Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[somehiker]

Pantograph and a coloring book for the witch / horse.

A pantograph or even tracing paper can be used to copy a line drawing onto another piece of paper or flat stone.
But with both methods, you will only wind up with a 2-d copy, whereas the stones are 3-d "almost" copies.
That would require a duplicator, which is like a pantograph, but allows a 3 dimensional copy to be made. Even something like a statue.
Before children's books like "bobby the horse" there were much older works of art, depicting horses with the same simplicity as modern day coloring books.
Religious paintings, dating back to earlier Christian and Muslim eras, as well as works like 100 Horses by Fr. Giuseppe Castiglione SJ 1688-1766 featured similar horse depictions (especially Castiglione's sketches done prior to painting). Simple drawings, such as those on the H/P stone was all that was required to convey the concept of both as servants of the holy faith. In this case though, extra symbolism has been added to each depiction in order to convey a particular message.

Peralta Tesora Mappa for the trails.

Which came first? The Trail Stones or the PTM.
I believe the PTM is simply a poorly done copy of the trail stones, originally owned and probably made by Al Morrow.
It was posted on FB in 2013, and when I asked the poster about it, he answered that what he posted was actually a photo from Garman of Al's map which Al had used for his own searching.

Then some added flair - of course.

Who was it that said " A well appointed church" ?
But there is a lot of stuff on those stones which, to a servant of the holy faith, would give a great deal of information.

What would it take for you, Wayne, to be convinced it was carved by under tumlinsons hand or his "associates" ?

A video of him or his "associates" actually carving the stones....in the front yard of his mother's house....with an electric drill or dremel tool.

In a court of law - you need 7 discrepancies or similarities to what you want to prove.

There are way more than 7

It was a gravestone maker/cowboy from back east.
It was Ted DeGrazia
It was Clarence Mitchell....but I don't think hardly anyone still believes that, since we have known for a while that TT was a real person, and it was really Travis Marlow who was a fake.
It was Tom K., which I never believed anyway, cause I've seen a couple of rocks he DID make, and he don't carve worth s--t......Just kidding Tom...don't shoot !
I could probably find a couple more, but I'm too tired to look.

Then there's the "who found them's"

It was a Doc Rosecrans (he confessed)
It was a Mexican hole digger

and on and on it goes.....

 

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[sgtfda]

Others have had success in the general area haven't they Dave

 

[azdave35]

Others have had success in the general area haven't they Dave

oh yea...that area still has alot of goodies waiting to be unearthed

 

[RG1976]

oh yea...that area still has alot of goodies waiting to be unearthed

Stop bragging you two - or else I'll have to come and investigate

 

[RG1976]

I don't think I'll ever be able to show you that video SH! Sworn to secrecy!! Kidding

Thanks for sharing your theory - (it's all hidden in my quote text though) - it's interesting. Sounds like we are on polar opposites in our findings. I look for things to break down the story - and you look for things to reinforce the story.

 

[azdave35]

Stop bragging you two - or else I'll have to come and investigate

i know of a big one in there...i'll tell you about it next time you come by

 

[RG1976]

i know of a big one in there...i'll tell you about it next time you come by

Hopefully it will be too heavy for frank to carry out - so that'll mean I get to keep it!

 

[azdave35]

Hopefully it will be too heavy for frank to carry out - so that'll mean I get to keep it!

half a dozen people have died over this treasure ..and a couple more went to prison..maybe more

 

[sgtfda]

I'll stand guard Dave and get my buddy to get you a nice cell

 

[azdave35]

I'll stand guard Dave

lol..come over with ryan and i'll tell you both the story

 

[RG1976]

Dave - on a scale from 1-10 (10 hardest) how difficult would it be to carve one of the stone maps using a pantograph? You have a ton of experience with all that stuff.

 

[azdave35]

Dave - on a scale from 1-10 (10 hardest) how difficult would it be to carve one of the stone maps using a pantograph? You have a ton of experience with all that stuff.

fairly easy...i could do it if i had the urge...i used to have a pantograph...an old one..matter of fact it was made about the time the stones were found...it would have been easy enough for someone to come up with a pantograph back then.......basicly its a duplicator machine...kinda like a prehistoric cnc mill...lol

 

[azdave35]

fairly easy...i could do it if i had the urge...i used to have a pantograph...an old one..matter of fact it was made about the time the stones were found...it would have been easy enough for someone to come up with a pantograph back then.......basicly its a duplicator machine...kinda like a prehistoric cnc mill...lol

you remember the last time you were here ..i picked up a hunk of sandstone and carved into it with my pocket knife..thats why tumlinson picked sandstone to make the maps out of..its so soft and easy to carve

 

[cactusjumper]

"Which came first? The Trail Stones or the PTM.
I believe the PTM is simply a poorly done copy of the trail stones, originally owned and probably made by Al Morrow.
It was posted on FB in 2013, and when I asked the poster about it, he answered that what he posted was actually a photo from Garman of Al's map which Al had used for his own searching."


Wayne,

This is a picture of Al Morrow's map:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/cactus_jumper/AlsMap.jpg

This picture is Ernie Provence taking the picture of the map in Al's camp:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/cactus_jumper/scan0002.jpg

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Joe:

I have that one, from the same source, on file. The photo of Ernie as well, although it's hard to see which map in that shot. I have also saved all of the posts which Ernie made re: the "cave of gold bars" and Harry France....or "LaFrance" as you have used in your own version of that story.
Most of us who are interested in "treasure" have collected many maps over the years, including self-drawn copies of maps for which we couldn't obtain a personal copy any other way. I still have one I copied from an 17th century Jesuit original that was displayed in a museum, to which I have added some notes, compass bearings, and the trail I used to later explore the area as Al may have done himself. I copied that one in Oct. 1969 (same year as Roger registered for the other forum), and it has a special significance for me in that there is a newspaper clipping attached to it with my name in it. It's not a long story, and I paid for that hastily made drawing with a night in a cold jail cell, but it has a happy ending with the charges against me and my partner being dropped. That clipping, more of the history surrounding the story, and photos of what we found may show up on here or in a film somewhere down the road. There may even be an update available at that time.
The person who posted the photo of the "Tesoro" map referred to it as one of the maps Morrow used.
He's one who should know if that was the case or not.
I've run out of time and have to head out for the day but as I recall, Morrow had another self made map which, unlike the way the trail on the stones passes through the dots,also had the dots arranged along side the trail, just as has been done on the Tesoro map (both versions).
I'll see if I can find and post it when I return home.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Ryan,

You stated;
"As far as tumlinsons making money off their maps - I really don't believe they did - with the 100% intention to scam.
I wholeheartedly believe that they were on a mission to find something - and created the maps for Dr. Davis to finance them."

Here is where my mind wanders in two different directions:

1st- Finance them for what Making fake stones? They BELIEVED that there was something to be found. But what was the info they had to follow and what were they following? It is quite obvious that they would not venture out on fake stones, unless it was a diversion to discover something else that they couldn't provide compelling evidence with but had an amount of certainty that they could discover the said "treasure" if they were backed by deep pockets.
2nd- they were just plain lazy in the workforce and wanted to jump on the mining wave and ride it without regard to their own investment.

If I had to choose an option I would choose the first. They needed something or someone to back their venture and discovery without disclosing what they were following and "created" evidence to look authentic to their story.

Very interesting......

Along the same lines as to why people would finance something like the stones, to get rice quick, reminds me of what happened near Death Valley.

Lead ore was being exploited in an area known as Titus Canyon as early as 1905, but then a town site called Leadfield was built at the head of the canyon which dates to the years 1925 and 1926. The product of extensive and fraudulent advertising by the Western Lead Mine Company and C.C. Julian, the town boomed in 1925. The town was born from a get rich-quick scheme with promises of lead and copper. More than 300 people made the journey, and by 1926 Leadfield’s population was at its height.

Fifteen miles of road were built up the canyon to connect with the road to Beatty, Nevada, a concrete foundation for a Stamp mill was poured, and the beginning of a series of power poles for electric lines were installed.

Historic photographs show some frame and corrugated metal buildings and there is evidence of a few dugouts, but the majority of the denizens of Leadfield lived in tents of varying sizes and construction. The population peaked at around 300 in 1926, with a post office opening in August of that year. However, by February 1927, the post office closed down and the town died.

Julian disappeared and the inhabitants soon became disillusioned and quickly drifted away. The significance of the site lies in the fact it was an example of one of the get-rich-quick schemes of the wild 1920s.

Perhaps the advertising approach of promoter C.C. Julian hastened the town’s demise a year later. Despite the land-locked remote desert mountain town location, Julian's “advertising posters showed steamboats navigating the Amargosa River to Leadfield, ignoring the fact that the Amargosa River is dry much of the time and does not run within 20 miles of Leadfield.”

 

[Garry]

Joe:

I have that one, from the same source, on file. The photo of Ernie as well, although it's hard to see which map in that shot. I have also saved all of the posts which Ernie made re: the "cave of gold bars" and Harry France....or "LaFrance" as you have used in your own version of that story.
Most of us who are interested in "treasure" have collected many maps over the years, including self-drawn copies of maps for which we couldn't obtain a personal copy any other way. I still have one I copied from an 17th century Jesuit original that was displayed in a museum, to which I have added some notes, compass bearings, and the trail I used to later explore the area as Al may have done himself. I copied that one in Oct. 1969 (same year as Roger registered for the other forum), and it has a special significance for me in that there is a newspaper clipping attached to it with my name in it. It's not a long story, and I paid for that hastily made drawing with a night in a cold jail cell, but it has a happy ending with the charges against me and my partner being dropped. That clipping, more of the history surrounding the story, and photos of what we found may show up on here or in a film somewhere down the road. There may even be an update available at that time.
The person who posted the photo of the "Tesoro" map referred to it as one of the maps Morrow used.
He's one who should know if that was the case or not.
I've run out of time and have to head out for the day but as I recall, Morrow had another self made map which, unlike the way the trail on the stones passes through the dots,also had the dots arranged along side the trail, just as has been done on the Tesoro map (both versions).
I'll see if I can find and post it when I return home.

Regards:Wayne

cactusjumper and somehiker,

One of the research projects I had in mind in my earlier post was trying to establish some provenance of the PTM.

It looks like you guys have already gone down that path a long ways and I look forward to see what you have come up with.

Who is Roger?

What forum was operating in 1969?

What’s the person’s name on FB?

Can you approximate the date of the Ernie photo?

Has someone posted the Garman version of the PTM?

I could go on but I won't at this time.

Thanks, Garry

 

[deducer]

Who is Roger?

What forum was operating in 1969?

What’s the person’s name on FB?

Thanks, Garry

Garry

Roger was one of the original posters, (and one of the most knowledgeable) over at the old Feldman forum. It may have been a software quirk or an inside joke, but his profile shows him as having signed up on December 31, 1969. Count (admin) and Ron (Feldman) are the other two with the same join date.

 

[cactusjumper]

Garry,

The picture of Ernie is from, around, 1965.

Roger has been at every Rendezvous since the beginning. He is near the top of the LDM food chain and has a great deal of knowledge concerning the Stone Maps. He's a true gentleman and good for anyone to have as a friend.

I have my Uncle Chuck's topographic map. It has "Harry La France" signed on the back. For whatever reason, Chuck never called him Harry France. The death certificate from the VA is for Harry France. Despite a few discrepancies, I believe the cave of gold bars story......100%

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Garry

Roger was one of the original posters, (and one of the most knowledgeable) over at the old Feldman forum. It may have been a software quirk or an inside joke, but his profile shows him as having signed up on December 31, 1969. Count (admin) and Ron (Feldman) are the other two with the same join date.

when feldman updated the forum everyone in the archive section of the forum showed up as count and had 1969 for a join date...roger is from texas and i'm surprised he isnt on this forum