France had been declared. Every one must quickly spread the news and prepare for the imminent arrival of a powerful French invasion squadron. The carefully timed surprise top secret mission of the French was to capture the unaware Leeward Islands, then the whole of the Caribbean Sea where the news of the state of war with France had also not yet reached.

There are two possibilities to consider, one that if Captain Kidd were taken to find treasure on the Island of Saint Thomas the locals would either raise the money, or two, they would free him and arrange his escape. But the simple fact is that with a royal warrant for his arrest no amount of money in the whole world was going to save this previous war hero, he was now a doomed scapegoat.
Interesting part of Kidd's history. Didn't know it was Danish. Another piece of the puzzle.
Lord Bellomont had first coerced Captain Kidd into undertaking a Royal mission then he when a scandal came the former became very unpopular, and became ostracised both in the colonies and England. He complied with the Kings instruction to arrest Kidd and send back to England for trial. Bellomont did send the French Passes to England but they were 'mislaid'. Captain Kidd's farcical trial was so corrupt that at the time anyone who would swear in court that they had seen the French Passes would soon find themselves in very serious trouble. Captain Kidd's star witness Lord Bellomont conveniently died suddenly before the trial.
Captain Kidd was not convicted of piracy, he was convicted of murder, but he did not kill the mutinous gunner William Moore. The man recovered from the blow to the head when Kidd in a frustrated rage threw a wooded bucket at him, it was done to silence him when he was loudly inciting mutiny, and it knocked him out. In court Captain Kidd expressed deep regret over the blow which was not intended.
The ships cabin boy testified at the trial that the mutineer William Moore actually recovered but he died later of a fever that he had long been suffering with, many of the crew also died of it, his testimony was totally ignored. The ship's (coerced) doctor had to amend his original statement to save his own skin and he submitted false evidence like many others.
The trial was a travesty of 'justice'. No doubt about that. It painted Kidd as a pirate and to this day it is infinitely repeated. It also tainted his claim of the treasure as many here simply assume he lied to save his neck. If he was guilty then of being naive. To believe in the so called values of civilization. He paid with his neck. But if he is called a lair then where is the proof?
 
One thing I think everyone here can agree on, William Kidd was proverbially thrown under a Bus. He was made an example of by the powers scrambling to protect their reputations in the political power play of the Wigs and Tories.

Crow
 
One thing I think everyone here can agree on, William Kidd was proverbially thrown under a Bus. He was made an example of by the powers scrambling to protect their reputations in the political power play of the Wigs and Tories.

Crow
The secret partnership of Captain William Kidd and Captain Henry Every

A basic summery.

In July 1689 William Kidd was working as part of the crew on a twenty gunned French privateer called the Le Sainte Rose at Boa Vista, located on the West coast of Africa. The famous French Admiral Jean Du Casse sent out an urgent rallying secret message for all armed French ships in the area to join his assembled fleet at a secret location. The Admiral’s clandestine secret mission was to take a strong fleet (with many troops below decks) to make a surprise attack on the Leeward Islands and later the Caribbean Sea. The English and Danish (English allies) colonies there would naturally be totally unaware of the imminent state of war, and that the powerful French invasion squadron was already rapidly approaching across the South Atlantic Ocean with the full intention of spreading out capturing and then occupying several ports simultaneously.

As a prudent precaution the English and Dutch members on board the Le Sainte Rose were essentially enemies and were suddenly treated as prisoner’s because a state war with France was soon to be announced, but, they were not confined below deck. The 22- ship strong fleet attacked the English held Fort Charles by a land force comprised of armed seamen, and skeleton crews were left to guard the anchored ships. Captain Kidd organised a secret surprise coup, the England and Danish seamen armed with bailing pins used as clubs quickly overcame the French guards without a shot fired, and they allowed their former shipmates to swim to the nearest French ship. With a strong tail wind blowing they quietly hoisted sail and by cutting the straining anchor cable they rapidly escaped in a desperate action commonly known as to “Cut and run”.

Captain Kidd later successfully alerted the Leeward Islands and the news spread rapidly to the Caribbean Sea, and his swift action saved thousands of lives. Captain Kidd later joined (as a commissioned privateer) the defence squadron which was being rapidly assembled by Governor Christopher Codrington, he was the Commander in Chief of the English forces in the Caribbean Sea and the Leeward Islands.
In the ensuing battle for (the formerly French) island of St Martin’s the defending squadron was led by Colonel Thomas Henson. After a devastating battle they were about to be beaten when night fell. Captain Kidd personally proposed a do or die plan that relied on swift action and the element of surprise, it was unanimously agreed, it was a complete deviation from the standard two lines of battle that they were losing.

At the first glimmer of dawn the next day Captain Kidd’s ship actually rushed to the front to lead, with all guns run out he the swiftly charged silently into battle head on against the still sleeping French crews, this unexpected attack caused panic and their ships to retreat in confusion, consequently tales of Captain Kidd’s inspiring gallantry l spread to legendary status, and Governor Codrington mentioned Captain Kidd’s impressive valour in dispatches to England describing him as Quote, "A mighty Man".

Later on finally returning to his home port of New York in March 1691 Captain Kidd later lent his full assistance to Colonel Henry Sloughter, he supplied him with guns and ammunition to try and put down the Jacob Leister rebellion, and he was later handsomely paid for his valuable services. The officially appointed governor Colonel Ingoldsby arrived the next day and Leister immediately surrendered.

Captain Kidd’s exploits in serving king and country became stuff of legend, 1/ in stealing a French war ship, then 2/ in alerting The Virgins Islands and Caribbean Sea to the terrifying threat of invasion, thereby saving thousands of lives. 3/ then in leading the small English squadron to the famous victory over the vastly superior French force and saving several hundred more lives, and 4/ later in New York suppressing a rebellion. It should have all earned him a knighthood and the king was certainly kept well informed of his exploits in dispatches.

In 1690 the Scotsman Captain Kidd was still wallowing in his fame as a renowned war hero at the Island of Saint Thomas, with his Danish friends who held him in great esteem. Before returning to his home port of New York, he was soon to meet with Captain Henry Every who wished to make him a business proposition. Later in Campeachy Bay which is located in the great Bay of Mexico, Captain Kidd agreed became the secret partner of Captain Henry Every who’s own story is amazing, and he was the mastermind behind an amazing covert operation and the secret construction of the unique mine beneath Oak Island.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To set the record straight Captain William Kidd was NOT convicted of piracy, he was convicted and hanged for the false charge of wilfully murdering the mutinous gunner William Moore, of which he was totally innocent. Moore was only temporally stunned by a blow to his head when Kidd hurled a wooden bucket at him to silence his loud attempts to instigate a full scale mutiny. Many sea captains felt that Captain Kidd’s action was fully justified in suppressing a mutiny by any means, it was a serious hanging offence.

The ships cabin boy (who they forgot to coerce) nervously testified in court that William Moore actually recovered from the blow that knock him out, and that he was already very ill during the incident. Also that Moore finally died several days later of a deadly fever like many of the other crewmen on board. The anxious cabin boy’s submitted testimony was considered to be frivolous by the honourable presiding judge and therefore it was adjudged to be inadmissible.

Oak Island Sage
 
Last edited:
In 1690 the Scotsman Captain Kidd was still wallowing in his fame as a renowned war hero at the Island of Saint Thomas, with his Danish friends who held him in great esteem. Before returning to his home port of New York, he was soon to meet with Captain Henry Every who wished to make him a business proposition. Later in Campeachy Bay which is located in the great Bay of Mexico, Captain Kidd agreed became the secret partner of Captain Henry Every who’s own story is amazing, and he was the mastermind behind an amazing covert operation and the secret construction of the unique mine beneath Oak Island.
While it is a nice story I would like to know which part of it is based in fact and which is speculation. And do not get me wrong again: speculation is an important part but like climbing a rock you need 3 points secured in fact so you can advance (speculated). So far there is only one document that is linking both men together - the "Avery letter" which is sourced from one 'WK'. I still have to see any other to support that theory (which is my own one as well but I try to avoid to fall deep so I am very much insisting on facts to advance here)
 
While it is a nice story I would like to know which part of it is based in fact and which is speculation. And do not get me wrong again: speculation is an important part but like climbing a rock you need 3 points secured in fact so you can advance (speculated). So far there is only one document that is linking both men together - the "Avery letter" which is sourced from one 'WK'. I still have to see any other to support that theory (which is my own one as well but I try to avoid to fall deep so I am very much insisting on facts to advance here)
I found an archive of Oak Island Sage's old website c. 2000. He has been spouting the same idle speculation and evidence-free assertions for decades. Not only does he not provide a shred of evidence but there is compelling evidence against his belief Kidd set foot on Oak Island. The places Kidd visited can be reconstructed and mapped based on historical sources that document his voyages on the Quedagh Merchant, Adventure Galley, etc. He did not travel to Oak Island and no historian has claimed he did (you only find this claim on pseudohistorical sites).

1778175752975.webp
 
Last edited:
I found an archive of Oak Island Sage's old website c. 2000. He has been spouting the same idle speculation and evidence-free assertions for decades. Not only does he not provide a shred of evidence but there is compelling evidence against his belief Kidd set foot on Oak Island. The places Kidd visited can be reconstructed and mapped based on historical sources that document his voyages on the Quedagh Merchant, Adventure Galley, etc. He did not travel to Oak Island and no historian has claimed he did (you only find this claim on pseudohistorical sites).

View attachment 2252874
This is what I fear most: that a valid hypothesis - a connection between Kidd's claims and Avery's treasure - is tainted by this kind of runaway speculation. I do really hesitate to continue this path but all facts I see so far point to the validity of that connection but of course not that bottomless pit with all included fantasies. Centuries! of Kidd related fantasies have so much muddied the water that no one will believe the truth anymore.
 
This is what I fear most: that a valid hypothesis - a connection between Kidd's claims and Avery's treasure - is tainted by this kind of runaway speculation. I do really hesitate to continue this path but all facts I see so far point to the validity of that connection but of course not that bottomless pit with all included fantasies. Centuries! of Kidd related fantasies have so much muddied the water that no one will believe the truth anymore.
It is interesting to note from the map of Kidd's voyages that Kidd did call into Ascension Island, or at least past it. There could have been a chance of Kidd encountering some of the ex crew members of the Fancy. But being a pirate hunter at the time, perhaps some of Avery's ex-crew members kept quiet? That needs deeper research in that respect.

The legend of Captain Kidd's treasure often leads to unsubstantiated claims connecting him to various locations globally, but Ascension Island is not recognized by historians as a location associated with him.

Crow
 
It is interesting to note from the map of Kidd's voyages that Kidd did call into Ascension Island, or at least past it. There could have been a chance of Kidd encountering some of the ex crew members of the Fancy. But being a pirate hunter at the time, perhaps some of Avery's ex-crew members kept quiet? That needs deeper research in that respect.

The legend of Captain Kidd's treasure often leads to unsubstantiated claims connecting him to various locations globally, but Ascension Island is not recognized by historians as a location associated with him.

Crow
I can't find any reference of Kidd visiting that island and I doubt any of Avery's crew would still be there at the time as was uninhabited and without much vegetation. Mostly visited for its turtles which were excellent to preserve for the long sea travel back over the Atlantic.
 
I found an archive of Oak Island Sage's old website c. 2000. He has been spouting the same idle speculation and evidence-free assertions for decades. Not only does he not provide a shred of evidence but there is compelling evidence against his belief Kidd set foot on Oak Island. The places Kidd visited can be reconstructed and mapped based on historical sources that document his voyages on the Quedagh Merchant, Adventure Galley, etc. He did not travel to Oak Island and no historian has claimed he did (you only find this claim on pseudohistorical sites).

View attachment 2252874
 
I found an archive of Oak Island Sage's old website c. 2000. He has been spouting the same idle speculation and evidence-free assertions for decades. Not only does he not provide a shred of evidence but there is compelling evidence against his belief Kidd set foot on Oak Island. The places Kidd visited can be reconstructed and mapped based on historical sources that document his voyages on the Quedagh Merchant, Adventure Galley, etc. He did not travel to Oak Island and no historian has claimed he did (you only find this claim on pseudohistorical sites).

View attachment 2252874
Hi Cryptid 1990, if as you claim you have read my book I suggest you read again page 119, I personally have never once claimed that the Quedagh Merchant (which Kidd renamed the Adventure Prize) ever went to New York. The Deadman Island map was examined and authenticated by handwriting experts who declared that it was definitely drawn by Captain William Kidd, it clearly reveals in his own handwriting that the Adventure Prize was taken there and it anchored in Joudary Cove.

If you want proof of anything I have written I suggest you go look for it yourself, instead of waiting for me to hand you things on a plate.
An argument occurs when two people with opposing opinions think they are right,:pain10: that doesn't apply here, in this case - I know I'm right.;D

Oak Island Sage
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom