Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps
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cactusjumper
Gold Member
Dave,
Count is Joseph Pavlic, who is the Webmaster for the LDM Forum. He is a Canadian.
He explained that when he transferred the posts into the "Old Forum", he couldn't tag them with the original posters name, so he used "Count".
Your friend's story is one of the things that cemented my belief in the Cave of Gold Bars Story.
Take care,
Joe
Azquester
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Fabulous Video Frank + Ryan!
You guys nailed it great!
I'm ready to invest!
Carve me some copies with that machine I'll sell them at Walmart!
The only thing I would have done a bit differently would have been too find what original model of black and white camera he used for the bumper shot and attempt to set up the correct height, angles and sun declination for the shadowing of the comparison shots of the PH stone but it's very clear the newer TM's were copies!
Or the old photo was forged into something else.
Could have been the maps were so full of dirt and the angle, camera or sun had a lot to do with it, possibly some touch ups to the BW photo were done on purpose back then similar to the same as photo shop dodging and smearing , but it sure looks to possibly be a pantograph copy.
Could be the bumper stones photo were messed with on purpose to not match anything we know today thought to have been found by Travis by just simply using mud smeared over parts of it and new lines / holes created in the mud.
The PH stone not so great a difference.
It shows it may have been a touch up or re-cutting of certain letters in an attempt at restoration by a curator.
If there was information in his manuscript he hoaxed the whole mess I think that's not right so many people have lost lives in a search for the Dutchman and so many have done the same for the PS.
I also noticed the black material in the bottom of the letters on the TM's looks to possibly be graphite or paint. Not so much on the PHM.
The stone TM's were changing color as you Video Taped them from a red to a gray and even a light green.
Nice filming!
It was a terrific Video and you two are doing a great job!
You guys nailed it great!
I'm ready to invest!
Carve me some copies with that machine I'll sell them at Walmart!
The only thing I would have done a bit differently would have been too find what original model of black and white camera he used for the bumper shot and attempt to set up the correct height, angles and sun declination for the shadowing of the comparison shots of the PH stone but it's very clear the newer TM's were copies!
Or the old photo was forged into something else.
Could have been the maps were so full of dirt and the angle, camera or sun had a lot to do with it, possibly some touch ups to the BW photo were done on purpose back then similar to the same as photo shop dodging and smearing , but it sure looks to possibly be a pantograph copy.
Could be the bumper stones photo were messed with on purpose to not match anything we know today thought to have been found by Travis by just simply using mud smeared over parts of it and new lines / holes created in the mud.
The PH stone not so great a difference.
It shows it may have been a touch up or re-cutting of certain letters in an attempt at restoration by a curator.
If there was information in his manuscript he hoaxed the whole mess I think that's not right so many people have lost lives in a search for the Dutchman and so many have done the same for the PS.
I also noticed the black material in the bottom of the letters on the TM's looks to possibly be graphite or paint. Not so much on the PHM.
The stone TM's were changing color as you Video Taped them from a red to a gray and even a light green.
Nice filming!
It was a terrific Video and you two are doing a great job!
- May 9, 2012
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I'd grade it a B plus.
Copies sometimes are deliberately not duplicates. To leave out info or for copyright reasons. though neither seem to stop stop these from being similar.
The horses nose alone and "trail" touching it shows lack of precision in duplication, could be from tools or material or makers eye, but still a darn good copy..
OP
OP
RG1976
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I'd grade it a B plus.
Copies sometimes are deliberately not duplicates. To leave out info or for copyright reasons. though neither seem to stop stop these from being similar.
The horses nose alone and "trail" touching it shows lack of precision in duplication, could be from tools or material or makers eye, but still a darn good copy..
I'd agree with this. B+ sounds fair
It is very well done – but still enough to know that it's not the same stone
OP
OP
RG1976
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Hey bill - thanks. Glad you enjoyed the video!
If you can tell me what the 2nd model of camera I used in this video was - I'll tell you what model of camera the bumper photo was taken with!
If you can tell me what the 2nd model of camera I used in this video was - I'll tell you what model of camera the bumper photo was taken with!
sgtfda
Bronze Member
Sometimes overthinking complicates a logical simple solution. One reason many treasure hunters fail. The LDM and the stone maps are perfect examples. Solutions are frequently found by those without years excess baggage. Ryan approached this project with a open mind and developed some logical conclusions. I think he did a great job filtering out the excess baggage.
DiggerGal
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This is from "Cactusjumper" on the number 4 video thread. And I want to ask about the comment he made on this forum in where the stones are being discussed:
"This is the original picture taken from an original negative that Dr. Glover obtained. He did say he touched up most of the portions of the stones that had fold lines on them."
I want to refer to the line to which it states "He did say he touched up MOST of the portions of the stones that had fold lines on them"
Ryan,
What type of difference would this make in your comparisons from the original photo versus the stones?
"This is the original picture taken from an original negative that Dr. Glover obtained. He did say he touched up most of the portions of the stones that had fold lines on them."
I want to refer to the line to which it states "He did say he touched up MOST of the portions of the stones that had fold lines on them"
Ryan,
What type of difference would this make in your comparisons from the original photo versus the stones?
deducer
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Have you talked to him lately? Would sure be good to see him on this forum. His knowledge of the Supes would sure be an asset around here.
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
Azquester
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Ryan,
Matthew just shut that door on that with his revelation about the photo of a photo being touched up around the folds in the original photo, and again in the photo of a photo. I kind of suspected that the photo creases and folds were distorting the image. So I was right in my assessment of the photo.
Kind of reminds me of the first video where everyone was debunking the debunker so on, so forth.
The later photo's of the PHM in the sixties have there small differences but they are small compared to the TM'S and could be also related to a photo of a photo angles, lighting, shade, retouching, etc.
I grade it an "A+".
When do we take our test?
Ha Ha!
Lots of material to absorb.
All this new info about the provenance of the stone maps I think it only makes some people more determined to search while others are saying I told you those maps were a Hoax!
One thing about this whole Video investigation is that makes people think more outside the box!
Whether or not it sways anyone in any new directions about the stones we will have to see.
So were still back at square one.
The cause and affect could be Hunters making even more discoveries along the lines of it's intriguing symbols out in the field.
IE: Bronze Cross
How good is your Drone in the wind?
Matthew just shut that door on that with his revelation about the photo of a photo being touched up around the folds in the original photo, and again in the photo of a photo. I kind of suspected that the photo creases and folds were distorting the image. So I was right in my assessment of the photo.
Kind of reminds me of the first video where everyone was debunking the debunker so on, so forth.
The later photo's of the PHM in the sixties have there small differences but they are small compared to the TM'S and could be also related to a photo of a photo angles, lighting, shade, retouching, etc.
I grade it an "A+".
When do we take our test?
Ha Ha!
Lots of material to absorb.
All this new info about the provenance of the stone maps I think it only makes some people more determined to search while others are saying I told you those maps were a Hoax!
One thing about this whole Video investigation is that makes people think more outside the box!
Whether or not it sways anyone in any new directions about the stones we will have to see.
So were still back at square one.
The cause and affect could be Hunters making even more discoveries along the lines of it's intriguing symbols out in the field.
IE: Bronze Cross
How good is your Drone in the wind?
cactusjumper
Gold Member
I only go by what Dr. Glover told me......personally. He only smoothed out the fold lines. Others may have changed the original photograph, but that's a crap-shoot for sure.
Good luck,
Joe
DiggerGal
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cw0909
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3rd watch of vid great job, you do a great job presenting the info too
about T.T. & CO. pulling a $$ scam, could of been something down the
road, they had planned,but T.T. was sick then passed from that illness
the stones got moved around, stories changed, maybe the Dr. investor
changed some dynamics too, and a $$ scam just wasnt feasible anymore
about T.T. & CO. pulling a $$ scam, could of been something down the
road, they had planned,but T.T. was sick then passed from that illness
the stones got moved around, stories changed, maybe the Dr. investor
changed some dynamics too, and a $$ scam just wasnt feasible anymore
markmar
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OP
OP
RG1976
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Thanks so much CW. I just got off the phone with another one of my favorite Dutch Hunters and we discussed the video. I told him that my intention of making them was to create great conversation and bring my own theories into the conversation combined with video and photo.
Frank and I certainly put a lot of effort into all these - so it's great to get comments like yours.
As to something else down the road with the Tumlinson's. Yes - I agree. That's why we have the manuscript. The manuscript was written for a purpose - otherwise it would be a journal.
Frank and I have a great plan for video 7 - as you saw there at the very end in Mr. Davis' library. The weather out here is a killer right now - 114 today - so its putting a damper on getting footage, unfortunately.
Las Vegas Bob
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I am beginning to believe the whole thing was just another way of "salting a mine."
