You Think Dowsing Controversies Are New???

[Carl-NC]

Good lord Carl, you were nearly there and failed to complete the mental connection to a target. You were always a little soft on dowsers in your critisism as you always had nagging doubts as to why you failed.
At least with those black boxes,with your training you can at least open them up and find out why they didnt work. You cant open up your head.
No offence meant.

None taken! I find nothing wrong if folks want to bend some L-rods and go about dowsing. It's just intuition (and, sometimes, raw luck), but maybe some folks are more comfortable using dowsing rods to reflect their intuition.

I do find something very wrong when folks make horribly overpriced dowsing devices, which include window dressing that does absolutely nothing, and make claims of these devices that are blatantly false. That's why I focus on this aspect of dowsing... I find their behaviour to be immoral and possibly criminal.

- Carl

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Af, no one can prove anything to you. "...and then fail to locate anything?" You didn't try yet you know the out come? You have a conclusion on a matter you haven't yet studied. Or rather an outcome on an expeirament you won't perform.

I actually intended this to be in the form of a hypothetical question. I should have phrased it as "What if I went out and tried dowsing and found nothing?"

It's been said that you have to have a feel for dowsing, or a faith in it, or a certain mind-set, and if I don't have this, and dowsing didn't work for me, then I could honestly report that dowsing does not work because it didn't work for me.

Now, Carl has said that he has tried dowsing and various other LLAD devices (sorry to borrow this from you, Carl; consider it a homage.) and he has reported that they didn't work for him. And you argue with him that he didn't do it correctly. Now, he's tried this with several other devices as well, spending lots of his own money doing it, and had the same results. But you don't take his word for it? Why would you take mine if I attempted it and failed?

 

[oldman]

SWR, I noticed that also! BP

 

[aarthrj3811]

I see a lot of agreement on this thread between the two sides. Weird things happen when everyone speaks the truth....I don't know if everyone can Dowse but I do know that what's in your mind is a big part of it. I don't know if Carl can train his mind to Dowse or not. I don't even know if that is what some of use have done. Don't give me all that garbage about Scientific Facts and Laws as I have been on this Planet for a while and witnessed them changing almost daily.

I done care if you have to stand on one foot and howl at the moon to Dowse. If you can't except that fact, tough luck. Don't insult me as it will do you no good and show that your not sure of what you are saying. I have yet to hear from anyone on this forum both Pro or Con who can answer even half the Questions that people have about Dowsing.

Even when you have learned to Dowse you still have to practice. It is my belief that Signals both Natural and Man Made enter your body through the feet. There is then a reaction between the signal, the body and the mind that causes the Rods to close. If you reject this theory guess what---it will not happen. If you can locate unknown targets most everytime do not think about my theories and keep on using your methods.

If you think that the Sub-Conscious mind can't be trained you are fooling yourselve. I have given a method of training the sub-conscious mind to Dowse so give it a try...Art

 

[digman]

I totally agree with you.
Perhaps some people do not want to dowse and they insist doing so, I wonder why... ? Possibly they might have some kind of interest, or benefit, who knows...

But as you may well know, dowsing controversies are not new, they are as old as dowsing is traced back in history. Nearly 500 years ago, people were thrown into fire for such things. Church believed it was demon - devilish thing.... Well... some people in this forum still see it that way !!!

Although something old, in the past, it was the only tool for finding water, etc. And we all very well know that we are depended on air and water.
As MaryMarie Satterlee correctly places it ''Dowsing is an ancient and honored art. It has many detractors but it lives on and even grows in popularity''. http://www.diviningmind.com/dowsing-classes.html
Digman.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello everyone,
I get a feeling I will regret this, but here goes....

In my opinion, dowsing is not some kind of mental trick nor a special ability. I have a theory of why it SEEMS to work (even though it doesn't work 100% of the time) that is based on electricity. I have posted this elsewhere in T-net, but here is my theory.

You are carrying a pair of electrical conductors, whether a green stick or a pair of brass brazing rods (which is what I tried) as you walk around. All water and all metals have an electrical charge; (this charge exerts an electrical field and a magnetic field around it) as you pass over the body of water or electric wires buried underground, the two lightweight conductors in your hands react exactly the way two thin conductors WOULD act if passed over a source of electrical current, they are first attracted to it. They cross, and touch. As soon as they have picked up the identical charge as that in the water source (or metal) they are repelled from each other, often pointing in opposite directions (usually taken as the direction of a stream of water, which is in keeping with the electrical charge within the water) because electrical charges behave very much like magnetism - a positive charge repels a positive, a negative repels a negative.

It is a highly imperfect tool for hunting for things, because you get the identical reaction whether you are passing your "L-rods" over a buried electric wire or over water so you cannot differentiate what is putting out the electrical field that the rods have encountered. Worse yet, there is no indication of how deep, though there are a couple of ways used by dowsers in my opinion they are really guessing, based on what sure looks like electrical reactions. Nothing mystical, psychical, no special abilities or mentalist involved, simple laws of physics. If the rods are not held loosely enough, or the electrical field is dampened by interfering non-conductors, or if there is even much of a breeze, it just won't work right.

Now I hope I have not ruffed too many feathers with my own personal theory of how dowsing appears to work, but it is simple to try it out for yourselves - just take a pair of L-rods (even bent coat hangers will work) and use the methods described elsewhere (hold them loosely, just slightly tilted downhill in front of you but just barely) while you carry them over an electric motor that is turned on; then try it over a water hose or pipe full of water and you get the same result - which is perfectly in keeping with the natural phenomenon of how conductors should react with electricity. Think of those old demonstrations in the schools with the Van deGraaf generators or Tesla coils, upon which a stack of tinfoil plates would be set - first the plates are attracted to the electrical charge, as the plates picked up the identical charge they are repelled from each other and fly off one by one. We are only seeing a similar reaction with dowsing. I don't think your mind or mental state has anything to do with it, unless your mind is making you hold the L-rods so tight they cannot react to the weak electrical fields around water, metal etc.

The practice is so old that we don't know when it was first done; some point to the story of Moses tapping the rock with his staff (and water poured forth) as a possible example of dowsing, which probably seemed like a miracle and was impressive to folks who had never heard of or seen it done. It doesn't work all the time, for many reasons as we have touched on - but it is a harmless pursuit at costs little to try out. I guess if there were some way to differentiate (with accuracy) between metals and water, I would sure do it myself but as far as I know, no good way of differentiating is known nor an accurate way to estimate depth.

I did not believe dowsing worked at all, until I saw it done finding water lines, and my friend showed me how to do it, which led me to investigate just how this might work. There are theories of imperceptible muscle movements, magnetism, mind control, ESP etc but I don't think I have any special talent and the electrical theory will "fit" with the evidence.

Oroblanco

 

[Bill]

Then how does map dowsing work "electrically"? I too, do not mean to ruffle feathers.
Bill

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Oroblanco....I think the Rods react much like you state. A little different for each person. The only thing that I am positive about is that they work. If I did not get results I would not search with the rods. I don't have to know how they work to use them. People sure like to fuss over a set of dumb rods. They are a TOOL that I use along with many other TOOLS...Art

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello Bill, Art and everyone,

How does map dowsing work? Boy there I AM stumped. I have never tried it myself, probably due to never having seen it done and don't know how it IS done. I mean I guess I know, you hold a plumb bob over a map while you concentrate on what you are seeking right? Then you have to interpret how the pendulum swings or rotates, and again I have no idea how to interpret this so don't have a clue as to how it works. I have a good friend who seems to be really good at it, (a fellow member of T-net here) but I don't know what the trick of it is.

If I were to try to venture some kind of 'wild-arsed-scientific-guess' as to how it MIGHT be working, then I would point to the experiments done by the US military in Remote Viewing, only you would be using a map and pendulum instead of pencil and paper - in this case then it IS a power of the mind which is poorly understood - IF that idea is how map-dowsing is working..... If that IS how it works, then it would take practice and plenty of concentration to become good at it. Heck you know, this might be a fun experiment to try!

Why not have a friend or your spouse take some object (smallish but not TOO small) and hide it somewhere in your yard, then draw up a map of the yard and try the pendulum. Maybe I will try this experiment some day for fun, if it works or doesn't I will post my results here. (Probably won't work for me, not enough brain power! )

Good point Art, it really doesn't matter exactly how it works when it works! May I ask if you have found an effective way to tell if your "hit" or strike is on water or on metals? I have tried one method of estimating depth to water, (holding the rods one over the other, at an angle and counting the time it takes for them to align) which seemed to be fairly accurate but not that good.

Oroblanco

 

[aarthrj3811]

I have never tried water as I have not found the need to. I know people who count how long the rods stay crossed to size metal objects. It will not work for me. On metal targets I stand where my rods cross and slowly walk away. The rods will open. When they close to a vee I stop. The distance that I have traveled is how deep it is. It seems that objects emit a signal that comes to the surface at a 45° angle....Every one should give dowsing a try. If you can locate your sewer line, water lines, and underground electric lines you may be able to save yourself some money. I know I have....Art

 

[Bill]

Oroblanco,
You are very astute my friend. Everything that you have written about your interpretation of map dowsing is correct. I think I should know a little, since I teach map dowsing. Give it a try.
Bill

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you Bill for the kind words! To be honest I was really guessing though, and hit lucky for once. It just seems that there are some striking similarities between the remote viewing used by our military and map dowsing - and the military has openly admitted that the remote viewing WORKS, even though they don't know exactly how. So since both remote viewing and map dowsing appear to be very similar phenomena, it seems fairly safe to assume that the map dowsing will likely be correct on about the same percentages as the military got with the remote viewing.

That seems a logical assumption - so the accuracy of the dowsing would depend to some degree on the skill of the dowser - and the military remote viewers were able to attain accuracy rates of 65% and even 80%!!!! I don't know the average accuracy of map dowsing, but would not be surprised if the rates were very similar or even better as you already have a map of the location to search, which the remote viewers were never told.

I will give it a try or three, though I have no idea how to interpret the reactions of the pendulum. I have a good plumb bob, will that work for a pendulum? May I ask where you give the classes? Just curious at this point, but if I get lucky with my experiments..... you may have a new student!

Thanks again, I hope you have a great day!
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Bill]

I was asked by the Admin. of Thunting Forum to post map dowsing lessons.
Bill

 

[Sandsted]

I've finally been able to come back on here, I've had computer difficulties for many months now.

I haven't read all the replies on this thread, but concerning Oroblanco's theory...a viking researcher by the name of Orval Friedrich had a theory such as this. He's a retired Lutheran minister and refuses to call these rods "dowsing rods" because of the meanings that are often associated with them. He reffers to them as "Electromagnetic Sensors" or oftenly just sensors. I call them by these names sometimes but I do not believe that it is electricity that governs this art. I've used dowsing successfully off a picture. I do believe the whole process of dowsing is completely scientific, but I'm not exactly sure how that works.

Anyway, I've adopted the view that it is subconcious movements in the wrist that cause the rod to move. This is the same with a willow stick or a pendulum.

 

[Oroblanco]

Welcome back Sandsted! I can sure empathize, had problems with my PC for months on end and lost most everything on it, technology is great when it works but extremely aggravating when it doesn't!

I am interested in Freidrich's theory, is there anything online of his? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Sandsted]

I don't think so, but he does have four books published. The books that he writes are concerning Viking research. The first book there is a lot of errors in it. Friedrich's dowsing isn't always right. But anyway, I have the first three books. I believe in his fourth book he goes a little indepth on his dowsing practice. He talks about it a little in his third book, but this was written at the time that he was just beginning to really develope our style of dowsing.

I've never met him personally. I have met many others concerning the same subject and this is where I've learned from and am currently developing my dowsing.

God natt,

Sandsted

 

[Oroblanco]

Thanks for the tip, I will keep an eye open for the books. My own 'theory' isn't something tested by science either, just based on having had some training in electricity and electronics and noting how dowsing seems to work.

The map dowsing seems to be a very different kettle of fish and I think is not based on electricity but on powers of the mind which are not understood well. I have not yet attempted it but plan on trying a few experiments one of these fine fall days!
Oroblanco

 

[oldman]

Bill, Map dowsing work! It is like gambling 50/50 chance. I have dowsed many Polaroids for people and even in the filed of maybe targets that map dowsers have dowsed and they were all off. Take notice to this: Send a map to a few different map dowsers and see what you get back. None of them will show subject target in the same location.

Oroblanco, what you have written on Dowsing is the most accurate discription of dowsing, yes it is your interperation but you are so close! And the reason you don't know about map dowsing is evidence their is no one procedure to map dowsing! I guess you could say map dowsing is a mind game!!!! Bill

 

[Sandsted]

I've used map dowsing quite successfully. Different viking artifacts I have dated correctly using pictures. I use map dowsing a lot for studying ships because they are often times very large and using map dowsing one can find the approximate area where one is and see them sort of from a birds eye few to see them in relation to other ships and habitation buidings and such.

It is not as accurate as dowsing right on the land because the map is smaller. 1 inch may be 20 feet, one point may be the size of a car, you can't say exactly where an object is. But it is a useful tool for narrowing down your test site.

 

[oldman]

Sandsted, right on, the field dowsing i did for some people versea what the map dowser did most of the map dowsers wer off 1/4 or greater! There was one guy I did field work for and one map dowser had the target in the SW direction of the true target 1/2 mile off the other map dowser had the target in a N direct 1/4 mile off and the other map dowser had the target in a NE direct from the real target and it was 1/3 of a mile off. When we got to the real gold target it turned out to be a remmant target meaning it had been removed. I believe the map dowser were mearl picking up the static charge of the removed target. But with all that said it did put me into and area so we could determine the true reading of the target. Like Dell says map dowsing is a good starting place! Bill