Jesse James Artifact Found in SE Oklahoma. I need all the information I can get.

[Sides]

UPDATE

Please. As much info as possible. The metal scratches bright silver. Possibly Lead. It is heavy for its size as well. Dimensions below.

4in x 2 3/8in

1in wide varying slightly

100mm x 60mm

width slants from 22mm to 27mm

 

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[crabstang44]

PS... this is something that if by morning there is no clue to what it is... I will dive into helping this one along.

This IS a piece that deserves a serious dedication to research.

DO NOT... REPEAT... DO NOT ... clean it... try and open it... scratch it again... nothing.

Handle with care ... and if you have some gloves use em.

Also... DONT let anyone you don't trust even know about it.

OR clumsy fingers hold it.

IF it turns out to be a kids toy or something "else"... it would / will STILL be worth something.

Not the "mega"... but a "minor".

Take heed.

I agree this may be an amazing discovery, does look like 2 lead halves melted together, there may be something incredible inside. But what worries me is you just joined to post it and havent responded much orr told how or when it was found and NEED more pics

 

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[Sides]

I think you have found a antique toy treasure box. Likely buried by kids playing many years ago----just my opinion

It's completely solid. It isn't a box. It looks to be molded for a purpose no one can figure out. All I know is it's not a toy. It's very heavy for the size.

 

[RW]

It looks like all of the copper work was suspended by copper pins while being cast into molten lead then snipped off and polished even. Lots of work to be a toy. With the exact weight, the measurements you posted (3 inches long and 1.70 inches wide. .80 inches thick) someone with better math abilities than I could determine if a hollow center exists (holding the key to...).

 

[crabstang44]

It's completely solid. It isn't a box. It looks to be molded for a purpose no one can figure out. All I know is it's not a toy. It's very heavy for the size.

Need pics from all sides and more info

 

[Sides]

PS... this is something that if by morning there is no clue to what it is... I will dive into helping this one along.

This IS a piece that deserves a serious dedication to research.

DO NOT... REPEAT... DO NOT ... clean it... try and open it... scratch it again... nothing.

Handle with care ... and if you have some gloves use em.

Also... DONT let anyone you don't trust even know about it.

OR clumsy fingers hold it.

IF it turns out to be a kids toy or something "else"... it would / will STILL be worth something.

Not the "mega"... but a "minor".

Take heed.

Unfortunately, I'm thinking this will be here in the morning. Please help me!! Lol you and I are on the same page completely. I do believe it is lead btw.

 

[Sides]

I agree this may be an amazing discovery, does look like 2 lead halves melted together, there may be something incredible inside. But what worries me is you just joined to post it and haven't responded much or told how or when it was found and NEED more pics

Please do not worry. I got this from my father who passed. We are on the same page I assure you. I'd prefer not to do tests on it at all. I was hoping the right eyes would come across it and finally let me know what it is. I am the only person on Earth that knows the location it was found and it's prior positioning. I'm seeking as much information on the item as possible. If you're interested and rather have a private conversation, you're welcome to send me a private message.

 

[ARC]

I apologize... I am very curious... but in the middle of a movie... and am just too shot out tonight...

Besides I did do a few quickie searches for things like lead toys... etc.

Nothing came up... no surprise.

There are many great minds on Tnet... And I am sure some wheels are turning as we speak.

There is hope ... be patient.

Relax... and just know this... with a smile on your face...

You found something REALLY frigging cool.

And just maybe...

Maybe...

Real History... TIED to someone famous... errr edit TO 2 "someone's". heh

Far out huh

 

[RW]

So can we get the precise weight?

 

[Sides]

I apologize... I am very curious... but in the middle of a movie... and am just too shot out tonight...

Besides I did do a few quickie searches for things like lead toys... etc.

Nothing came up... no surprise.

There are many great minds on Tnet... And I am sure some wheels are turning as we speak.

There is hope ... be patient.

Relax... and just know this... with a smile on your face...

You found something REALLY frigging cool.

And just maybe...

Maybe...

Real History... TIED to someone famous... errr edit TO 2 "someone's". heh

Far out huh

Haha yes. I appreciate it. Keep in touch and feel free to send me a private message if needed.

 

[arrow86]

Interesting ... pics of all sides would help

 

[Tnmountains]

It may be my eyes but Jesse seems to be spelled Jessie ? Looks to have an "i" in it. Having poured a lot of lead I do know the item could be laid on its side and the letters brazed onto it. May be why some of the lettering under magnification seems to be weak, Would be stronger if it was all cast at the same time. ( Notice how crisp the lines are on a solid cast 3 ringer of the same era are).
But they did a lot of brazing back then so it was old technology. Interesting item your Dad found.

 

[Sides]

It looks like all of the copper work was suspended by copper pins while being cast into molten lead then snipped off and polished even. Lots of work to be a toy. With the exact weight, the measurements you posted (3 inches long and 1.70 inches wide. .80 inches thick) someone with better math abilities than I could determine if a hollow center exists (holding the key to...).

Those were the old dimensions. I apologize for the confusions. The UPDATED dimensions are below.

4in x 2 3/8inch

1 inch wide around varying slightly 1 inch wide

100mm x 60mm

width slants from 22mm to 27mm

 

[GoDeep]

Do you have pictures of the other 3 sides? Cool find.

 

[Sides]

It looks like all of the copper work was suspended by copper pins while being cast into molten lead then snipped off and polished even. Lots of work to be a toy. With the exact weight, the measurements you posted (3 inches long and 1.70 inches wide. .80 inches thick) someone with better math abilities than I could determine if a hollow center exists (holding the key to...).

I believe it is lead. Although I'm not positive. Also, the updated dimensions are below.

4in x 2 3/8inch

1 inch wide around varying slightly 1 inch wide

100mm x 60mm

width slants from 22mm to 27mm

 

[GoDeep]

It may be my eyes but Jesse seems to be spelled Jessie ? Looks to have an "i" in it.

Yes, the Jesse is spelled incorrectly as Jessie. (well spelled incorrectly if they meant to spell the outlaw Jesse James name)

 

[Red-Coat]

What an intriguing thing. I would agree it looks like lead and has some age to it. The inlays appear to be copper wire but surely someone must have cleaned them up at some time after it was “unearthed”. Otherwise, why are they so untarnished versus the rather more oxidised lead? Or was it wrapped in/contained in something when it was unearthed? It doesn’t look like it was moulded as two halves, but who knows? Does it rattle?

It would of course have been much easier to make it from lead than anything else. Since it’s a regular geometric shape and you have now provided the dimensions, as already said, if you were to provide a precise weight (ideally in grams) it would be relatively straightforward to determine if its solid lead or not. One other question. Is the weight of the thing an exact number of ounces or very close to an exact number?

I wouldn’t pay much attention to the backwards ‘N’ or the misspelling of Jesse. The piece has been cast from a mould on which the letters were incusely cut. It’s a common mistake on artisanal hand-made moulds like that to misjudge the mirror-effect that the cast piece will show… and it’s almost always the letter ‘N’ that trips people up. Also, if the date is contemporary then standards of literacy and spelling were not high in those times.

Another question is what might be the relevance of the 1872 date (if that is the date)? The significant events for the James-Younger gang in that year were that they robbed the Bank of Columbia in Kentucky and the Kansas City Exposition Ticket Office in Missouri. Shots were fired on both occasions but more in the Kentucky robbery (both from and towards the gang) rather than mostly in the air by the gang only as was the case in Missouri.

Wouldn’t it be amazing if someone was able to collect enough lead slugs from the Kentucky robbery to mould that thing as a souvenir? Too much to hope for. But maybe someone (falsely) claimed they collected enough lead to do that… in the same kind of way that souvenir playing cards with holes shot through them by Annie Oakley and relics from the Wounded Knee Massacre were hopelessly overclaimed.

Do keep us posted on anything else you learn.

 

[Tnmountains]

Yes, the Jesse is spelled incorrectly as Jessie. (well spelled incorrectly if they meant to spell the outlaw Jesse James name)

That right there would eliminate authenticity but does not mean it is not period.

 

[RW]

I believe it is lead. Although I'm not positive. Also, the updated dimensions are below.

4in x 2 3/8inch

1 inch wide around varying slightly 1 inch wide

100mm x 60mm

width slants from 22mm to 27mm

If I did the math right and if it is made of lead it should weigh 2 pounds if solid (seems too light?). If it weighs significantly less, it probably has a void.

 

[GoDeep]

I wouldn’t pay much attention to the backwards ‘N’ or the misspelling of Jesse.

.6% of the female pop. in 1872 were named "Jessie". With a US population in 1872 of 38,000,000, approx. half female, that's 114,000 females named Jessie, so we can't say it's a mis-spelling.

If one is looking for historical accuracy and to properly identify an artifact, one must certainly take into account the spelling. We can't dismiss it out of hand just to make it fit a narrative of being the outlaw Jesse James.

With the Surname James, being common, it is actually more likely this is a homemade artifact/gift made by or given to Frank James and his wife Jessie James, in the year 1872, honoring their union.

 

[Sides]

It may be my eyes but Jesse seems to be spelled Jessie ? Looks to have an "i" in it. Having poured a lot of lead I do know the item could be laid on its side and the letters brazed onto it. May be why some of the letterings under magnification seems to be weak, Would be stronger if it was all cast at the same time. ( Notice how crisp the lines are on a solid cast 3 ringer of the same era are).
But they did a lot of brazing back then so it was old technology. Interesting item your Dad found.

At first, I thought the same thing as well. After further inspection, it seems as if the E fell apart and slid to its current position. The J in "James" curls back on itself as well in the same direction. Towards the end most of the letters seem to be getting smaller in width towards that direction hinting at the item being molded at an angle. The "N" seems to be in reverse in "FRANK" which is also consistent with the Bucket contract.