🥇 BANNER Absolute find of a lifetime: 1786 New York NON VI VIRTUTE VICI

[CrazySlasher]

I'm still in absolute shock. I went out to place that I've been to dozens and have done really well. After digging a bunch of junk targets and a WWII button I decided to try the other side of the area where I've never had any luck. Previously I'd only dug trash targets out of there. But today I noticed a stonewall that I hadn't seen before. After a few minutes I got a strong signal and almost passed it over because of all the trash of my previous times being out there. Out popped this copper. I knew it was different and that I had seen it before but I wasn't sure what it was. I texted a friend the picture and that I thought it might be a bust of George Washington. When I got home I looked it up and almost felt faint. I remembered looking at it before and not thinking much of it because I assumed I would never find one. I will be going back tomorrow and spending the day there. I have no cleaned it and haven't really handled it. The first picture was when it was fresh out of the ground.

 

[Valley Ranger]

Great save - that should certainly qualify for a banner find.

 

[CrazySlasher]

CONGRATULATIONS. This is a once in a lifetime, fantastic find! It's your coin, and your find. But as IP says, I would wait on the whole, "grading" thing. We have this debate every time someone finds a coin like this. Why waste money?? Most times, the sender is unhappy with the "conservation" efforts and grade they receive, when the coin returns. I too, have learned a hard lesson about auctions. I had 2 buyers of $5,000 apiece for my 25-83A. Went to auction, sold for $3,750, but after fees, netted $3,500. If you have people willing to buy it privately, WITHOUT grading, pick the best price. There are people on here that can help. Don and IP have great contacts. The Colonial Coin Collectors Club, which I am a member of, has THE biggest coin collectors in the world. Most prefer to make an offer on a coin that hasn't been graded. Think about it, before you do something you could regret. Family or not. When you take it to auction, don't think the buyer doesn't take the 15% fee he has to pay into consideration with their bid. Immediately everyone wants to have it sent out to a grading service. In my opinion, these services are a SCAM! Preying on people who know very little about what they have. It's your coin......Good Luck. Hogge

Something to think about. Why are the senders unhappy with the conservation?

 

[Iron Patch]

Something to think about. Why are the senders unhappy with the conservation?

Never let someone touch your coin without knowing exactly what they plan to do. I personally would clean it the exact same way as any other coin I dig because eye appeal is what counts right now.... because you can't change the fact it's dug. And that's not just talk because I've already been there and done that with a copper I found that booked the same in lower grades. At this point it's just as much about damage control as it is conservation, and the bottom line is as I said eye appeal, because that is what will get you the most $$$$. Stripping all the green is hard to say from those pics whether that would be a positive or negative.. many times it's a negative, and when someone cleans a coin that is generally the route they go. That's why you take your time, and maybe consider doing it yourself. And it's always better to have the finished product before you let the cat out of the bag, but a little late now ... although the buyers haven't seen it yet, so just make sure it's the best it can be before you present it.

 

[CrazySlasher]

Never let someone touch your coin without knowing exactly what they plan to do. I personally would clean it the exact same way as any other coin I dig because eye appeal is what counts right now.... because you can't change the fact it's dug. And that's not just talk because I've already been there and done that with a copper I found that booked the same in lower grades. At this point it's just as much about damage control as it is conservation, and the bottom line is as I said eye appeal, because that is what will get you the most $$$$. Stripping all the green is hard to say from those pics whether that would be a positive or negative.. many times it's a negative, and when someone cleans a coin that is generally the route they go. That's why you take your time, and maybe consider doing it yourself. And it's always better to have the finished product before you let the cat out of the bag, but a little late now ... although the buyers haven't seen it yet, so just make sure it's the best it can be before you present it.

I'm not sure if I want to sell it yet. I'm not going to attempt to clean the coin myself because I'm not very good at and don't have enough experience cleaning coppers. Most just go into the copper box as there's no real point in cleaning them.

 

[Aussie]

I can't seem to see any bad blistering or oxidization on that coin, very exciting and a fantastic find! Is going to clean up well I'm sure.
Congrats.

 

[hogge]

Something to think about. Why are the senders unhappy with the conservation?

Stripping the "active" PVC from the coin,(as the "conservatory" companies do), can expose pitting, lose detail, and actually damage the surface of the coin more than you think. Then they'll coat it with god knows what. They can do more damage than good, but you won't know that till you pay them, and get the coin back. By then it's too late-- for you! Eye appeal is everything right now.(Thanks IP) No matter what these companies tell you, you're gambling with potential DISASTER! Take the advice from people on here who KNOW! I've used grading companies before. PCGS, and ANACS. I would NEVER....EVER even consider using a third party conservatory grader. It's a ground found copper! You cannot change that. I like when they use the word "qualifier". It's actually a "disqualifier", which is a problem with the coin. Funny how they use the word qualifier instead, like it's some attribute that's going to help value. Conservation?......A big fancy word used by grading companies to drum up business. Don't "buy" into it. And if you do......please do us a favor and post before and after pics, so we can remember what the coin actually looked like!

 

[Iron Patch]

I'm not sure if I want to sell it yet. I'm not going to attempt to clean the coin myself because I'm not very good at and don't have enough experience cleaning coppers. Most just go into the copper box as there's no real point in cleaning them.

Just don't assume where you send it the person has experience cleaning dug coins because that is not always the case, probably usually not the case. A well known company completely destroyed a very nice 1877 Indian head a few years ago. The coin should have never been sent in, but the company should have been smart enough to leave it alone... but they didn't. There was no corrosion, just a nice green patina - a real slick good looking coin, and it was returned brown and the surface eaten from whatever type of acid they used. This is just a heads up that you don't automatically trust someone when you're talking about a coin like that. I'm sure there is plenty of good guys, and quite honestly the guys who restore relics would probably do just as good of job or better because they would likely understand how to do as little as possible with the best result. Unfortunately I can't really give you the right answer, because it's tough to say with everything being a case by case basis, but you really have to make sure because there's no going back.

 

[Iron Patch]

Hmmmm have been spending a little time on this and something caught my attention. Check out the 6 in relation to the 8. They do not appear to match to me. My Breen says there's a die struck counterfeit that exists in the Yeoman guide books, be he has not seen it.... So I wonder if that is what this might be. It's still a great find regardless, but I'm not really sure what to think.

I also wondered about the arm position but figured that could just be from the ground condition... but to me the 6 and 8 do not seem to match.

 

[CASPER-2]

 

[hogge]

WOW! Nice catch IP!! ALSO If you look closely.....the "7" is straight in the authentic coin, and tipped down in the finders coin also. YER Right.....It doesn't match at all!

 

[Alfred Berry]

Great Find... Sounds like you having a ball. Yesterday while searching Indian Rocks beach here in Florida, I found a 4" 50 Caliber Machine Gun bullet casing. I checked the ID on the firing pen end, and found it was manufactured in Conn. in 1942!

 

[Jyverb64]

You gotta love this hobby because you never know whats going to come out of the ground, awesome find!

 

[Fattony315]

That is one awesome coin, my heart would be racing once I cleaned that off and saw what it was.

 

[Iron Patch]

WOW! Nice catch IP!! ALSO If you look closely.....the "7" is straight in the authentic coin, and tipped down in the finders coin also. YER Right.....It doesn't match at all!

There is other little things that do look different but could be the quality of the pic... but the 6 and 8 seem too different to me to not to be different. Also look at the space between the date and the line.


As I said even ctft would not be bad at all, but a different die variety would be great news. Hopefully the obverse is a match, and then if I'm right about the 6 and 8 thing, the reverse could be new. Is interesting and curious to see how it plays out.

 

[hogge]

There is other little things that do look different but could be the quality of the pic... but the 6 and 8 seem too different to me to not to be different. Also look at the space between the date and the line.


As I said even ctft would not be bad at all, but a different die variety would be great news. Hopefully the obverse is a match, and then if I'm right about the 6 and 8 thing, the reverse could be new. Is interesting and curious to see how it plays out.

The reverse dating and spacing looks like that of the Large Head variety. Yet the poster has the small head variety. Could it be a combo of the Small Head obverse and the Large Head reverse?? Making this a "New" die variety. Haven't looked too close but I'm going to have to check his out as regards to both combinations. Even with this, the positioning of the arm points to an "E". Whereas both combinations I see point to an "N". Would like to see a pic of one of the CFT.'s

 

[Iron Patch]

The reverse dating and spacing looks like that of the Large Head variety. Yet the poster has the small head variety. Could it be a combo of the Small Head obverse and the Large Head reverse?? Making this a "New" die variety. Haven't looked too close but I'm going to have to check his out as regards to both combinations. Even with this, the positioning of the arm points to an "E". Whereas both combinations I see point to an "N". Would like to see a pic of one of the CFT.'s

I would think unlikely but coins do get connected by number and letter punches.

My curiosity got the best me and I just wrote someone, a person who no doubt owns a nice one of these... so should be interesting if he gets back.

 

[Sovereignelite]

Very interesting thread would love to find one of those OLD coppers someday! Congrats!

 

[hogge]

Interesting to note that the cross reference in Breens on the small head was listed as a "Forgery" by the ANS in 2007.

 

[CrazySlasher]

Are there any pics of the CFT?

 

[CrazySlasher]

Interesting to note that the cross reference in Breens on the small head was listed as a "Forgery" by the ANS in 2007.

I feel stupid asking, but what does that mean? Also, you are correct that arm is pointing in a different location. You guys have made me extremely nervous.