Question for dowsers

[aarthrj3811]

Sorry, no other shoe to drop. End of experiment. Perhaps the dowser I'm talking with will try some of my suggestions, and I'll have more to post later. Probably not.

Hey Carl…You may want to tell the new dowser to read this form. There is a lot of information that may tell him what is happening. He is the one that has to decide if he wants to proceed with his dowsing efforts. You and I can’t tell him what is in his best interest as that is his choice….Art

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Dell…..Does it seem strange that people who claim to live on the west coast don’t post after the Prime Time TV shows start on the east coast….Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Dowsing is about target discrimination. What to heck does tossing tennis balls out randomly have to do with finding discriminated targets. Who, besides Carl, would think finding Junk metal with a metal detector near a tennis ball was an interesting experiment

The same experiment can be applied to discriminated targets.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hi gang. Trying to catch up here.

Dell & Art, I see that you took exception to my examples in my "likely spots" post.

I'm trying to figure out how to spell this out, so that you will understand: Some places are just likely to begin with, to have SOMETHING, to SOME degree, in a given area. Like: I'm in CA along the coast. Where I'm at, the geology is not right for natural gold to occur. But if I were to go to the sierra nevadas, the geological formations are right for gold to occur. There are vast portions of the Sierras where, for miles around, there are no spots that are devoid of gold, even if just in trace form. Ie.: not worth mining, but, if you processed enough soil, you WOULD get specks, at least.

I heard of a dowser who would go to such a gold producing region, stop where his rods crossed, and then dig, sluice, and process. Even if he got nothing but a few specks/flakes after moving massive quantities of material, he would tell you "the rods pointed me to those flakes". Can you see now what I'm talking about? How does he know that the same effort 30 yards away might not produce the same results?

Sure, neither the md'r or the dowser would waste time in mountains that are known for having NO gold. I'm just saying that when either one is in mountains that DO historically have gold, you have to have some bench test to know if you're getting random results (simply because, given enough time and energy, certain areas WILL eventually have something), or better than random results.

Hope that makes sense. That's what Carl's tennis ball test is about: Are dowsing results random, or better than random?

 

[aarthrj3811]

I heard of a dowser who would go to such a gold producing region, stop where his rods crossed, and then dig, sluice, and process. Even if he got nothing but a few specks/flakes after moving massive quantities of material, he would tell you "the rods pointed me to those flakes". Can you see now what I'm talking about? How does he know that the same effort 30 yards away might not produce the same results?

I hear that story all the time from the skeptics..,.Have you read where any dowser has made that claim….Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

I'm trying to figure out how to spell this out, so that you will understand: Some places are just likely to begin with, to have SOMETHING, to SOME degree, in a given area. Like: I'm in CA along the coast. Where I'm at, the geology is not right for natural gold to occur. But if I were to go to the sierra nevadas, the geological formations are right for gold to occur. There are vast portions of the Sierras where, for miles around, there are no spots that are devoid of gold, even if just in trace form. Ie.: not worth mining, but, if you processed enough soil, you WOULD get specks, at least.

I think you should post this under Nugget Hunting or Dredging/panning. I think their replies would not be as nice as ours are....Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Art, I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean by suggesting I post that statement on a nugget forum. Have I posted something incorrect, regarding the locations where mother nature's gold is found? If you go down to microscopic enough pieces, heck, there is even gold freely swirling in the ocean waters (trace microscopic particles that come out of river mouths, and are just part of the mineral content that makes up ocean water. People on the beaches where I'm at (hundreds of miles from the sierras) used to use mercury on the opean beaches to get gold dust out of the sand. So when I say there's portions of the sierras (or other gold producing regions) that are likely to have gold, IF you processed enough of it, this is probably true of many areas.

Dell, the friend I give as an example, who can just "look at the landscape of where he's at in the Sacramento foothills, and tell you the most likely place to find gold", is drawing from many years of research on how gold comes down, in ancient times, from veins, and finds its way to collection points (crevices, or crevices from streambeds that no longer exist, etc...). So I suppose it is possible for a dowser, who is also familiar with the likely places to find gold, will be subconsciously led (or "dowsed") to those very same likley spots?

I guess what it boils down to, is can a good dowser out-perform the odds. The odds of the most skilled hunch-player (as in the case of the example of my nuggett hunting friend). If you could, then I'd be interested. But the minute "we go there", we're talking about stage double blind tests. And that's been addressed in other threads :P

If you've gotten treasures Dell, I would be interested in knowing the particulars (if you don't mind). How many gold coins have you found? Or silver coin caches? Are they free from any cross-claims of random odds? (ie.: you didn't dig 100 dry holes first attributing them to sun spots or magnets?) And not attributable to "pinpointing it with a metal detector"? (barring a mere few foot), and not in a spot so durn likely, that it was inevitable that you would find something (ie.:like the guy who dowses a park for coins, and presto! there was a clad dime w/in 5 ft. of where the rods crossed!).

 

[aarthrj3811]

So when I say there's portions of the sierras (or other gold producing regions) that are likely to have gold, IF you processed enough of it, this is probably true of many areas.

Your right about that Tom…There is Micro Gold every where up there. You will see huge holes up there where no gold was found. Every one here seems to think is all you have to do is walk out there and dig anywhere and you have gold. There is money in Micro-Gold but it is a pain to process it. First you have to have a way to find its location and a way to tell when you have dug it up. You can not see Micro gold with you eyes. Even when you are processing it you will not see how much you have until it is caught in the mercury.

I know how it comes down the mountain from the veins and when it gets in the rivers and streams I know how it gets to where it is found. When my rods tell me I am standing on gold I dig until my rods tell me I have it all in my bucket or pan. I then go to the next spot where my rods will again cross. I have had days when I have not located anything. I have had weeks where I dug all day everyday and when I went home there were still spots to be dug.

When you are digging gold and the material is wet you can smell the gold before you get to it. Sure the fact that I know a lot about gold makes me more likely to find it. This random chance stuff is a bunch of B/S from people that have never conducted a search for gold….

I suggested that you post in the Nugget and Dredging sections and see what they tell you…I think it be about what I am telling you only not as polite…Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

So I suppose it is possible for a dowser, who is also familiar with the likely places to find gold, will be subconsciously led (or "dowsed") to those very same likley spots?

Your still hung up on the subconscious mind….Does your subconscious mind control where you walk or what you do ? The subconscious can be trained. Part of the definition of the subconscious mind is the following….Repetition is the key activity to override the thoughts stored in your subconscious.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dell, when asked if dowsers could simply be going by subconscious landscape clues, you say: "Not when .............. you are Dowsing from a map a thousand miles or so from the location". Well, now you're talking about a different type of dowsing: Maps. I'll defer on that for another post. I'm just talking about localized rod-dowsing, on-site, for this question.

Next: "That's skeptic BS rationale. Think about it. Can you create a better DB test to proving Dowsing is not random chance guessing, than Dowsing for, and finding the Gold target buried under 20 feet of water and sand with no human involvement in hiding or touching it for 200 years. Your argument becomes very lame in light of fact. Actually it was accomplished with a physical Directional locator from a distance which Skeptics adamantly claim is Mental dowsing, and not physics related. O.k. I'll humor your closed minded beliefs for the sake of argument since you insist it's Dowsing "

All I can say to that is, to illistrate this way: If you pull up to a traffic light, let's say it's red. If I tell you that you can make the light turn green, by simply tapping on your steering wheel, eventually, the light will turn, right? Now what caused the light to turn green? You tapping on your steering wheel, or random chance? (ie.: it was going to turn anyways). Now if someone suggested a test, to test both methods, to see which one makes the light turn faster, we could do a series of tests, could we not? BUT WAIT! What if someone, who passionately believes the tapping aids to help the light turn, says this:

"That's skeptic BS rationale. Think about it. Can you create a better DB test proving Tapping is not random chance, than tapping for, and seeing the light change before your very eyes, with no human involvement in turning the light green or touching it for street-box-control panel? Your argument becomes very lame in light of fact. Actually it was accomplished with tappers from a distance which Skeptics adamantly claim is Mental tapping, and not physically in the car, by the steering wheel. "

What you're appealing to, is outcome. Ie.: I had success, so that is all the "test" I need. Dowsing need not be tested further, if I can point you to person's outcomes. Well, all I can say is, fine, let's say that you did indeed have successes, and you fully expect to have successes in the future. And via all this, you are convinced that it is not random odds. All of that tells me that there is nothing to fear, and this is a mastered skill for some. If that is the case, then yes, for them, they need not be bothered with tests, as it will only occupy time they could be dowsing for treasure and getting rich. But on the other hand, such confidence in the outcome, would seem to me to be all-the-more reason to want to subject it to a test, to hush up the skeptics. Afterall, you've got great success, and it "will be done in the future" too. So what's there to fear?

When someone comes up with a great new drug, that they say "cures pain", there will be testimonials of persons who swear that it worked for them. How do you argue with testimonials? You can't. So how do doctors, scientists and drug companies know what is the placebo effect vs what is truly bucking the odds? By testing them in double blind tests. The way you would look at it is: "I know my own pain went away, so that's all I need to know. It doesn't need to be tested, because some people are coming in with results" Yes, maybe some people are coming in with results. So too do some people occasionally draw a perfect hand at 21 in black-jack. So you see, results are a great subject, but they, alone, do not disproove random chance. Yes, even if you find a 200 yr. old treasure, does not dis-proove random chance.

Think of it: history is FILLED with stories of persons who have accidentally stumbled onto treasures, w/o even looking, right? You will occasionally read in the paper about a const. company digging, and stumbling into some box of buried goodies, statues in Greece, old cellars, etc... And you occasionally read about a gardener digging in his garden, who finds a buried jar of coins, etc.... So how much MORE SO will a person who is specifically going out and looking for buried goodies, in spots where they will likely be, also going to eventually find goodies? Of course they will.

Yes, the gardener and the const. worker "dug 1000 dry holes" and you would say "I don't dig that many, or I dig no dry holes at all", etc... (to distance yourself from my illistration). That's fine. The minute you say so though, begs to be tested. Like, I would say "really? You don't dig dry holes? let's test that", and then we go round and round where you don't need any test "except my past treasures that speak for themselves".

 

[aarthrj3811]

OK Tom …You mention Random Chance and then you mention Random Odds. Would you do a little research on these words…..We do our tests and know what the outcome is.
When you start using these words as we have been told us 100’s of times it puts a whole new life to your post. How about all the tests of dowsers that have been posted on this forum. What about all the facts about dowsing on this forum. We know how dowsing works for us. If you want to learn more it is real simple. Make yourselves a set of rods and give it a try. I have all the facts you need on this forum. Why should we do some test that will not prove anything when you can prove it to yourselves…..It is so simple but I have to admit that is much easier to have young kids try this. Make a set of rods from two coat hangers. Put a coin on the floor. Walk slowly toward the coin. Think about anything that you want. Did the rods react or not. I have 50 sets of coat hanger rods that I use to instruct high school students to find water, sewer and electric lines. I tell them that it can save them big bucks when they become home owners. ….Art

 

[dowser]

I live right next to the Black hills in Camp Verde, and drive to other mountains to look for gold also. I found about a dozen old gold mines near me, and as far as I could tell none of them had gold bigger than microscopic or submicroscopic in their ore. The same goes for the many other mines I have found in many other mountains. Their isn't a lot of areas that have visable gold, and if they do, their mostly claimed up, and I can't get near enough. I can say for a fact that they didn't miss much in the past around here. I've only located two ore bodies worth claiming, and both are hidden under overburden, and that's the only reason they were missed. When I finally find a vein with solid gold, or a nugget placer, that has been missed in the past. I will dowse all the nuggets, and take notes and pictures, and I will post them for you sceptics. But you have to be patient, I want it just as much as you, if not more...

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Dowser….I learned a few years ago that getting in a hurry was bad for me. I enjoy reading your post. Gold veins are tricky and you need to progress slowly. Twice I have traced the source of gold from the streams to the vein above. It is not a lot of fun. If the micro gold is giving you a big problem I can help you get rid of about ½ of the signals…Art

 

[dowser]

Art, thanks for wanting to help me improve my technique's. With different rods I can isolate stronger and single targets.. The problem is, the gold has to be their to find it..The only nugget area I've ever been in is Stanton, and yes theirs a lot of digging involved. I've decided to give up on random searching for a while, and just concentrate on lost treasure and vein leads.. I did check a gold signal which I believe is gold bars Sunday, and it has a strong Mercury signal with the gold.. I wonder how deep 800 lbs. of gold can sink in wet clay in 100 yrs.? I haven't contacted the property owners yet, and I haven't been over the target yet. Their isn't any quartz or granite around for 50 miles. Just lava clay and rocks..

 

[aarthrj3811]

A few years ago I started looking for large treasures. It is not easy. Something you may want to try. At my new home I buried a 3” by 3” piece of lead 2 foot deep. I can stand on it and my rods will be closed. I inch away from it and the rods will open. As I move along the rods will start to close. When my rods close to a vee I am 2 foot from the lead. You will have to decide where your rods are when you have moved two feet. I have found that this method is pretty accurate….Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dowser, you say: "When I finally find a vein with solid gold, or a nugget placer ...." I note the key word "finally". Is that to suggest that you are following the rod's lead, going out, and sampling where it points? And eventually, one of those spots you try, will hopefully have gold vein or nugget placer? If so, that sounds like a lot of trying of different spots, is this correct?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Tom…I think they call it Pospecting

 

[dowser]

Dowser, you say: "When I finally find a vein with solid gold, or a nugget placer ...." I note the key word "finally". Is that to suggest that you are following the rod's lead, going out, and sampling where it points? And eventually, one of those spots you try, will hopefully have gold vein or nugget placer? If so, that sounds like a lot of trying of different spots, is this correct?

Yes I can single out the strongest lines and follow them to their end, by using L-rods. And yes I sample or dig the object where the line leads. And in the last year I've been lead right to about a 20 abandoned gold diggings or mines, about 30 ore veins using gold as my signal, about 15 of these were exposed, most quartz veins with heavy mineralization, or some other mineralized materials. The majority of the veins are small, and they all only run short distances. The biggest ore body I located is 16" wide and runs 60'. I allways collect samples of the ore, and yes I get samples assayed. But as of yes I haven't found ore with free gold. And yes it takes a lot of trying different spots..

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Dowser….Gold veins are tricky. The signals you get are from the hot spots in the vein. These guys seem to not understand that the vein may be very small. At least you are locating gold and not beer cans and pull tabs…Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dowser, you answered my question by saying: "And yes it takes a lot of trying different spots" So what are in the other spots, where you were not so fortunate? Simply a dry hole? Or ....?