1774 2 REALES

[odave]

I found this on the shore of a Lake in Northern California
It's a CAROLUS III DEI GRATIA 1774
It showed a VDI # 82 I'm thinking Quarter
I was very shocked to see a 2 Reales
Excited was an understatement

The question I have is what is the J R after the 2r on the back of the coin?
I identified the coin in 2008 North American coins & Prices Page 415
And are those lines in the coin for cutting it up?

Thanks Dave

 

[RELICDUDE07]

DON ,i just used it to show the Milled 1/2 reales cut and the 1 and 2 reales all cut up.. Alot of people didnt think they cut the small size coins.I guess this place must have changed history... They cut everything even copper/brass coins,they were still cutting coins into the seated coin timeline..We have a few seated dimes and quarters that were all cut up.. People just wanted to be paid in silver for there goods/trade ,they didnt care how nice the pie shapes looked..

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

http://www.numismatics.org/cnl/Pistareens.pdf

I will agree it is possible but not logical for that particular coin, but perhaps a dum dum was the owner.

Don

Those "dum dums" dropped a lot of coppas for you, Don.

I am looking forward to what you fellers will find out!

Kyle

P.S. RELICDUDE07, you rock, buddy!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

It would be nice for buckleboy to do the X drawing on this coin It may show a different style of cutting pie shapes..If you get some time..I think the c.c. quarter shows how they would cut and spend as needed.And that 2 reale buckleboy has does too..........

 

[Kas]

Obviously they had a reason for cutting up these coins, and that was to make change. I'm aware of the denominational cutting for a 8 reale, 2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits, a dollar, ie. where the saying came from, and 25, 50, 75 cents, 4 pieces.

So what's the denomination for a 2 reale, if a 2 reale is only worth a quarter? That's 6.25 cents per 1/4 cut piece. I've never read anything about on the history of reales that speak of cutting anything other than an 8 reale.
Help me out here.

Ken

 

[Don in SJ]

I have shown the photo to two top colonial coin experts and both without hesitation said the marks are a design and not for cutting into pieces for use as change.
There opinions are the equivalent of sending a coin to any of the authorized slab companies and in fact, more knowledgeable than most of those companies concerning colonial coinage.

Cobs were used mainly in the South, were mainly used into the 1700's. They as I stated previously are the ones that are "cut" into funny shapes, not milled coins which were later and they were cut into pie portions and no written documentation proving otherwise.
Again, not saying someone could try it, to get away with it, but coins are marked in many mysterious ways, people were bored, people did weird things to coins and perhaps the coin in question, may not have been accepted any more by the general public and putting a design on it and keeping it as a pocket piece sure was a possibility.

The attached photo shows a Large Cent my son found, it has a raised + on it, again, no rhyme or reason why, people did what people did back then...............

Dave's 2 Reale is a very nice find. It is one with history and has a design engraved on it by some unknown individual.... Perhaps lost by someone going to the Gold fields during the great gold rush.


Don

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

I have shown the photo to two top colonial coin experts and both without hesitation said the marks are a design and not for cutting into pieces for use as change.
There opinions are the equivalent of sending a coin to any of the authorized slab companies and in fact, more knowledgeable than most of those companies concerning colonial coinage.

Cobs were used mainly in the South, were mainly used into the 1700's. They as I stated previously are the ones that are "cut" into funny shapes, not milled coins which were later and they were cut into pie portions and no written documentation proving otherwise.
Again, not saying someone could try it, to get away with it, but coins are marked in many mysterious ways, people were bored, people did weird things to coins and perhaps the coin in question, may not have been accepted any more by the general public and putting a design on it and keeping it as a pocket piece sure was a possibility.

The attached photo shows a Large Cent my son found, it has a raised + on it, again, no rhyme or reason why, people did what people did back then...............

Dave's 2 Reale is a very nice find. It is one with history and has a design engraved on it by some unknown individual.... Perhaps lost by someone going to the Gold fields during the great gold rush.


Don

I, for one, don't 100% believe what the "Colonial coin" experts may say. Firstly, they weren't living during those times, so how could they guarantee that these sort of coins weren't cut in odd ways in order to make small change? Secondly, I would like to say that I love you, Don...in a metal datecting sense.

America's early settlers were all unique in their own way, and we'll never know the complete truth behind every mystery.

Kyle

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Thats to bad odave It looked to me like it would have looked just like buckleboys the next day,if they hadnt have lost it..I guess those guys were so good at cutting those coins, they could do it without any marks to go by..It looks like don and them experts are always right

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thats to bad odave It looked to me like it would have looked just like buckleboys the next day,if they hadnt have lost it..I guess those guys were so good at cutting those coins, they could do it without any marks to go by..It looks like don and them experts are always right

Let's keep it civil here.


I was playing devil's advocate--and pretty excited about maybe finding something that the experts didn't know of...but I don't think there's a case with only two examples. If others come forward, perhaps. But until then, we're left to wonder.

-Buckles

 

[RELICDUDE07]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DF1E3CF933A05754C0A96F948260# Each area had its own way of cutting the coins..

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DF1E3CF933A05754C0A96F948260# Each area had its own way of cutting the coins..

Great article, Relicdude! As I said to Don earlier in this post, America's early settlers were all unique in their own way. Settlers in one general area of the country might have cut them differently than others.

Kyle

 

[romeo-1]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DF1E3CF933A05754C0A96F948260# Each area had its own way of cutting the coins..

A buddy of mine, and a member of this forum, found one of the holes from the PEI Holey dollars. A grail find for anyone.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Hey romeo-1, Did he ever post a pic on tnet? Man i would love to see that..I have seen some of the rings before, but not the middle..I know a guy that has been searching for the ship full of them for many years ,i hope he finds them oneday..

 

[Colonial KirkPA]

http://www.numismatics.org/cnl/Pistareens.pdf

I will agree it is possible but not logical for that particular coin, but perhaps a dum dum was the owner.

Don

Don, when you said, "Dum dum," I think you actually meant "bum bum." I dedicate this song to you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jPT2JdqQYak

Kirk

 

[odave]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE1DF1E3CF933A05754C0A96F948260# Each area had its own way of cutting the coins..

Very interesting !! Thanks for posting it .

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Your welcome..Thats a great piece of our history.I found one of those ring and dumps online they spoke of in the article.. Keep us posted with your finds from the lake....

 

[dfxone]

Carverwood asked on June 11, 2008 what did they saw. clip, or cut these reales with when making change. No one answered his question, I ask the same question. It would be very interesting to me to know what tool they used in those days to do this. Great pictures and fantastic find. Wish those reales could talk and let us know how and what route they traveled to get to where they were found. Great post, GH, Don

 

[49r Relics]

First of all, congratulations on your find! It gives me some encouragment as I also live in Northern, CA (Send me a PM if you ever want to hit the road with me and a couple other NorCal Tnet'rs)

This post has become very educational and engaging. It just goes to show that you guys really know your history, coins, etc.

HH, Mark

 

[birdman]

WTG ! Amazing piece of history and also this post has turned out to be a great history lession!!

 

[Colonial Zoyboy]

http://www.numismatics.org/cnl/Pistareens.pdf

I will agree it is possible but not logical for that particular coin, but perhaps a dum dum was the owner.

Don

Don, when you said, "Dum dum," I think you actually meant "bum bum." I dedicate this song to you.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jPT2JdqQYak

Kirk

Another classic post by Colonial KirkPA

 

[odave]

Thats to bad odave It looked to me like it would have looked just like buckleboys the next day,if they hadnt have lost it..I guess those guys were so good at cutting those coins, they could do it without any marks to go by..It looks like don and them experts are always right

Let's keep it civil here.


I was playing devil's advocate--and pretty excited about maybe finding something that the experts didn't know of...but I don't think there's a case with only two examples. If others come forward, perhaps. But until then, we're left to wonder.

I agree with this !!! Future finds may add light to this, the truth of this find is based on science, and evidence.
And wonder we will,,, Good replies BuckleBoy.
Funny thing.... after finding this coin,,,Finding Clad is just not as fun anymore

Dave