1618 8 real copy (Was Information please. Cobs.)

[Tuberale]

Cob A: looks Spanish, about the size of a Peace dollar, maybe slightly heavier.

Cob B: (photos to come next post) about the size of a nickel, one of several eroding from a hillside in Southern California, in perhaps better shape than the others. I'll post more (different) when I relocate them.

 

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[Tuberale]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Two photos of the smaller cob, slightly thicker than a nickel but close to same size overall.

Another photos of the larger spanish cob on its side, showing variable thickness.

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

More about cobs:

Larger cob: said to be rare, from Savannah, GA, Spanish cob.

Smaller cob: said to have been found along with about 30 others eroding out of a hillside in extreme Southern California after hot fires a few years ago. Surface of coin appears brownish, but quickly turns silvery when cleaned with acetone, then fairly rapidly turns back to brownish (within 24 hours or so). I believe there is a visible date of 1625 (or 1623) on the right side of this coin, and it may have a C on the left reverse.

Grateful for any comments on what these might be, and/or what the ornamentation on the coins represent.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

First coin: 8-reales (flat topped castles and lions look weird--perhaps too weird)
Second coin: Spanish maravedis
Don...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Im pretty sure the first cob is a known fake. Ill have to search my records for a match. Who says its rare? It looks bad. Is it silver?

 

[Diver_Down]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Im pretty sure the first cob is a known fake. Ill have to search my records for a match. Who says its rare? It looks bad. Is it silver?

It looks like cast pot metal. I've seen better fantasy pieces sold on St. George St. in the numerous tourist souvenir shops. The second is a legit copper maravedis that is worth more than the repro.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Here it is. No two cobs are alike so its a copy.

It would be interesting to see if its silver. Either way its not real.

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Thanks everyone.

@ Mackaydon: thought it might be, but doesn't have any indication of date that I can see. Agree it may be a copy.

@ bigcypresshunter: the coin flip it came in said "RARE SAV. (Savannah) 8040 Spanish COB"

@Diver_Down: It might be. It is nearly the same weight or perhaps slightly heavier than the silver Peace dollar. Is pot metal similar to weight to silver? Regarding the maravedis: have many of these all from the same place (cache?). Will try to find some of the others, and post before and after cleaning photos. After acetone treatment, they sometimes become much more silvery colored, sometimes more copper-colored.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

@ bigcypresshunter: the coin flip it came in said "RARE SAV. (Savannah) 8040 Spanish COB"

Something completely made up. Its not rare and has no connection to Savannah unless that is were it was sold or found. These common souvenirs are often tossed away or lost and later found.

I agree the Marevedi looks real.

 

[Diver_Down]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Well, the repro might have indeed been found in Savannah. It more likely was found in a souvenir shop on River St. in Savannah. They, too, like to tout their pirate heritage. At least St. Augustine has documented proof of being directly tied to Drake and Searle.

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

I have searched through my coins again. Found another 10 of these critters. While most appear to be copper or maybe bronze, at least 3 are apparently very thin silver. One is less than the diameter of a dime. Another is almost the diameter of a quarter. All of what I believe may be silver are extremely thin, similar to a couple of silver coins that I own that were salvaged from the shipwreck of the El Cazador (1784). Unlike the El Cazador coins, my silver-like coins appear very rough, angular, and barely have any impression on them.

Should I try posting photos of those coins here, or start new threads?

 

[realeswatcher]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

...at least 3 are apparently very thin silver. One is less than the diameter of a dime. Another is almost the diameter of a quarter. All of what I believe may be silver are extremely thin, similar to a couple of silver coins that I own that were salvaged from the shipwreck of the El Cazador (1784). Unlike the El Cazador coins, my silver-like coins appear very rough, angular, and barely have any impression on them.

It sounds as though you have a few lower-grade half-real and 1 real pieces. Post a picture of the silver pieces, front and back, and at least a general attribution can be given.

The chunky piece was the castle front and lion back is a 1625 copper 8 maravedis from Spain, Cuenca mint. More info in the other thread started on it...

RE: the cast replica 8 Reales - yes, it's definitely a replica of a Mexico mint 8R, and a frequently encountered one. Note that your cross side is upside down... the poor lions are standing on their heads :-< ... Because of the distinct over-assayer (note the clear D over F left of the shield), you can peg the design specifically to 1618 - the piece is basically intended as an example of what was found on the Atocha wreck.

Tuber, if you could change the title of this thread to something like "replica of Atocha-era 1618 Mexico 8 Reales", that might be helpful for other people's future reference...

The Savannah thing... heh. My immediate thought was of a rather notorious high-volume eBay coin seller based in Savannah who was peddling all sorts of fakes and/or cleaned/"doctored" coins as Savannah estate pieces. Had a bunch of different IDs over time... I think they were finally shut down for good several years back. I would not at all be surprised if this was where that cast replica 8 Reales originated.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

It's not a cast. It's a completely made up replica piece probably partially formed by by using a wax pen.

If I do a jewelry class next semester I will make up something wild, either a bunch of castles and lions in a design or maybe a Star of Lima gold coin.

Go ahead and post pics of whatever you have. It's too quiet in here.

Very few copper cobs of that year could be found in California. I may have found the only pre 1600 marevedis ever found and documented in California and that was right on the beach at a known wreck site.

Worth a look I guess.

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Information please. Cobs.

Thanks to both cuzcosquirrel and realeswatcher. I must mark the coin identified now and rename the thread to 1618 8 reale copy. I couldn't have done that without everyones help on this thread!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have pics of the exact same cast replica found by other members if your interested. You were not the first person fooled.
These are extremely common (opposite of rare) and it comes in "gold" as well. The value is minimal.

 

[Tuberale]

Thanks, bigcypresshunter. I'm just as gullible as the next guy. I probably would have bought the copy, just to have an idea of what they looked like.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks, bigcypresshunter. I'm just as gullible as the next guy. I probably would have bought the copy, just to have an idea of what they looked like.

I dont have them all rotated correctly but if you study them carefully you will see they are all identical. No two real cobs can be identical because they are cut in odd sizes and hand stamped..



Notice the 6th pic down found by TN member Beach Whale has a hole in it. Look carefully you will see all the others have the same mark in the same place where the hole was because they were cast from the same pattern. You will see the hole (filled in) in your correctly rotated cob in the upper right. I thought this was interesting.

 

[Tuberale]

I see it, bigcypresshunter. That is a little more than just, uh, accidental.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

These guys here on this forum are pretty good, Im still learning about cobs but here is Sedwicks database of known fakes. It has probably been posted here before. http://www.sedwickcoins.com/fake_cobs.htm

 

[Tuberale]

Thanks again, bigcypresshunter. I've seen that photo before, probably in a history book I've got about the Spanish in the New World.

I know most valuable coins have had copies made of them, most recently by the Chinese. Glad those are now supposed to have COPY or REPLICA stamped on them.

I'm wondering whether I need to somehow stamp that information on my fake cob now. Anyone have an idea?