A GUIDE TO VAULT TREASURE HUNTING (Condensed)

[Treasure Auras]

Thanks CDS yes there are many different gods deities etc. of turtles. However I propose that we take a more practical approach and ask this, does anybody know of any ancient books that possibly may give a clue as to why the Turtles and Treasures may be connected. They say the Spanish were excellent record keepers surly they have something written down that could point us in the right direction this could bring us back to a much earlier time as well even to a different people, I mean has anybody heard of the knights templars using turtles in this way? or even earlier even back to the Egyptian times. I am just trying to open up the search so not everyone is focused in the wrong area, I am not saying the Spanish didnt create the code but you can bet this is from the Religious sect. Wise men of the Time and it would have been documented well.

 

[Carl-NC]

I am going to ask a simple question and see if anybody can agree on the answer. We all Know that Turtles have been made to mark treasures. So now to the Question: Why was a Turtle used as a symbol to represent a treasure, is it Mythology or Nature or some Fairy tale made up by the Indians or some religious ideology from some far off land? In other words Who decided a Turtle should be used for Treasure?

Finally, an interesting question! But I would like to probe a little deeper. You say, "We all Know that Turtles have been made to mark treasures." How do we even know that? I have a number of books on treasure signs and they all include turtles, but these books never seem to show a real-life carved turtle symbol, just sketch drawings. I cannot recall ever seeing a photograph of a carved turtle symbol. I see lots of photos of turtle rocks but those are a dime-a-dozen, and I think that because it is so easy to find turtle-looking rocks that they have become popular in treasure folklore.

Next, has anyone ever followed a turtle marker (of any kind) that resulted in a hold-in-your-hand treasure recovery? This brings up another often-ignored fallacy: If the Spanish (or whoever) had developed a system of treasure symbols with any kind of consistency (as we are led to believe), then anyone who understood the symbols could recover their treasure. In other words, by using these understood markers they are leaving a public treasure map for anyone to follow. Doesn't seem like a good way to hide something unless you want someone else to find it.

Of all the books I have, Coronado's Children (1930) seems to be the earliest recording of a lot of the popular treasure symbols, including the turtle. In the book, Dobie says, "A register of these signs, collected and deciphered for the most part by a lawyer who refuses to allow the disclosure of his name, is now—for the first time, I believe—printed." So a lawyer is willing to give away the keys to finding treasure, but wants to remain anonymous? For me, this is a red flag. So now the question is, is there any published reference of treasure symbols prior to 1930? Or did Dobie make it all up?

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Hmmm... There you go again... OK, Here's a pic that makes a fair depiction of a turtle, which, although there's apparently not that much carving on this'n, it's just one angle... And...
IDK about everyone else, but honestly to me, your rant is quite Boring... perhaps you'd learn more... Get outside away from your drawings, somewhere in the country there's lots of rocks & take pics.
Who knows, you may even find something interesting to talk about yourself, instead of just seeing pics or drawings... Gee this seems like a rude approach, who doesn't know where yer comin' from?
Should just ignore your questions, because seems like we been here before. If your books & drawings cannot reveal anything to you, perhaps it's just not in the cards that anyone can possibly help.

Since you don't seem to really believe anything of sandy1's info he's generously made available to everyone, or any of the rest of us... anyway...
Maybe it's just a misunderstanding. & No Comprende., OR maybe you're right, it's ALL just been made up.
You're the last person I'd ever even consider taking, or giving time, to show anything too.
If you haven't gotten out in some of these states where people have said
they've seen signs, & shared their natural, untouched pics, Carl go
hike, take your own pics, & see what you can find out...
You can possibly answer your own questions...
But right now, sandy1 is talking dude.

 

[Treasure Auras]

I never would have thought a turtle leading to treasure was ever in question after the plethora of written treasure books over the years about the turtle signs having to do with treasure not to mention my pictures of turtles at treasure sites to me this is a absolute in treasure hunting or as Calvin Keys said "Turtles Lead to treasure"

 

[Mattock]

Very interesting discussion about the turtle. My belief the turtle came from the Aztec. Never give up on the treasure Trail Sandy 1 is here to show you the correct way.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

So, did the Aztecs come up with all of the ideas believed ((or some of them), used & associated with treasures, or, did someone possibly from another far off place teach them?
I think the beginnings, appear were everywhere, & it seems very interesting so many societies revered the turtle so much. The Lore is understandable, but are turtles all of that?
Spiritual? Mystical? I think the hatched out turtles climbing out of the sand, running for the water, hoping to survive the waiting predators is pretty amazing, When they make it.
For that visual reason seeing the turtle documentary video, land Turtles, & especially Sea Turtles, are one of my favourite treasure symbols, a Truly Amazing Ocean Creature...

 

[sdcfia]

Finally, an interesting question! But I would like to probe a little deeper. You say, "We all Know that Turtles have been made to mark treasures." How do we even know that? I have a number of books on treasure signs and they all include turtles, but these books never seem to show a real-life carved turtle symbol, just sketch drawings. I cannot recall ever seeing a photograph of a carved turtle symbol. I see lots of photos of turtle rocks but those are a dime-a-dozen, and I think that because it is so easy to find turtle-looking rocks that they have become popular in treasure folklore.

Next, has anyone ever followed a turtle marker (of any kind) that resulted in a hold-in-your-hand treasure recovery? This brings up another often-ignored fallacy: If the Spanish (or whoever) had developed a system of treasure symbols with any kind of consistency (as we are led to believe), then anyone who understood the symbols could recover their treasure. In other words, by using these understood markers they are leaving a public treasure map for anyone to follow. Doesn't seem like a good way to hide something unless you want someone else to find it.

Of all the books I have, Coronado's Children (1930) seems to be the earliest recording of a lot of the popular treasure symbols, including the turtle. In the book, Dobie says, "A register of these signs, collected and deciphered for the most part by a lawyer who refuses to allow the disclosure of his name, is now—for the first time, I believe—printed." So a lawyer is willing to give away the keys to finding treasure, but wants to remain anonymous? For me, this is a red flag. So now the question is, is there any published reference of treasure symbols prior to 1930? Or did Dobie make it all up?

Your doubts are likely well-founded. The "Spanish treasure symbols" we are all familiar with are alleged to be part of a standardized procedure known as the "King's Code", set up as a template of sorts to create carvings, maps, waybills, etc. in order to mark and document locations of all those New World mines and hidden caches so that they could be relocated and retrieved later. Much of this seemed to come to light during the 1920s/30s, even though there's no evidence that such a standardized method existed in the colonial Spanish era in the Americas.

Interestingly, also during this same period was the alleged heyday of KGC activity, wherein many precious metals caches were allegedly created and hidden by that organization, many marked with contemporary faked "Spanish signs". Just sayin'.

Lots of rocks look like turtles, you're right. Are there any actual turtle carvings too? Yes, of course - here's a couple found in a part of New Mexico known for treasure rumors. One has seven dots on his back.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Sorry, I don't believe I'd ever show either one of you Any treasure.
Too bad you don't seem to conceive, & just "Follow The Signs"
till you dig up your own whatever, are you like, even trying?
If you expect too much, it makes the questions ingenuine.
sandy1 keeps very kindly giving 2 those can see & hear.
Naysayers however, are definitely a dime a 12 dozen.
Sorry sandy1 pardon me, I'm done... & I do think
your preface is leading up to something cool...

Edit: When you Capture a definite good Aura, all the way to ground & up (like you said is your basic standard sandy1) close by a noticeably marked turtle & the other markers, Game On!

 

[Carl-NC]

I never would have thought a turtle leading to treasure was ever in question after the plethora of written treasure books over the years about the turtle signs having to do with treasure not to mention my pictures of turtles at treasure sites to me this is a absolute in treasure hunting or as Calvin Keys said "Turtles Lead to treasure"

Yes, turtles show up in all of the "symbols and signs" books that I have. Here's a few from Bill Mahan's book:

But where did Mahan get these from? If he saw them in the wild, then why are there no photos? In fact, why are there never any photos in these treasure sign books? Just sketches. (Adams' Golden Tome is an exception.) I'm not talking about turtle-shaped rocks, heck, I see those all the time.

When someone asks me about a particular treasure legend, I always suggest they trace it back to the earliest documented evidence. Often that lands them in a "True Treasure" article from the 60s which, if that's the earliest evidence there is, you can be pretty sure it was fabricated right then and there. As far as I can tell, tracing back the turtle lore lands me in Dobie's book. And Dobie got it from a secret lawyer (not just an ordinary joe). My question is, is this as far back as one can trace turtle lore?

Lots of rocks look like turtles, you're right. Are there any actual turtle carvings too? Yes, of course - here's a couple found in a part of New Mexico known for treasure rumors. One has seven dots on his back.

Thanks, Steve! It's nice to see real evidence. I've heard of the King's Code lore but never seen enough evidence to budge it off of a "Tain't likely" reading. I'd love to see anything pre-Dobie on treasure symbols if anyone has a reference. I think there were two major periods of treasure lore invention: the Great Depression, and the "treasure magazine" heyday. That seems to be when a lot of stories originated. Maybe turtles, I don't know.

Sandy, I think your question is spot on. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Just showed you ONE, sitting in a Spanish treasure yard of turtles
That's not good enough for you, thinking someone will show you somethin else
what you've always been about, both of ya' plum full

 

[sdcfia]

Yes, turtles show up in all of the "symbols and signs" books that I have. Here's a few from Bill Mahan's book:

View attachment 2220839
But where did Mahan get these from? If he saw them in the wild, then why are there no photos? In fact, why are there never any photos in these treasure sign books? Just sketches. (Adams' Golden Tome is an exception.) I'm not talking about turtle-shaped rocks, heck, I see those all the time.
. . . .

I've got the Mahan material and similar stuff too. You may be correct - Dobie could be the earliest to present these types of sketches. I know the guy who put out the Golden Tome book. Good guy, and very inquisitive, but not much new. Here's some more turtles for your collection from The Handbook of Treasure Symbols by Dr. Arnold Kortejarvi (Curator of Museum of Treasure and Archaeology):

 

[Carl-NC]

I also have Kortejarvi's book, and Kenworthy, Garrett, and Carson. The thing I liked about Golden Tome was actual photographs of symbols, not just the same old copied-over drawings.

CDS, I looked at your photo and see nothing that looks remotely like a turtle. Is there something carved on the rock I can't see?

 

[sdcfia]

I also have Kortejarvi's book, and Kenworthy, Garrett, and Carson. The thing I liked about Golden Tome was actual photographs of symbols, not just the same old copied-over drawings.

CDS, I looked at your photo and see nothing that looks remotely like a turtle. Is there something carved on the rock I can't see?

Garrett and Carson, old school TH magazine era guys. Kenworthy - meh. CDS - country rock videos, western art prints and vacation photos. Turtle rocks? Whatever. The turtle itself as a treasure symbol? Best explanation I've heard is that the magazine writers borrowed it from pirate treasure maps, which IMO may have some logic, as it's a sea creature that buries eggs, and so forth.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

What's this turtles tail pointing too..
.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Thanks CDS yes there are many different gods deities etc. of turtles. However I propose that we take a more practical approach and ask this, does anybody know of any ancient books that possibly may give a clue as to why the Turtles and Treasures may be connected. They say the Spanish were excellent record keepers surly they have something written down that could point us in the right direction this could bring us back to a much earlier time as well even to a different people, I mean has anybody heard of the knights templars using turtles in this way? or even earlier even back to the Egyptian times. I am just trying to open up the search so not everyone is focused in the wrong area, I am not saying the Spanish didnt create the code but you can bet this is from the Religious sect. Wise men of the Time and it would have been documented well.

Still interested sandy1, say there isn't anything in religious books about turtles, is there?

 

[Treasure Auras]

Still interested sandy1, say there isn't anything in religious books about turtles, is there?

Not that I have heard of, but lets not forget when Kenworthy showed different markers in his books including the lightning bolt next to the doorway (which I found one and posted on here) and the Grande deathtrap which nobody had ever heard of (and I found 3 of) now he said he found the drawings of these in some archive, then it becomes obvious that this information was not public knowledge and was well hidden and I am sure is well guarded to this day.

 

[Carl-NC]

Garrett and Carson, old school TH magazine era guys. Kenworthy - meh. CDS - country rock videos, western art prints and vacation photos. Turtle rocks? Whatever. The turtle itself as a treasure symbol? Best explanation I've heard is that the magazine writers borrowed it from pirate treasure maps, which IMO may have some logic, as it's a sea creature that buries eggs, and so forth.

Mary Carson, not Glenn. I liked Glenn's stuff, also Garrett, KVM, and Lagal. Those were the guys to pay attention to. Kenworthy? Meh x 2.
Not sure that turtles (as a treasure symbol) came from pirate maps as it seems that pirate maps are mostly (all?) fake.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Here's an interesting Legend about The Sky People & Turtle Island. It seems the turtles may be one of the oldest creatures on Earth & in the Sea, even older than were the Dinosaurs...
May be Why so many, really all of the Ancient Civilizations revered the turtles & had creation stories & legends, kinda' like worshipped them for their perseverence & Longevity,
and related to them like Immortality, Always in a constant, never ending or failing, Rebirthing Cycle.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Not that I have heard of, but lets not forget when Kenworthy showed different markers in his books including the lightning bolt next to the doorway (which I found one and posted on here) and the Grande deathtrap which nobody had ever heard of (and I found 3 of) now he said he found the drawings of these in some archive, then it becomes obvious that this information was not public knowledge and was well hidden and I am sure is well guarded to this day.

The Lightening Bolt at the doorway, is another one of the things I found after you showed it. I'd seen there was something there, but didn't realize what it was previously.
Then with your critical info, I realized exactly what it was, & it's purpose. This is how many of us who have realized the different critical markers, signs & symbols & various
monuments, after working in the field for several or maybe even many years without being able to connect all of the dots, like you have generously shown & specifically
explained. Now we understand what we've been looking at, but were not fully understanding, & confirmed the unique precedence your interpretation & understanding
of all the different kinds of markers that were made & used, & what they were meant to convey, in relation to the Secretly buried Spanish/Jesuit treasures.

How can there be a Book(s) of information available (for the info that's been kept top secret & guarded for centuries), to a couple of guys
that think they should just be able to learn All about the Secret Info, from a book that actually doesn't even exist, except that an
interested guy from Arizona, figured it all out & revealed it publicly, for all to access very easily, & that all Free Of Charge?

 

[HMK959]

Hello Sandy. The lower shell was meant as the earth and the upper shell as the dome of the sky in mythology. They considered the turtle to be a symbol of high-ranking clergy. Just as they considered the clergy to be the treasure of knowledge and wisdom, they also used the turtle symbol to bury earthly treasures. They placed the burial chamber in a mountain or hill and hid the treasure chamber in the ground. So if you look at the turtle symbol, the lower shell is hidden and the upper shell is visible. I will send you some photos in PM, maybe it will be interesting. I researched this for several years until I came to some conclusions. Of course, I know that the markers may be different in your country.