2017 SB2 exempt - not paying 75$ for recorders fee

[Garrote Gold]

I just talked with Tuolumne county recorder, they said if Im putting in my notice of intent to hold papers on existing claim and want to get around the new $75 dollar charge that I could write "2017 SB2 exempt" at the bottom since its not real property and just a mining claim with BLM. My 20 acres in tuolumne is not property taxed to begin with. Any one have thoughts on this or filed a notice of intent to hold yet with your recorder? Im looking at $13 per page if I can avoid the 75$

https://www.tuolumnecounty.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/9894

 

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[loco oro]

A mining claim, if valid, is real property, and transferable, inheritable, but public accessible, which wiaves tax liability, along with noncomercialization, although you must pay tax on all income from said property, 75bucks,pay it and record, if dispute arises, what are you to say?

 

[ghostminer]

Just talked to Clerk Recorder at Plumas County. They tell me that does not apply & I must pay the $75 fee per filing.

 

[loco oro]

Clay diggings is the expert on this area of discussion ,I would take his advisement onthis subject.

 

[ghostminer]

Wrong on tax liability. I pay taxes to Plumas county on our claims every year. I believe it's $1.15 per acre.

 

[winners58]

seems like a location or quit claim deed would need to pay the $75
but a NOIH or or affidavit of assessment are contract obligations with BLM for filing a small miners waver.
You could try just putting the stamp on it, file early in case there are objections, if they accept it, that's all BLM cares about.
https://www.tuolumnecounty.ca.gov/1021/Forms

more likely is miners in California will have to lobby/raise a big stink and get an exemption pushed through the legislature.

 

[Garrote Gold]

https://www.tuolumnecounty.ca.gov/214/Recorder-Home-Page

some one can call up, my county jeez....... I pay no taxes on 20acres, Tuolumne county is different than plumas, but again here they go out of your way to help avoid cost so it sounded like she was helping me out or giving me bad/wrong advice......
here is the page about the bill on county site
https://www.tuolumnecounty.ca.gov/1086/Senate-Bill-2-2017

here is exemption form details
https://www.tuolumnecounty.ca.gov/DocumentCenter/View/9884

 

[ghostminer]

Here are exemptions as per Plumas Gov Page. Looks like a $225 cap. http://www.countyofplumas.com/DocumentCenter/View/17263

 

[Asmbandits]

Wrong on tax liability. I pay taxes to Plumas county on our claims every year. I believe it's $1.15 per acre.

FYI, different counties do this differently, for example the El Dorado county tax assayer told me that my 20 acre claim is exempt from property tax. I want to say he said if its under 40 acres it is exempt but I'm not 100%.

 

[ghostminer]

Yes, I think it's up to each county.

 

[Johnnybravo300]

No wonder there are so many claim jumpers there. They don't want to pay those crazy fees!
Much cheaper to dig at your claim.....

The lawmakers never seem to understand the basics of economics or human behavior.
And they never want to deal with their aftermath.

 

[Goldwasher]

There's a list of exemptions at the recorders office. I've been in twice and asked twice. Mining claim recordings a re real estate and not exempt.

 

[Hoser John]

The tax is a USURY tax on your mineral rights. I've had it change back and forth in many counties over the years. Trinity said for years tax-then none for about 10 years-now taxed yet again. Crazy arse state-John

 

[Clay Diggins]

The $75 fee (not a tax) is applied to real estate recordings (not mineral rights). Mining claims are real estate. The $75 fee applies in all counties in California as it's a State law.

Mining claim taxes are a different issue. Those taxes are imposed per county. I seem to recall there are five counties in the United States that charge those taxes. There are hundreds of counties that do not charge taxes. If you don't like your mining claims being taxed you need to convince your County representatives to remove that local tax.

Mining Claim taxes and California State real estate document fees are two entirely different issues. Apples and Oranges.

Heavy Pans

 

[RobertF]

You don't get to have it both ways, if you want the benefits of your mining claim being real property, you're gonna get saddled with the fees/taxes they attach to them.

And really, if your claim isn't worth the extra $75, is it actually worth mining it?

 

[Garrote Gold]

Has anyone from Tuolumne got a the same or different story from the recorder? Out of the 400 claims in tuolumne, any paid 75$ yet when recording docs? Why did they tell me otherwise? has anyone talked to the recorder to clarify this? If she is giving bad information then what gives?

 

[RobertF]

Kern County gave me the exemption form too when I asked for the fee schedule but it came across as a "if you think you qualify for an exemption, we can't stop you from trying..."

 

[Garrote Gold]

thats same feel i got.......

 

[Clay Diggins]

There's a list of exemptions at the recorders office. I've been in twice and asked twice. Mining claim recordings a re real estate and not exempt.

California Government Code § 27388.1 Buildings Homes and Jobs Act

EXEMPTIONS:

A declaration of valid exemption may be placed on the face of each document, or on a document cover page, which shall become part of the document, prior to depositing with the Recorder.

If no valid exemption is declared, the tax will be assessed.

The following exemptions which may apply include:
1. GC 27388.1 (a) (2) – documents subject to the imposition of documentary transfer tax (DTT) and the DTT is paid at the time of recording;
2. GC 27388.1 (a) (2) - documents recorded "in connection with" a transfer subject to the DTT;
3. GC 27388.1 (a) (2) - documents recorded "in connection with" a transfer of real property that is an owner occupied residential dwelling;
4. GC 27388.1 (a) (1) - documents recorded "in connection with" a transfer in which tax cap of $225 has been already reached; or,
5. GC 27388.1 (a) (1) - documents not related to real property.

Failure to declare an exemption will result in the imposition of the $75 Building Homes and Jobs Act tax .

Taxes collected are deposited to the State and may not be available for refund.

All that and more can be found in the PDF. There is some interesting stuff in there.

I wrote before that enforcement and interpretation of this law is ultimately going to come down to the County Recorder. County Recorders are elected officials beholding to the county residents and the public at large. Legally it's kind of hard for a State agent to coerce or arrest an elected official. (You might want to pay attention to the next County Recorder election *wink *wink)

I'm not sure it would be wise to declare your mining claim to not be real estate. That could be interpreted several ways besides outright fraud. Maybe none of them good. But heck, maybe I'm missing something?

The Supreme Court has ruled many times that your mineral interest in the land is indeed real estate. That's a good thing for miners. Might want to leave it right there and pay the $75 fee.

Or not.

Sup 2 U

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

if you claim an exemption and don't qualify I think your recording doesn't count when they find out.

I went over the exemptions with the recorders office here and none apply to mining claims.
$225 cap would mean you don't pay more than $225 but not less or not at all.

The main exemption is a transfer tax being applied gets you out of the fee.

So, not for mining claims as the recordings related to claims are considered real estate documents.

if you have multiple claims you are filing one document yearly so, it should just be $75 bucks.

Your first year you will have to pay a fee for locating. Then again in the fall for your NOI if you file SMW at BLM. So $150 bucks your first calendar year(ish)

After that if you don't locate anymore claims that year you will pay $75 bucks for your proof of labor the following fall.

Serialize your claims so you are recording one document for multiple claims.
It saves you on page charges anyway.

That's if it is at the minimum $75 per document fee rate.

The El Dorado county recorder said it would be.