Question for dowsers

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Tom..I see you are still posting the rumor of empty holes. Have you made some rods and tried to step on a coin….It may just answer most of your questions. At least it may help you understand what we are talking about. …Art

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Hey Tom..I see you are still posting the rumor of empty holes. Have you made some rods and tried to step on a coin….It may just answer most of your questions. At least it may help you understand what we are talking about. …Art

He's asking a question, Art. Based on the response given by dowser, this is a completely viable and understandable question. In fact, if he hadn't asked dowser about this, I would have.

 

[aarthrj3811]

In your dreams AF….Art

 

[dowser]

Tom.. What it also meant was trying other areas rather than spots. I drive two miles jump out, check for Nickel and Gold mostly, then drive another two miles. Yes I'm led to mines and veins, and meteorites, but not allways. Sometimes I can drive 50 miles and not get a descent signal..

 

[ClonedSIM]

In your dreams AF….Art

Apparently not, Art. Looks like dowser thought the question was perfectly acceptable, and he gave a perfectly rational answer.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dowser, you answered my question by saying: "And yes it takes a lot of trying different spots" So what are in the other spots, where you were not so fortunate? Simply a dry hole?

No AF…The question is meant to Put into peoples minds a rumor about Dry Holes. No facts…Just a ploy by some of your side….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Dowser, you answered my question by saying: "And yes it takes a lot of trying different spots" So what are in the other spots, where you were not so fortunate? Simply a dry hole?

No AF…The question is meant to Put into peoples minds a rumor about Dry Holes. No facts…Just a ploy by some of your side….Art

Oh, that's right. You told me that you never dig a dry hole.....

How thoughtless of me.....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Dowser, you can really drive for miles, get out, scan with your rods, get no signals, jump back in your vehicle, and drive another 2 miles and repeat, etc... And then finally, at one of your stops, your rod crosses, and BINGO! there's gold there? If you are doing this, and not stopping to prospect the various locations you stop at (just trying the rods, and getting back in the car WITHOUT actual prospecting), then I say, I am impressed!

Of course, we can enter the subconscious surveying of the landscape as a possible reason why the rods don't cross (the terrain doesn't look promising for the presense of gold, to begin with perhaps). And then finally, a spot you stop at does look likely (for places where gold is likely to be based on the lay-of-the-land), and then the ideomotor reponse kicks in?

But let's say, for sake of argument, that all the spots you stopped looked identical. Let's say there was no "second guessing" by virtue of visual indicators, clues to veins, etc... If all that is the case, then I'd say if this type of dowsing can be repeatable, you have a case where you ought to tested! That would silence the best skeptic.

Of course, then the question would come up: How is dowsing capable of doing that? And then we'd regress into all the debate which always ends in: "I don't know how it works, but you can't argue with success" or "it's undiscovered science", etc....

 

[Keppy]

I look in a 3 foot circle. ==Jim==

 

[aarthrj3811]

Just walk around around and point your thingy at ANY ghost town, or old-town neighborhood, and it WILL find caches, right?
I'd be looking real hard for evidence of it being planted (sorry, friends are friends but we have to "cut the cards").
But rules would have to be "no excuses" Ie.: if you can't find them, you can't write it off to sun-spots, eclipses, etc.....
Simple math tells me that if you only dug one a week at that rate, you must be a multi-millionaire by now! Or do you want to revise your story?
when all attempts to explain dowsing fail, someone will say it works d/t science "which are unknown to us at this time."
There is no way the teensy electricals in our body, combined with a copper rod, have ANYTHING to do with pointing those rods at a field, and they get drawn to distant metals.
How will random items like copper wire and your bodies impulses, electricals, etc... have anything to do with finding metal?
C'mon! You know this is all metaphysical so hang up your scientific stuff and admit it's metaphysical!
There's no sense that rods work either, but you seem to find sense in that. So to the degree that you agree that my system is absurd, lacks a method of working, etc...
And it's not even in agreement amongst dowsers why it works, and theories vary, even amongst those in the "it's scientific" camp. That alone should make one wonder.
I mean, take your reasoning, straight from your last few posts, and apply it to the most obvious occult forms - things that even you would have to say are occult (seances? tarrot cards?
Good answer. We're on the same page there. I am only referring to the, shall we say, dark side, not Jesus' miracles, etc... things we would attribute to God, right, good, proper, etc...
[size=10pt]Then we dig a deep rusty nail and they say "I KNEW it sounded like a nail!" You see how that's just selective memory? Dowsing is the same thing, just wishful thinking, where, when you finally find something, the dowsing did it!
Steven77, on the contrary, it is QUITE positive to steer on-the-fence persons away from a silly waste of money & time. [/size]

Hey Tom…You just came here to save us money. The cost of two coat hangers….I wonder where I have heard all this b/S before…You don’t have the nerve to set on a coin. Would it warp your mind if the rods closed? You present no facts of any kind…..Go check the rest of Treasure Net and see how many people have found what we have. …..See how many people want to know how to go deeper. See how many people are complaining about those holes that contain nothing of value. It is clear to see that your methods leave a lot to be desired. You guys come in here and pretend to be dowsers and metal detector users and try to put false information on here. It doesn’t take long to find out that you are just pretenders.
….You guys talk to much over on goggle…Art

PS…For the metal detector crowd I have a little hint for you….When you are set up for gold and get a signal and you have marked the spot just kick the ground a couple of time. Just enough to disturb the top 1/16 inch. Check to see if the signal is still there. Try this and see if it helps you….

 

[dowser]

Tom..I've got my ideas on how it works, but I can't be sure of them. As for "undiscovered science", I would have to disagree. It's been discovered for centuries, only the proof is scattered thruout the years. The other Dowsers on this Forum have done a great job gathering it for everybody to read.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Art, granted, there are free dowsing tools (coat hangers, as you say), and then there's the ones I see in the magazines. Yes, even non-electronically enhanced ones are selling. Sure, maybe only $19.99, but not free

No, I don't pretend to be a dowser. When did I ever say I was a dowser? I am a skeptic, and have been from the start. Just as you would be skeptical if I said that my tennis shoes are a directional treasure finder, so too am I skeptical if someone says a brass rod can find treasure from distances. And yet you say: "try it and see Tom!" and wonder why I don't bother? Here's why: try my treasure finding tennis-shoe idea. It's free (certainly you have an old pair the closet, don't you?) You merely take the tennis shoes out to a suspected field, hold them at arm's length, and the shoelaces will magically rise and point in the direction of metal (the reason it works is undiscovered science). Will you try it? OF COURSE NOT, and I don't blame you. You'd say "that's silly and I'm not going to waste my time trying it". So too do I have trouble thinking of any good reason to try waving a coat-hanger around. Besides, if I DID put a coin on my patio, and went out to see if coat hangers really will point at it, I would probably just be subconsciously moving the rods towards it, because I already knew it was there. (I would only be surprised/convinced if it found unknown targets). And not only that, I thought dowsing wouldn't work for skeptics? So much so, that it's been stated here that the negative vibes from Skeptics will throw off dowsing results for nearby dowsers? So why would you think that if I tried dowsing, it would work for me? (I've never really understood how the treasure or the coat hanger knows who's a skeptic, and who's not, anyhow).

 

[aarthrj3811]

Art, granted, there are free dowsing tools (coat hangers, as you say), and then there's the ones I see in the magazines. Yes, even non-electronically enhanced ones are selling. Sure, maybe only $19.99, but not free

No, I don't pretend to be a dowser. When did I ever say I was a dowser? I am a skeptic, and have been from the start. Just as you would be skeptical if I said that my tennis shoes are a directional treasure finder, so too am I skeptical if someone says a brass rod can find treasure from distances. And yet you say: "try it and see Tom!" and wonder why I don't bother? Here's why: try my treasure finding tennis-shoe idea. It's free (certainly you have an old pair the closet, don't you?) You merely take the tennis shoes out to a suspected field, hold them at arm's length, and the shoelaces will magically rise and point in the direction of metal (the reason it works is undiscovered science). Will you try it? OF COURSE NOT, and I don't blame you. You'd say "that's silly and I'm not going to waste my time trying it". So too do I have trouble thinking of any good reason to try waving a coat-hanger around. Besides, if I DID put a coin on my patio, and went out to see if coat hangers really will point at it, I would probably just be subconsciously moving the rods towards it, because I already knew it was there. (I would only be surprised/convinced if it found unknown targets). And not only that, I thought dowsing wouldn't work for skeptics? So much so, that it's been stated here that the negative vibes from Skeptics will throw off dowsing results for nearby dowsers? So why would you think that if I tried dowsing, it would work for me? (I've never really understood how the treasure or the coat hanger knows who's a skeptic, and who's not, anyhow).

Just another long excuse with no facts in it...Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Art, granted, there are free dowsing tools (coat hangers, as you say), and then there's the ones I see in the magazines. Yes, even non-electronically enhanced ones are selling. Sure, maybe only $19.99, but not free

No, I don't pretend to be a dowser. When did I ever say I was a dowser? I am a skeptic, and have been from the start. Just as you would be skeptical if I said that my tennis shoes are a directional treasure finder, so too am I skeptical if someone says a brass rod can find treasure from distances. And yet you say: "try it and see Tom!" and wonder why I don't bother? Here's why: try my treasure finding tennis-shoe idea. It's free (certainly you have an old pair the closet, don't you?) You merely take the tennis shoes out to a suspected field, hold them at arm's length, and the shoelaces will magically rise and point in the direction of metal (the reason it works is undiscovered science). Will you try it? OF COURSE NOT, and I don't blame you. You'd say "that's silly and I'm not going to waste my time trying it". So too do I have trouble thinking of any good reason to try waving a coat-hanger around. Besides, if I DID put a coin on my patio, and went out to see if coat hangers really will point at it, I would probably just be subconsciously moving the rods towards it, because I already knew it was there. (I would only be surprised/convinced if it found unknown targets). And not only that, I thought dowsing wouldn't work for skeptics? So much so, that it's been stated here that the negative vibes from Skeptics will throw off dowsing results for nearby dowsers? So why would you think that if I tried dowsing, it would work for me? (I've never really understood how the treasure or the coat hanger knows who's a skeptic, and who's not, anyhow).

Just another long excuse with no facts in it...Art

Just another response from Art that shows he didn't bother to read anything in the post above before replying to it.

Never once did Tom claim to be setting forth facts for you to judge, Art. This is a post filled with questions and opinions. Why not respond to those?

Scared?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey AF…The facts are that you and Tom know nothing about looking for gold. If you want to pretend that you are treasure hunters the first thing you should do is learn a little bit about the subject….Art

 

[Tom_in_CA]

So art, are you willing to try my tennis shoe treasure finder idea? You're not close-minded are you? How about a peanut butter sandwich treasure finder idea? Or how about a coat hanger treasure finder? Oh WAIT! the last one really does find treasure, but not the previous two. How silly of me.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Hey AF…The facts are that you and Tom know nothing about looking for gold. If you want to pretend that you are treasure hunters the first thing you should do is learn a little bit about the subject….Art

I've found gold, Art. And silver, too.

You can see from Tom's avatar that he has found gold as well.

Wrong again, Artie boy.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Of course, we can enter the subconscious surveying of the landscape as a possible reason why the rods don't cross (the terrain doesn't look promising for the presense of gold, to begin with perhaps). And then finally, a spot you stop at does look likely (for places where gold is likely to be based on the lay-of-the-land), and then the ideomotor reponse kicks in?

You're right. Best guesses and random chance are closely related. No one is disupting that. But, you're starting to catch on to what is meant when someone says "random chance."

Like I said…You guys know nothing about looking for gold. You know even less about Dowsing….Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Of course, we can enter the subconscious surveying of the landscape as a possible reason why the rods don't cross (the terrain doesn't look promising for the presense of gold, to begin with perhaps). And then finally, a spot you stop at does look likely (for places where gold is likely to be based on the lay-of-the-land), and then the ideomotor reponse kicks in?

You're right. Best guesses and random chance are closely related. No one is disupting that. But, you're starting to catch on to what is meant when someone says "random chance."

Like I said…You guys know nothing about looking for gold. You know even less about Dowsing….Art

We know just as much about dowsing as you do, Art.

Of course, you don't know how it works, why it works, what causes it, etc.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Af, re.: "Of course, you don't know how it works, why it works, what causes it, etc. " If I were to go back through a few months of posts here, I gaurantee you I could find quotes by every last dowsing proponent, that states that, when push comes to shove, they don't know how it works. True, they put out theories (often contradictory to each other), and the various theories have been debated. But in the end, it will always come down to this "I don't know how or why it works, but I do know that I get results, and that's all I care about" (or words to that effect).

So you are right to say that, and I can not imagine anyone challenging that. So the debate is really about the results, and if they do better than random chance, hunches, digging around enough likely spots, using a detector to "pinpoint", etc..... This would be a results oriented discussion. I do believe that the "how/why" debate is done. That part always ended up in "future science will prove it" or "I don't know, but I get results", etc.....

Art, I do not look for nuggets in their natural state. My part of CA is along the coast. The nearest nugget hunting areas are in the Sierra Nevada foothills, about 3+ hrs. away. So I just never got into that line of TH'ing. If I am wrong about being able to judge the most likely places to find nuggets, I apologize. I am taking my statement from discussions with a hardcore nugget hunting friend from the Sacramento area. He's been hunting nuggets since back in the early 1980s, before there were even specialty nugget machines made. They used to use 6000d's to find them! (go to VLF all metal, dial in the exact ground balance, etc....). He has progressed so far, that Whites even featured him in their nugget machine advertisement one year. He has studied how gold is formed in nature, like, how veins are formed, what elevation it starts at, etc... How to judge from the lay of the land where nuggets will most likely be found.

I mean, isn't it true, for example, that a panner, when he looks at a given river bank he is about to pan, knows the most likely spots where the heavier gold will accumulate? (at bends, between fixed boulder, etc...)? That is all I'm talking about.