$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

[Carl-NC]

If the money is now in escrow why are five or more people suing to collect after proving themselves? If the test is on the up and up why has Randi been busted more than once switching envelopes in his safe on film. I say he does not now, never has and never will have the million and that he will cheat, lie, swindle and fake anything to avoid being proven the fraud that he is. exanimo, ss

Hi SS,

Who, specifically, is suing Randi over the prize? What video shows Randi switching envelopes?

- Carl

 

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[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Hello Carl, I recalled what I remembered about that subject above. You would have to look in the quoted archives for that data. I did not personally see the video. I read an account by someone who claimed to have seen the videos. Since Randi is very low on my list of priorities I will not do the research needed to prove him a fraud. My account of the dowsing challenge that he refused to acknowledge is completely accurate because I was one of the dowsers involved in the five man team. I have noticed that when I permit myself to be manipulated into doing that sort of research and post my evidence the bar is immediately moved and the subject changed to continue wasting my time. Life is too short to fall for that crap more than once. Until I see proof that there are not videos of Randi cheating I will continue to believe that he does.
Can you provide the identity or location of the person who did the dowsing column in the Prospectors Gazette under the name of Duke Stewart? He is not the current Fred Stewart for a fact. Been trying to contact that person for many moons including while the gazette was still being published. I've been accused of being Cy Goldenrod but that was not me and my work was in the Gazette under my real name.

FleaMistress - thank you for the endorsement of my dowsing BUT you forgot to mention to me that you made the recovery. I thought that it was something that had not been tested yet. For those who are interested I used FM the person and her home as a target and dowsed the distance and line of bearing from her back door to the nearest silver. She says that she found a morgan dollar at that spot. The distance involved was from Indiana to Oklahoma. This was done as an experiment and I no longer accept any new clients due to lack of feedback and lack of searching the spots I provided. Once again life is too short to waste my time. You get that attitude after you die a couple of times. exanimo, ss

 

[aarthrj3811]

Right on about feedback SS....I want to know if I am right or wrong. I like to know if my information was helpful. When people just vanish it doesn't make me feel good.... Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Until I see proof that there are not videos of Randi cheating I will continue to believe that he does.

That seems a bit unfair toward anyone... kinda like saying, "Until I see evidence that you are not beating your wife, I will assume you are."

One thing I've learned with my LRL challenge, is that there are a lot of people who intensely dislike my challenge and, by extension, me. Most of these people, as you can imagine, are strong LRL proponents, and naturally include ALL of the LRL manufacturers.

So far, not a single, solitary person has taken my challenge. I've had a few people interested, and thought for sure I would be heading out to Reno to test Bob Yocum, but he has apparently withdrawn. Now, I personally think the test I propose is fair, and if any of these LRLs (or even just plain ol' dowsing) Really Worked, it should be pretty easy to win my money. But I'm also open-minded, and perfectly willing to let folks propose their own test, and work from there. In fact, I completely agreed to the test Bob Yocum proposed.

Anyway, what's happened so far is that, instead of LRL proponents jumping at this opportunity for easy money, they simply start bashing the challenge, and me as well. I've heard quite a few rumours floating around, including:

1) I've cheated in tests
2) I've stolen door prizes from a treasure show (supposedly on video!)
3) I've refused to award the prize to a successful claimant
4) I don't have any money to award
5) I'm trying to steal (or have already stolen) LRL technology

As I'm sure you know, I did have one LRL manufacturer sue me, after he fell flat on his face in a simple randomized blind test at a treasure show. Jim Thomas' LRL would easily respond to his gold target when he knew where it was, but when I placed the same target under 1-of-4 paper cups, he consistently failed to locate it. In the lawsuit, Jim accused me of cheating (among other things), so I was eager to meet him in court, and watch him fall flat on his face again. But he turned tail at the last minute, and dropped the lawsuit.

So I understand how people who have an intense dislike of Randi, might fabricate things about him, in an attempt to discredit both him and his challenge. There is a lot of money being made in the paranormal industry, most of it, I believe, through outright fraud. Yes, Randi has been sued, by the likes of Geller and Byrd, but I don't think a "successful" claimant has ever sued him. Nor have I ever seen any evidence that he's cheated in tests (I've looked), so the mentioned video probably does not exist.... he really has no need to cheat, because I don't think paranormal powers exist. Though never for the prize, I've tested a fair number of dowsers/LRLers, and when the test goes blind, they simply cannot dowse.

Now, right here in this thread, I asked dowsers to offer what they would consider to be a legitimate test of their ability, something they might use in an informal demonstration. My request was met with silence, followed by Dell's expected sarcasm. I don't understand why dowsers can't propose a simple, fair test of their chosing, especially after bashing Randi's challenge as being unfair.

Can you provide the identity or location of the person who did the dowsing column in the Prospectors Gazette under the name of Duke Stewart? He is not the current Fred Stewart for a fact. Been trying to contact that person for many moons including while the gazette was still being published. I've been accused of being Cy Goldenrod but that was not me and my work was in the Gazette under my real name.

No, sorry, don't even own any PG's.

- Carl

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

It's imminently fair to treat a sceptic with the same standards they place on others. All I've heard from the nay-sayers is "you can't do it - oh well - you can't do it again." They are like the little kids who turn every one on one bet into best two out of three then three out of five then five out of nine. It's a never ending process and nothing is good enough. I don't dislike you Carl. You are persistent but not obnoxious. Just because I like you as a person does not mean that I will have anything to do with tests of dowsing or anything else that I feel is a waste of my time. I, like everyone, have obligations and bills to pay. I, like everyone, have a large number of things I like to do. I, like everyone, seek to save as much time as possible to do those things that I enjoy doing. I won't live near long enough to do everything I want to and which I feel is important. There is no time to spare for things I don't care about. That's the way it is. There are a number of people on this site who are willing to deal with sceptics and tests. They usually have to wade through loads of garbage and time wasters to do it. They should be applauded and assisted by the sceptics and then maybe more people would be willing to spend time on your projects.
You, like many others, mix dowsing and LRLs. I don't know anything about LRLs and am constantly being asked to explain why model whatever doesn't show the same results as dowsing. That is very frustrating. I own one which I have been playing with to see if there is any correlation between its results and what I get with my instruments. I do have one thing to say about LRL and metal detector manufacturers. I know of only one manufacturer that offers a money back guarantee and that is the Dell Winders you are always going after. I don't know if that was only an offer for one model or for all his items but in the last 45 years I've never seen anyone else offer a refund for anything in this hobby. Wonder why the only refund is offered by the guy you sceptics all tear into? I've found Dell to be knowledgeable and fair in his dealings and willing to help others. I have never bought one of Dell's products so have no opinion on their abilities or qualities. I don't see Charlie Garrett or Ken White offering refunds. The few times I've contacted them I have not been helped very well. Perhaps that is because I don't have a problem with their current $1500 cadillacs but maybe need hardware or coil repair for a 20 or 30 year old detector. I must not get out much. I haven't heard you accused of the things you say you've been accused of. It's quite possible that many things have been fabricated about Randi. Its also possible that he is as big a sleaze as people say. Doesn't matter to me. I'll be long gone before they sort that out in court. I appreciate your response about Duke Stewart. As Edison said that's just another approach that didn't work. Eventually I'll solve that puzzle although I'm leaning to it being a Karl von Mueller pen name. warmest wishes and best regards, ss

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

SS--

Sigh. Because I'm not done yet you silly wabbit!

Not a problem. I said I don't accept any new clients. I can always make time for my friends. exanimo, ss

 

[Carl-NC]

KVM would be my guess as well... he seems to have used quite a few pen names.

Thanks for the reply. I was merely suggesting that it is very possible, probably even likely, that all the rumours about Randi are fabricated. I've had the exact same thing done to me.

My interests really aren't dowsing per se, but LRLs... which, as I've found out, are just high-priced dowsing devices, which has sorta led me into dowsing. My challenge is really targeted at LRL manufacturers, who should be willing to prove their devices work, but refuse. I own 20+ LRLs, and none of them work, at all. Two of them came from Dell. I don't think treasure hunters deserve to be ripped off like this, ergo my challenge. If metal detector companies were putting out products that simply did not work, I'd be all over them, too.

- Carl

 

[dowser 501]

Carl, hell you don't even give a man a chance to answer your post re dowsing before claiming there are no dowsers on this thread.I agree there are b...r all dowsers, but there will be the odd one such as myself. I posted a valuable clue of a turtleback heart on this thread, which should have involved debate if there were any other dowsers. Not one comment was forthcoming, also many times in the past I have had the same disinterest on these forums. This is a dreamers forum, nothing else. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE
Why so many respondants argue about a subject that they have no knowledge of whatsoever makes me sometime wonder about the human race.

To prove I could dowse would require a sceptic associated with Randi to live within say an hours driving of where I live. Where I live is important as I am in a area that is thick with targets. There are associated members of the Randi cult who fit this requirement living locally.

AS I never know when dowsing weather is here unless I go outside my back door and test my dowsing rod, I would then have to contact the Sceptic observer who lives an hour away and say that my rod is working, come and observe. As I rely on solar flares for dowsing, they can last for days or 55 minutes or 10 minutes, which makes it tricky, and I do not know what the sceptic observer is doing at that moment. I just thought of something. When my dowsing rod is performing if I could contact you immediately by Skype phone at 3 cents a minute and say, Carl, e-mail me immediately say a few cups on a table with an object underneath one, Gosh, I am still in trouble because of the time difference. Who knows what you are doing if I ring you at 2 hours before dawn if you are not asleep.

If there are any other true fair dinkum dowsers watching this forum they are awfully shy.
Aha I have the solution. E-mail me a photo of say 6-8 or 10 paper cups spaced well apart with an object hidden under several of two objects say one of copper and one of lead, leave them standing in the same place, do not move them. Make the two targets as large as will fit under the cups.
They may stand there for months until a solar flare is strong enough to successfully dowse. I have had one dowsing session of a few minutes three months ago as we are in the last 4 months of a waning of a 11 year cycle.( 2 years of the waxing of the next cycle may be necessary) Will possibly take a couple of years before the solar Flare frequencies improve. You have been knocking my dowsing for years, does it matter if we have to wait a little longer? I feel I can trust your honesty to answer if I am correct, although others would say that we were in collusion. Repeating, it is essential not to touch the cups and hidden objects
after you take the photo, as I will be dowsing in real time not past tense. It would also help me if you sent me a pic of the objects you are hiding, as I would have a better mental picture.
THe objects to be as large as possible to still fit under the cups. The cups to have large numbers stencilled on their upturned bases and to be well spread apart. As I live halfway across the world to you, I need a little help to do what you would consider impossible.
Regards Max

 

[Carl-NC]

Sorry Max, it's just the thread was going hot-n-heavy until I posted, then dead silence. I was about to change my mouthwash, and try again, when it picked back up.

I'll give it a try... just need to find a place where I can put the cups, where they won't get touched for a long time.

Would I need to use a single lump object? Or, ferinstance, can I use a cup full of copper pennies? Which brings up another question... copper pennies aren't pure copper... do you need purity? Spoze I could use chunks of copper tubing.

- Carl

 

[dowser 501]

I find ferrous and non ferrous 2 good opposite comparisons. Say a lump of lead and a piece of iron?

 

[dowser 501]

Dell, this is the type of photo that generates interest amongst genuine treasure seekers as I assume that the name of this forum (treasure Net)
would imply that the readers would in some manner show discussing different genuine treasure finding clues interesting plus swapping comparisons. Dell you read clues to interpret their meanings, not by dowsing them. If this was a classroom and I was a teacher, I would have resigned my position years ago. I have been looking for years for persons who were real dowsers to discuss comparisons and general dowsing and treasure info and techniques. I am still looking for my first contact.
I can still learn off others if I could find them , if they exist.

 

[Sandsted]

I'm still wondering what effects solar flares have on your body. I'm still wondering what effects from solar flares allow you to dowse.

You still haven't explained to me the science behind dowsing.

 

[Captain Trips]

I'm still wondering what effects solar flares have on your body. I'm still wondering what effects from solar flares allow you to dowse.

You still haven't explained to me the science behind dowsing.

That's obvious. There is no science behind dowsing. Science requires an experiment to be verifiable (by double-blind experiment usually, but not always) and repeatable by others than the original claimant.

My motivation in starting this thread was questioned. Okay, here's my motivation: I can not understand why there are so many people who claim they can dowse successfully, and yet not a one is willing to subject themselves to a test to prove what they claim. Dell Winders, you are out of the running -- as you have said, you will not submit to any tests. Okay, you have said so, and you do not need to continue in this thread. In fact, you are one of several who have said they will not be tested. I'm not interested in refusals. I'm interested in takers. I want to know, is there ANYONE here who claims dowsing abilities and are willing to prove it? Yes, I'm a skeptic, I make no apologies for it. I want to believe in many things that have not yet been proven, but will not believe on faith alone. Telepathy used to be one of the things I wanted to believe in, and have had it proven to me. Dowsing is another, and I have yet to have IT proven to me.

Okay, so if you can only dowse under certain conditions, and those conditions are rare, there still can be a way to test it. But it will require work. It has been said that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." And dowsing is an extraordinary claim by definition -- it is "above and beyond" ordinary.

But if you can dowse any time you want to, and can do it successfully, where are you? Why don't you want to prove it? Especially when there is a million dollars available if you can?

Oh, and don't give me numbers of Google hits on "James Randi Lawsuits" -- anyone can post to a forum about their desire to (or question) suing Randi, and those will all generate hits. Hit counts don't prove truth. What does prove how many lawsuits there are against Randi is how many times he's been subpoenaed, and it isn't many. And not one of those cases ever panned out.

So, as the starter of this thread, I ask you: if you say "I refuse to prove my claim" then I've lost interest in you. (Dell, take a hint.) If you say "I can only dowse at random" then I may or may not be interested. If you say "I'd like a chance to prove that I'm honest when I say I can dowse" then we've got something to talk about. I want to know that it can be done by someone proving it, then I want to learn how to do it myself. (And, if I can learn how to do it, I'll go for the megabuck myself! I MAY be willing to share it with my teacher, depending...)

 

[dowser 501]

Sansted , dowsing is powered by geomagnetic flux generated by solar flares that bounce off the moon and bathe your body with the geomagnetic flux. No solar flares means no dowsing. No minimum of a quarter moon to a full moon and then back again to a quarter, no dowsing.

Geomagnetic flux powers the cerebellum cortex on each side of the head which controll the dowsing rod on the opposite side of the body.
Activating the cerebellum cortex by exciting it via the solar flares and reflecting moon controlls many body functions including the minute vibrations of the dowsing hand and thereby twisting the rod or rods inwards at the same time as sending out a radar mental quest for a particular target. If it is there, you will get a mental YES, and if not there you will receive nothing.

The geomagnetic flux powering your dowsing is subject to cancellation
by any object blocking the moonlight that will bathe your body, such as trees, buddings etc. Dowsing is also cancelled out by UV rays from the sun. So use a floppy bush hat to cover the both sides of your head and thereby protecting the Cerebellum. I dowse with a dowsing rod that runs vertically inside the bodies magnetic aura, as that is where the dowsing power lies.
An L Shaped dowsing rod is only using a fraction of its potential, as most of the antenna usage of the L rod lays outside the bodies Aura where your dowsing ability lies. By assembling say 3 lengths of dowsing wire to hang downwards bunched up together, will give you about 30 times more power than an l rod. Or put in another manner, You would only need one thirtieth
of power from the sun to dowse.
I am now using 40 vertical "Look down rods" being maybe hundreds of times more antenna and power for dowsing. Or conversely one four hundreth power is needed. Look up Cerebellum in a dictionary, and you have basically an interpretation of dowsing. Dowsing power ( geomagnetic flux) wlll not penetrate a ceramic tiled roof or a tunnel roof, however a tin roof is ok.

I think I had better copy and file the above as it wears out my right forefinger.

 

[Captain Trips]

Um, no. "Geomagnetic flux" is the intensity of magnetic fields GENERATED BY THE EARTH (look up the meaning of "geo.") It does not come from the sun.

Magnetism does not reflect from the moon. Magnetism does not work that way -- magnetism in and of itself can not be reflected. And if it were, why does it need to be reflected from the moon if generated by the sun? Why not anytime the sun is above the horizon? And magnetism is not subject to the same interference as light -- magnetism goes right through wood as if it didn't exist, to counter one example you use (trees blocking moonlight.) Furthermore, you say a tin roof will not block the "geomagnetic flux" while ceramic will. Sorry, you've got that completely reversed. Magnetism goes right through ceramics the way it does through wood. Magnetism IS blocked by a sheet of metal, though, as metal is a conductor of electricity, and magnetism (of which there is only one form) is stopped by electromagnetic conductors (by the mechanism of converting magnetic force to electron flow, i.e. electricity, although perhaps an electron flow that doesn't leave the metal.)

By what mechanism does Geomagnetism (or any magnetism) power the cerebellum? Such a claim needs to be backed up with an explanation of the biology behind it. In order for a magnetic field to have ANY effect on biological matter, you would need a field the power of an MRI unit - and if that strong a field were to come to the Earth from the moon, you would know by your car keys being drawn towards the moon, instead of staying in your pocket (to give one example of the effect of such a powerful field.)

Before you make claims of the physics and biology of what you think is happening, take a basic course in either science. Once you do so, you'll see why your claims don't make any sense!

 

[aarthrj3811]

Prove it to your self. Nobody can prove it for you. Dell

Thats to simple Dell...Art

 

[digman]

I am reading your comments for days now, most of you are caried away by the big amount of money. Sounds increadile, one million us dollars.
I ask why someone will throw away a milion for nothing? To learn what? Which foundation? Does it exist, or it is another www. address with some crooks behind, looking for honest easy belivers? Do you know the next step? The foundation (foundation and the profesional skeptic- my eye) will ask you an entrance fee, etc, etc,
Immagine now how many easybelivers axist on this planet. Get only a 15% of them and multiply it by the entrance fee. There is the millions for the foundation and the very very professional skepic.
There is no sientific study (nice words - sientific study and proper sientific eperiments with empty boxes - my eye again).
Beware of the crooks. As Dowsers have a gift from mother nature, crooks have too!! They have foundations and give away millions to unknown people.

We do not have to prove to any one that we can dowse. We dowse for our selfs and we share our experiances on this site.

Come on, there are hundreds of them looking for easy way to make easy and tax free money.
they sell oil wells in Africa, the crown of king tzumazuma, and the story goes on.
Imagine if you coud collect a dime from everyone on tis earth. Thats what they are trying to do.

Beware these are www.crooks.org Don't even dream to just taste the bate on such a hook.
By the way, with my rods I have found that this specific foundation has no money at all !!!

Next time go to the armchair gold hunting !!!
One million bucks...Ha...Ha...Ha...
Digman

 

[Carl-NC]

Two of them came from Dell. - Carl

if you are referring to this Dell, that is untrue. I have neither provided ,or sold any products to Carl Moreland.

Good thing I didn't say that I bought them from you. But they did come from you. Got your name written all over them. Oh yeah, forgot about the 3rd one that was loaned to me.

I own 20+ LRLs, and none of them work, at all.

I can't help but notice you did not deny that your products don't work.

- Carl

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Friend Carl, This is no trap and I only want information so I can understand. You state that no one has accepted your challenge but I read an account here of JeffDavis trying. He is some one and posted his results for all to see. Was "no one" a poor choice of words? Or is the "no one" that you refer to the folks who declined to help you design a "fair" test of dowsing? That statement would make sense. You may have already covered this and if so I apologize. As you may have noticed I very rarely read the pro and anti dowsing posts. Even rarer when I join in. exanimo, ss

 

[Captain Trips]

James Randi, Carl Moreland, or Capt. Trips, can learn to dowse much better than I can. It's not a matter of faith, or wish. it's a matter of determination to learn and practice. Practice and learn.
...
....you have the same inherhent ability as I do, and you can learn to dowse with as much, or more accuracy than I do. Prove it to your self. Nobody can prove it for you. Dell

Fine. I'd be glad to. How? I need to learn the skill from someone. So, can you tell me how to dowse successfully? Please? (I'd love to take that million from Randi. I might even be willing to share it with my teacher.)

Really. If you say I can do it, why don't you tell me the procedure? I want to learn.