Please can someone help me!?

[Volodymyr4868]

Hello everyone. My name is Volodymyr and I am from Guelph, Ontario, Canada. My city requires a metal detecting permit in order to detect on city property. However in order for me to do that I first need to be a member of a registered club. The closest official metal detecting club to Guelph is in Stoney Creek close to Hamilton to get to which is $40 for a bus ride plus $20 from a central station in Hamilton to Stoney Creek on a taxi as no direct bus goes there and $20 back. That's $80. If that wasn't enough the club president and members are being ridiculous since they demand I come to at least 4 meetings a year before I can get the membership. That's $320 man!!! Thus I decided maybe enough is enough and I would like to start my own registered club. Does anyone know where the licensing office is for that?? And potentially how much it will cost?? Mainly who do I go to to start my own club, or if not what can I do in this tough situation. I am really passionate about detecting and would absolutely love to do it in my city but I don't want to risk fines and confiscation of my detector and thus really would like to get this permit. Any information you provide in invaluable! Thanks so much!

Vlad

 

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[Oddjob]

Welcome to the forum.

I guess my first question if I wanted to start a club about my passion in order to save some money would be, Do I have the means to organize, fund and provide useful assistance. Then I would consider, do I really want to play politics just to MD.

Just saying,

 

[jeff of pa]

Sorry I can't help on what this Registering clubs is.
Registered with who ? Guelph, Ontario ? if that's the case, you would need to contact the city
for details on that. if just a member of a Club.

Google Canada metal detecting clubs , and of course
check the list here for one that is still active friendlier and easier to join.

Clubs & Hunts - Canada

 

[Mackaydon]

Suggestion:
Call the Guelph city government information line.
Tell them you want a Business License and ask for the procedure.
Don.......
PS: My kin came from Embro, NW of Woodstock; Good Luck !!
And Welcome to Treasure Net !!

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

I don't know the laws in your area, but why cant you just start your own club?
Give it a fancy name, add your friends and relatives to the roster (they don't even have to MD), maybe fix up a website on one of the free hosters and print up something official looking for a membership card with the address of your site and shove it in the goobermint's face.
Wouldn't hurt to print up some business cards or something saying your club hunts for lost items for free- you know, something that sounds civic minded.

Of course, if theres a law that defines what a 'club' is in your jurisdiction, then you'll have to adapt to that.

(and I suspect there may be someone along shortly with a name that starts with a 'T' telling you in so many words to break that law if you don't like it. I advise against that since he wont pay your fines for you.)

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... My city requires a metal detecting permit in order to detect on city property....

Question for you Vlad: Have you actually seen the written text location, referencing any such city muni code , ordinance, rule, etc... ? I mean, is this actually written down some where in law ? Because you would be SURPRISED how often some desk clerk can tell someone "you have to have a permit", when it's nowhere written down to actually say that. Perhaps you really do have a specific rule like that there. I don't know. But just don't be so sure, if someone says "you have to have a permit", that there really is such a beast.

Assuming there is such a thing there though: ....

... I don't want to risk fines and confiscation of my detector and thus really would like to get this permit....

Have you heard of anyone who metal detected there, getting "fines" and "confiscations" ? I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and beg for trouble, but just wondering .... We have a city about an hour from me, who did, in fact, dream up such a thing about 30 yrs. ago. And, like your situation, are available "through the club" (which handles issuing them). But oddly, NO ONE in that city CAN EVER recall being carded for this. And truth be told, probably no one city hall or park's dept. even knows of this dusty minutia.

A friend of mine even TRIED to get carded (proud that he had it in his wallet). He purposefully went detecting in circles around some park workers doing some maintenance on some sort of park project. They just ignored him. Doh !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I suspect there may be someone along shortly with a name that starts with a 'T' telling you in so many words to break that law if you don't like it. I advise against that since he wont pay your fines for you.)

haha, good one

And the clear implication here ? That there will be "fines". Well if that implied premise is true (which perhaps it could be a 1) true rule, and 2) actually known and enforced, then BY ALL MEANS start a club (with 1 member) and go through the lip service to get a legit permit.

But I'm not so sure the premise is true though. If it is, then by all means, no one wants "fines".

Hey Champ, check out the Seal Beach thread on the legal section of T'net. There's a perfect example of what I'm saying.

 

[Volodymyr4868]

Hello Don what is the number for Guelph city government information line?I googled it but did not receive relevant results. Also are you sure business license is what I need?I guess I can also ask them whether that would be fine. Please let me know!

Hi Jeff of pa and Champferguson sorry if I am misspelling your names but as to whom the registration should go to they told me it must be a sanctioned metal detecting club or association. Does that give you a better idea? Any ideas you have now are much appreciated so write me back if possible.

Thanks!
Vlad

 

[stefen]

Lets see, you're a member of Treasure Net.

Now if you were to modify your membership status to "Charter Member", then this should suffice!

 

[cw0909]

Originally Posted by Volodymyr4868
..... My city requires a metal detecting permit in order to detect on city property....

looked around for about a 1/2 hr and found.........
maybe im on the wrong pg for the city gov site,i saw nothing here about Mding
city bylaws
Bylaws and Policies - City of Guelph

as to whom the registration should go to they told me it must be a sanctioned metal detecting club or association. Does that give you a better idea? Any ideas you have now are much appreciated so write me back if possible.

Thanks!
Vlad

you can check these links for info on clubs and how to open a club there

“Public Social Clubs”
social clubs that operate as NPOs
http://www.carters.ca/pub/article/charity/2004/tlmtsc1027.pdf

more info
Tax Alert for Non-Profit Organizations (NPOs) , PwC Canada

Not-For-Profit Incorporator's Handbook
Ministry of the Attorney General
https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov...Not_for_Profit_Incorporators_Handbook_EN.html

is this the club you are talking about
http://rainbowsendclub.ca/wordpress...-D-A-Official-Club-Manual-FINAL-Feb-10-16.pdf

 

[Tom_in_CA]

CW0909, good sleuthing work. Since you'd posted that city's website, and since it was/is equipped with a word-search function, I type in variations of "metal" and/or "detector", and/or "detecting", etc..... Nothing at all comes up. No mention of metal detectors or metal detecting in the city.

And to be clear: All sorts of other minutia (about smoke detectors, metal scrap, leak detecting etc...) do come up. Indicating to me that it's a thorough search of all sorts of city things.

So what am I missing ? If there's a permit required, why isn't it there ? I'm leaning to my earlier surmising that someone got bum information, and no such permit exists. Ie.: a "safe answer" to a "pressing question" type thing perhaps ?

 

[cw0909]

i looked here too, tried to link, the search results no go
out of i think 768 results for search term, metal detecting
i got through the 1st 5 pgs nothing the other search says
0 results.
i think someone at the desk is misinterpreting
the rule/bylaw and Volodymyr4868 is searching
for a permit rule thats not on the books

https://www.ontario.ca/laws
Basic search - Canada.ca
Justice Laws Search

 

[cw0909]

came across this Tnet thread, makes me really think someone at the desk is
misinterpreting the rule/bylaw

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/r...metal-detecting-use-criminal-code-canada.html

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Lets see, you're a member of Treasure Net.

Now if you were to modify your membership status to "Charter Member", then this should suffice!

A most excellent idea.

Other than that, Tom is right that you need to read the codes for yourself. If it is a misinterpretation by some pinheaded federale, then you need to be willing to fight them or do what they say. Decide what's worth it to YOU. Again, I don't know Canadian laws, but they cant deny sanctioning your club on a whim if your rights are anything like ours in the states. But you have to be willing to fight them and that means money usually. And you(taxpayers) are paying for Their expenses.

Tom, I'm not getting into another pointless battle of semantics again. I'll just refer you to this thread: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/general-discussion/362060-obey-laws.html

 

[Volodymyr4868]

The law I am referring to is Bylaw(1984)-11623 for those who weren't able to find it. Thanks for all the info so far guys it gave me lots of ideas! Trying to use T-Net membership to get my permit on Monday! If not will try info on how to start my own club from cw0909.

Vlad

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The law I am referring to is Bylaw(1984)-11623 for those who weren't able to find it....

Vlad, is this a section on the afore-linked city website ? If so, I don't see any such section with that #'s. Can you direct link it, or cut & paste the text referring to metal detecting/detectors ? thanx.

 

[Volodymyr4868]

Unfortunately it's not on the website of city of Guelph that I can see(they have most popular ones) or other websites either that I can see but I have an expired permit from last year and that's the info it gives me.Kinda stupid but nothing I can do. As I said I will try to use this site's membership Monday and if not info given by other members.

Vlad

 

[digger460]

I've alway's had difficulty finding laws in my area. Personally, I think it get's out that you can't metal detect certain area's, then you try to find the actual law, and you can't find it, so you just give up and don't bother M-detecting the area you wanted to, which is exactly what they want.

Vlad, have you tried to ask permission of private homeowner's in the city. Wouldn't think you would need permission there. If your talking parks etc. in the city, and there are clubs around, there probably pounded heavily anyway. Just sayin'.

Good Luck in your ventures

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Unfortunately it's not on the website of city of Guelph that I can see(they have most popular ones) or other websites either that I can see but I have an expired permit from last year and that's the info it gives me....

That's strange. Because at first glance, it appeared to be their city municipal codes, ordinances, etc.... on-line. But since it appears to be cryptic (only showing select portions), you can still go view the full list somewhere. Like at city-hall in binder form. At at the library. SOMEWHERE it has to be available, in print form, for public viewing. Because no laws are "secret", afterall.

And now that you have a # , it's an easy matter of going straight to that number. You can look it up now to see if it's a true/real law.

 

[cw0909]

Unfortunately it's not on the website of city of Guelph that I can see(they have most popular ones) or other websites either that I can see but I have an expired permit from last year and that's the info it gives me.Kinda stupid but nothing I can do. As I said I will try to use this site's membership Monday and if not info given by other members.

Vlad

do you have a scan or good readable screenshot, of the expired permit from last year
i couldnt find the rule/bylaw anywhere, not even at the search links i posted