$1,000,000 for anyone who can dowse.

[dowser 501]

sandsted my dowsing methods are fact not theory. There have been many methods described on this dowsing forum over the years whereon would be dowsers have experimented with attatching magnets to their rods and even to lrl boxes. They have all influenced and added to their dowsing ability a noticeable difference but not enough to dowse and dig by.
Such as applying a strong magnet to the left ear and dowsing with your right hand. A difference is noticed but still not enough to dig by.
To be holding your dowsing rod in your hand when a solar storm is flooding your body with geomagnetic flux is the only time a dowsing rod will work.
To know that you are standing there with the abilty to dowse at a particular
time to be able to take advantage of the correct atmospheric conditions is the secret to dowsing and to recognize the many pitfalls that will cancel out your dowsing if care is not taken. The pitfalls are as numerous as the time taken up with this posting so far. If any one is interested let me know and I will continue if I know I am not wasting my breath and time.

 

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[Captain Trips]

Meta-physical, parapsychic, magic, ESP, call it any of these. If it is being done in a manner that can not be explained by traditional science (or by fakery) then he will pay. But it does have to be a double-blind study. If the jar of water was buried in one acre, and ten seperate acres were searched, the dowswer not knowing which acre had the jar of water, and if the dowser could have pinpointed the jar of water anyway, I'm sure Randi would have admitted that this met the requirements. There must have been some other reason.

As to whether I believe anything, the answer is no. I am a man of science, I accept the scientific method of study. Once something has been proven that way, I KNOW it is real. If it hasn't been proven, I am skeptical, neither believing nor disbelieving.

Just as a point, telepathy. I have conducted my own tests, where I have sent a message to someone and told absolutely no one that I was doing so. When that person, out of the blue, described exactly what I was sending, I then knew telepathy was real. I've done this with several people. One of them even told me that I was so loud about it that she absolutely HAD to tell me so. And before you ask, no, I can't send a message to you. In my experiences, I have had to have a very close emotional relationship with the other person for it to happen. Heck, if my best friend were still alive, I would take him to Florida at my expense and go for the Randi prize myself. But I would do it as a double-blind experiment. For example, I would have one tester mention a random sentence to me, I would send it to my friend, and he would tell a different tester what I sent. Then a third person, who was in neither room, would compare notes from the first two testers. If he determined that the second tester recorded the same random sentence the first one chose, and if this could be repeated as often as one wanted, then I and my friend would be a million dollars richer. Too bad I found out about the challenge after he died. Now, he is not able to go to Florida with me. Heck, he barely talks to me any more. But being dead can have that effect on a friendship.

So, you see, I am willing to be open minded about dowsing also. But I have to see it in action for myself -- and I will accept no less than a proper double-blind study. Anecdotal evidence is no proof.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I can keep my L-Rods from closing with a bar magnet. I can keep my Rods from closing with a non electronic 250 ohm Potentiometer. Can someone with knowledge of electronic keep the rods from working? Every time someone talks about Dowsing on the internet the thread is disrupted by the skeptics. Post above our answers are changed to make our answers look bad. They change their names more often than some people change their underwear. Some use re-mailers to hide who they are. Why should I trust any skeptic to be an honest person? My name is Art Flowers...aarthrj is the name that AOL gave me and I live in No. California

 

[Captain Trips]

So, you have just come up with another excuse to not try. One that does not hold water. What other excuses will you come up with?

There seems to be a bit of hypocricisy here. When someone else gives a reason for not doing Randi's test, you call it an excuse, and because you do not take the Randi Test, you provide it as a reason.

I am very sorry that your close friend has deceased and I am open minded enough to accept it as a legitimate reason, and that you are not just making an excuse for not taking Randi's million dollars. Dell

Yes. I would need him alive in order to prove what we can do. Your dowsing is an individual process. If you could bring my friend back to life, I would no longer have a reason to not take the test, and I would do so. What's your REASON (not EXCUSE) for not taking it? Really. Are you afraid you can't do it under pressure? Or at all?

 

[dowser 501]

Cpt Trips, You expect others to believe in your mind reading experiments and completely ignore any explanation from anyone as experienced as myself, running into my third decade as a very active and successfull mental dowser. If jeff could fix this thread so I can post photos I can still prove my point although it would not be good enough for Randi. I cannot pick my time for demos with Mental dowsing and your guy is dead, so end of story.
Re interesting photos. I have a computer full of photos directly relating to Jesuit treasure caches, and if I cant attatch on this thread I will try elsewhere and let you know where to find them on T/Net

 

[dowser 501]

testing

 

[dowser 501]

I still have a bit of practicing to get my pics right. The above photo has been washed
by the tides twice a day for at least 2 centuries at Sorrento Victoria Australia.

The Jesuits worked this area for nearly two centuries, and I think that a lot of the caches came from central Victoria at the golden triangle which was our equivalent to the California gold fields. We also have immense quantities of silver which means they were brought by the shipload from Mexico? at an earlier stage.
This above heart tells it all. The number seven etched in the left hand side is the most revered number in Christendom, referring to G-d having made the earth in 7 days. And as the Spanish Jesuits had a disease of the heart that could only be cured by gold, “seven” here refers to “gold here”
The imitation crack in the centre is telling you to be aware of booby traps. The only booby traps that I have encountered are overhead deadfalls, although I have pics taken in a Jesuit template trench of Sulphiric acid hand held bombs discovered only recently. Thats another story.
There are two notched vees on the right of the ”seven” numeral which are telling you that there are two caches which are caves chocka block with gold. The numeral “seven “ is rolling over the side of this Petroglyph telling you that you have to dig down to the caches as they are cliffs dead ahead caused by the caves being lifted ages ago by Tectonic Uplift.

The flat right hand edge of this turtleback is pointing to a 30 odd metre ( 100 foot) long cliff face with 9-10 deposits buried well inside the cliff. There are two deposits in each tunnel.
Companion rocks (or trees) are always present where possible. Note the large pointed rock nudging the turtle back and pointing to the right where the multi storage of caches lay.
Near the Numeral “seven” is also a tiny heart and looking to the right bottom is another heart companion rock without the inward curves denoting a heart. They are also accepted heart markers. If this posting is received as educational I think I should follow up with discoveries as I made them in this vicinity, re the billions in gold and let this story come together. in a creditable manner. It is obvious that I have broken most of the Jesuit codes relating to caches after mining, however I did everything back to front. I dowsed out the targets first and then found the clues, otherwise the whole excersize would have been impossible

 

[Sandsted]

dowser501, you say your methods are fact not theory but you don't share either. All you are doing is telling me that you are right and I am wrong and you seem to think that's good enough because you put geomagnetic flux in your sentence.

I am not trying to be rude, but this proves nothing. It's like if I didn't believe the sky was blue. Say I live in a cave and never see the sky, you are trying to convince me it is, but all you are saying is, "The sky is blue." and I ask, "Why is it blue, or how is it blue?" and you say, "The sky is blue."

I need supporting facts, tests, a scientific theory at least, not, "Dowsing doesn't work now because the solar storms aren't right." This is a pathetic attempt to prove your point, I hope you can do better.

Oh, and in response about the test, there was nothing else, the dowser guy wanted a jar of water buried in a 1 acre field and he would walk over the field until he got a reaction, he would point at that spot, if the jar was there he'd get a million, if not he goes home crying.

Nothing more, he posted their emails or letters or something, Randi just wouldn't do it.

 

[dowser 501]

Sandsted,I mentioned prior that dowsing is only a memory and theory until the next solar phase begins in Jan. 2007 and builds up in strength to its peak around 2012 when the frequency of solar flares are by past experience at their peak. At that time if you can recall this conversation, construct a dowsing rod out of a bronze welding wire and mentally see for yourself.

I cannot describe a color such as blue to you if you are blind, you have to learn how to see ( or dowse) for yourself. You cannot dowse to see a color anyway, as dowsing works identical to radar, and in fact is mental radar.
THe only description I can use to relate to dowsing is just imagine you have come to bed in a room which is pitch black.
You do not wish to wake your gently snoring wife and you sleep on the far side of the bed. With dowsing you throw out a mental query and draw a blank for no or receive mental yes. Not wishing to turn the light on, I grope my way around to the far side of the bed obtaining a mental yes at each touch of the side of the bed to reach my side by feel instead of a mental query, I thus gain a mental image of an object that is bed sized.That is mental dowsing. If you want scientific proof Sandsted so do millions of others. That has been the whole problem.

I only know when a solar storm is occurring and if it is facing my way and is of sufficient strength I can dowse. My dowsing results relate directly to the strength of the geomagnetic flux ( not yet scientifically identified ) travelling at nearly the speed of light to bathe my body on earth.
Thru much experimentation, I discovered years ago that geo or electo magnetic flux activates the Cerebellum cortex which scientists have recently discovered activates many activities, and when I hold a strong magnet just above my left ear and hold a dowsing rod in my right fist I can feel the rod come to life, however not sufficiently to dowse and dig by.

 

[Sandsted]

If you tell yourself these things you will get results like this. If you tell yourself you can't dowse because your solar flare activity isn't preferable, then you will not be able to dowse.

My example with the sky being blue is that for me, a cave dweller never seeing the sky, would need more than just your word. There are facts and science behind why the sky is blue, you just have to provide me with these resources. With your solar flare junk you are still just telling me that dowsing doesn't work because the solar flare storm...things aren't bathing your body and the earth or something. This isn't proof, this is just you telling me what is and what isn't, with nothing to support your belief.

Show me a scientific study, give me a theory, don't keep telling me that your expieriences show that YOU can't dowse when these solar flares aren't bathing your body. I don't need solar flares to bathe my body to be able to dowse, I've still been able to dowse ever since I first heard your solar flare story, so pitting my expieraments against yours...my evidence shows that you are wrong.

I can still dowse regardless of the solar flare crap. The only thing that ever does hinder my dowsing is possible my health, and if I'm dowsing outside weather conditions can alter things. If it gets to hot I can't dowse, it's just not right, it doesn't feel right and it doesn't work, no matter how hard I try.

The cave dweller knows what blue (dowsing) is, he knows the color, he doesn't know the sky (your solar flare theory) so enlighten him about the sky, teach him why the sky is blue, the science behind it, not your repeated statement, "THE SKY IS BLUE" (DOWSING DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE SOLAR FLARES AREN'T BATHING YOUR BODY)

 

[Captain Trips]

You know, I didn't have anyone specific in mind when I started this thread. I think that ANYONE who believes they can dowse successfully has NO EXCUSE to not go after a million dollars on a sure thing. If you can do it repeatedly, go for it. If you can't, you can't. That simple.

Oh, and my telepathy story was not intended to be an "I could also, but don't" situation -- I merely posted it to explain that I am open-minded as to the existence of phenomena that aren't explained by science.

So, if one person here says they know they wouldn't be able to perform well enough to take the pot, fine. This thread isn't aimed at you. Don't take things so personally. But to anyone else who says they CAN do it, then put your reputation where your mouth is and do it. No reason not to. Go to www.randi.org and read ALL the information on the challenge. Submit the notarized application. Provide all the pre-test information. Take the preliminary challenge. Then take the final challenge. Money is no object, you'll be getting it back plus a s***load more. Travel isn't an problem-they have testers world wide. Conditions aren't a problem -- they will work with you, and set up any conditions you need prior to the testing, as long as they know about them. (Saying, "sunspots kept me from dowsing successfully" doesn't work -- if sunspots cause a problem, specify the solar cycle you need to be successful and they will accomodate you by only testing during the phase of the cycle that you say you need for success.)

If you just don't want to take the challenge, with the way it's set up to allow for any and all specific conditions to be met, the only conclusion is that you really know you will fail! (As one person has said they would.)

Note: Remember, I am not going up against any one individual here. I am aiming my comments at ANYONE who says dowsing is real and they can prove it. Here's your chance to prove it WITH PROFIT!

 

[Captain Trips]

Each of us can only speak honestly from our own personal experience. We cannot truthfully speak for someone else. I believe you are both honest and truthful about when you can, or cannot mentally Dowse. In my opinion, "Mental" Dowsing is subjective to the limitations of personal belief.

When physics, are incorporated into the equasion it can no longer be considered to be "Mental" Dowsing, and laws of physics are in effect, which impose many restrictions and limitations on "Physical" Dowsing. Dell

"Mental" or "Physical" doesn't matter. Dowsing is dowsing -- if you can dowse, however you do it, you can be a million dollars richer. They don't care about the processes involved, only that you say you can get results and then get them. By whatever means you use, with whatever conditions you need. If you say "I can find x every time" then they will work with you to set up a test to prove it. But the test must be conclusive by scientific means.

Now, I'm aware some people confuse "science" with "Science." Science should be a verb, not a noun. It is a method of studying anything in a specific manner. Double-blind and repeatable experimentation is the scientific method. If it isn't done in that manner, it isn't a science but an art. For example, Chemistry and Alchemy both study the effects of chemical interactions. Chemistry is the science, and Alchemy is the art. One produces results that can be repeated if done in the same manner, the other may or may not produce results even if the same procedures are followed. (By that definition, "Hot" fusion is Chemistry, "Cold" fusion is Alchemy.)

So, what you need to prove is that Dowsing can work in a scientificly studied manner. That's all. If you can dowse for something without knowing where it is (and no one around you knows either, so they can't sub-consciously give you hints) and if you can do it all the time, you win! How hard is that to do?

Really, it IS that simple. Step one: Dowse successfully. Step 2: Dowse successfully repeatedly. Step 3: Profit.

What's stopping you? And don't give me a song-and-dance. Tell me as simply as I stated the test in the above paragraph. Why don't you want to prove that you can do what you say you can do?

 

[ClonedSIM]

You seem to ignore the facts. The so called, Randi Challenge, has never reported anyone ever passing his test in more than 20 years. The odds have proven better at winning the Power ball lottery, than passing Randi's test. What's Randi's excuse? Certainly, a publicity gimmick, is not scientific proof of anything.

The fact that no one has passed Randi's test is indicitive of nothing. All it means is that no one has been successful thus far. It was thought that a man couldn't run a 4-minute mile, until it was done. Poeple thought landing a human on the moon was impossible, until it was done. You think no one can pass Randi's test just because it hasn't been done before, and I say it is possible if the right person with the right abilities applies themselves to passing the test. If you want to compare Randi's test to winning Powerball, then how many times have you won the lottery? If you haven't, then how many tickets have you bought? You can't win unless you play.

 

[Captain Trips]

What do you hope to gain? Attention for Randi?

Nope. Truth.

Why has no one won the million? Simple. Because no one who has applied has been able to actually do what they claim they can.

Remember: KISS. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Or, Occam's Razor: The simplest answer must be the correct one. And the simplest answer to why no one has won is the one I gave above. No one has won it because no one has won it YET.

No, I am not a shill for Randi. I am a seeker of the truth. And I would LOVE it if dowsing worked. But I need proof. Randi's challenge is a good way to get to the truth. Your brow-beating isn't.

If you can do it, prove it. If you can't, I'm not interested.

 

[dowser 501]

Cpt Trips, I read that a dowser has to dowse successfully and heres the catch "CONSISTANTLY." I feel that given the right atmospheric conditions I could commence dowsing correctly, however as I can only dowse for a few seconds at a time before fading out, to dowse 10 or twenty times spot on would be impossible.
The Randi test is an impossible quest.
As a point of interest, dowsing only for short bursts is quite adequate when seeking an underground target. How can a person devise a test re a subject he knows nothing about?
When I was a school kid an English teacher wouldn't devise a maths test.
I am fairly sure that I could succeed 4 or 5 times in a row but no more before fading out mentally, even less if the testing was stretched out time wise.
Good enough to pinpoint 4 or 5 Jesuit treasures, but not good enough for Randi.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Randi's and Carls are Flawed

This so called Double Blind test will only prove if some one can win the money. It will not prove that dowsing works or not. It may or may not prove that one person can pass the test. Your may want to read a little about Double Blind Tests. In a single-blind experiment, the individual subjects do not know whether they are so-called "test" subjects or members of an "experimental control" group. In a double-blind experiment, neither the individuals nor the researchers know who belongs to the control group and the experimental group. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-blind
This guy gives some interesting facts about Double Blind Testing. http://naturalscience.com/ns/articles/01-15/ns_leavitt.html

 

[Carl-NC]

Same ol' debate...

OK, it appears that dowsing proponents all agree that Randi's challenge is fundamentally flawed, or unfair, or whatever.

So, let's hear from the dowsers... what would be a fair test of YOUR dowsing ability?

I'm not interested in a "consensus" test, or what non-dowsers believe would be a Good Test for dowsers.

If YOU believe that you can dowse, and you wanted to demonstrate that ability to someone else*, what would you do?

- Carl

* Let's say, just for fun

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Dell, A quick search on google reveals some 123,000 listings when searching for "James Randi lawsuits". I imagine you would get similar results searching for "James Randi scam" or "James Randi fraud". James Randi was offered a real test of dowsing with a $1 million dollar prize bet on digital dowsers some years back. He declined to comment or participate although his minions monitor the site and occasionally try to defend his reputation. Quite simply the terms of the offer were that a team of five dowsers compete against any five geologists selected by randi. The targets would be unknown oil and water wells with a $50,000 prize for each hit and a total of ten targets for each team. Total prize pool would have been $1 million. Should have been a slam dunk for the "dig anywhere crowd". I believe you will find details on the sleight of hand scams on film in the archives of digital dowsers - ISD and digital dowsers-photon. To find pending actual lawsuits you would need to ask the law department at any university to direct you to the links for legal research that are used by lawyers and paralegals. All of my xerox copies did not survive my flood. The toner washes off the pages in the water. At one time I cared about those types of things. Die a couple times and they become very less than important. exanimo is a signoff. ss = siegfried schlagrule is my handle here

 

[ClonedSIM]

The fact that no one has passed Randi's test is indicitive of nothing.]

You are right af1733, the test proves nothing. It's usless except as a publicity gimmick. If it has you suckered, it appears to be working as intended. The difference between Randi's test, and the lottery, is that people win the lottery. Poor Randi, can't make any such a claim about his challenge, no matter how easy he tries to make it sound.

If your hunting methods won't work 7 out of 10 times, then you should find a different hunting method.....

It was thought that a man couldn't run a 4-minute mile, until it was done.

Not me! i was running the mile in less than 4 minutes a year and a half before it was announced. I didn't know that I was doing anything that some folks considered impossibe. In my own wisdom, I've learned not to place anything beyond the realm of possibility, even if I haven't done it myself. Dell

Ummm, okay then....

 

[Carl-NC]

So, let's hear from the dowsers... what would be a fair test of YOUR dowsing ability?

If YOU believe that you can dowse, and you wanted to demonstrate that ability to someone else, what would you do?

I guess there are no dowsers here. If no one participating in this thread can dowse, then why is there even a discussion?

- Carl