almost got arrested

[jersey junkie]

Went to Sandy Hook NJ today to sneak in an hour of detecting and almost got arrested. "No metal detecting on Federal property". What a kill joy.

 

[DigEmAll]

Quote from: beetle662 on February 07, 2006, 02:03:07 am
Some of you folks here need to realize that even though you (WE) pay taxes, this does not grant you any God Given right to do whatever the heck you want, when you want, or where you want! Rules are in place for a reason. Don't like the rule... get it changed! If you can't get it changed, then live with it and move on! The days of being a rebellious teen are over.

Yup.. the Feds could very easily have taken all of your detecting stuff, car, money, etc. Consider yourself lucky this time.

And yes... I'm a Law Enforcement Officer. Play by the rules and no one gets hurt! Its really that easy folks!


Amen, there has to be checks and balances. Lawlessness will ruin us all... in the long run!!!! Just take a look at our US Borders now......it's a revolving door for criminals!!!


THERE'S A DOOR?!?!

 

[beetle662]

[
Amen, there has to be checks and balances. Lawlessness will ruin us all...

So will over zealous law enforcers, who think they are the law.

Valid argument... but one that proves both points. One bad apple does not make the bunch rotten... but can certainly make it seem that way!

I've read too many times about people going places to swing and feel that becaues it is public property it is their's to do with whatever they want. Yes, government CAN BE and IS overbearing on a lot of issues... but the action of one is the reason why a law was created. I simply enforce that law. This is a HUGE problem with society as a whole today. Commit a crime, run from the police, get yourself wounded or even killed, and his/her family or loved ones wonder why the police did what they did 20 years ago there would have been no debate. You break the law, you face the consequences... you don't make excuses and then try to place the blame on the police. Yes... we err. Everyone does. Some errors are bigger than others. I am more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt to someone and give them ample opprotunity to state their case before I do what I have to do. But... my job is to enforce the laws... the laws that are/were created by the people in my community... the laws that if they were a problem, someone would have tried to do something about long before it was about to be enforced on them!

Know the law... obey the law..... respect the badge... life is good!

On my end of the spectrum... know the law... enforce the law... respect the community and its citizens.... life is good!

 

[jersey junkie]

HEY digemall you said "And yes... I'm a Law Enforcement Officer. Play by the rules and no one gets hurt! Its really that easy folks!

" Funny that you posted those words the day after Martin Luther King Jr.'s wife was burried. I wonder if they just "Played by the rules" where we would be today.

And no I am not an African American. I'm a white guy from New Jersey with two family members that are cops. The problem with this country is that Everyone just feels they should just play by the rules. This is a country where those rules can be challenged and the first way to challenge them is through the courts. That unfortunatly requires an arrest first in most cases to force the issue.

By the way there are NO signs posted that restrict MDing on any beach in Sandy Hook.

I will now climb off my soap box ....thank you

 

[The Beep Goes On]

Know the law... obey the law..... respect the badge... life is good!

On my end of the spectrum... know the law... enforce the law... respect the community and its citizens.... life is good!

Beetle662, I think you left something out...

On my end of the spectrum... know the law... obey the law...enforce the law... respect the community and its citizens.... life is good!

HH!
TBGO

 

[Cladius]

Ignorance is no excuse. Do your research. Cladius.

 

[Pangus]

I'm confused as what makes people think Federal property is for everyone's use? Some is open as long as you follow certain rules. It's not YOUR property, so therefore you must follow the owner's rules if you want to go onto the property. No different than it being a total strangers yard. You don't just get to go dig a big ol' hole in their yard because it suits you. It is not your property to deface.

Maybe, and follow me here, maybe the Federal government does not want people digging holes in the property. I know everyone here ALWAYS fills their holes back in and says they would not dare dig a big hole. But if metal detecting, (or treasure hunting/relic finding/archaelogical digging) whatever you want to call it was not prohibited, what would stop someone from literally strip-mining a beach for valuables. We all know there are some important, and valuable things out there, so SOMEONE, not naming names, would take it WAAAAAY to far and do just that. Maybe they don't want history sold to the highest bidder. The rule is set to help keep heritage intact, to be dug up, whenever the OWNER of the property wishes to do so. The Federal government does not dig up relics for profit, they do it for every citizen that may wish to enjoy it, and they usually are maintained and stored/displayed so people can see them. Could you imagine if the floodgates to Gettysburg, Antietam, or Bull Run were opened for digging? It would look like a field full of gopher holes.


Let me boil this down for you: If you found gold on your property and the federal government came in with his federal shovel and told you he felt federally entitled to some of the gold on your property, you'd be mad, right? So how is that different than you going on his property looking for valuables without his consent. There is no difference. Just dig where you have the right, or permission, to dig.

And as for "playing by the rules"...that argument made no sense in the context of this situation. Or are you arguing that we should fight for the right to dig anywhere we please, because if we didn't, we'd just be mindless drones. If that's the argument, well, I hope you aren't a property owner or you'll wish people would stop trespassing and just "play by the rules"....

 

[beetle662]

HEY digemall? you said? "And yes... I'm a Law Enforcement Officer. Play by the rules and no one gets hurt! Its really that easy folks!

"? Funny that you posted those words the day after Martin Luther King Jr.'s wife was burried.? I wonder if they just "Played by the rules" where we would be today.?

And no I am not an African American.? I'm a white guy from New Jersey with two family members that are cops.? The problem with this country is that Everyone just feels they should just play by the rules.? This is a country where those rules can be challenged and the first way to challenge them is through the courts.? That unfortunatly requires an arrest first in most cases to force the issue.?

By the way there are NO signs posted that restrict MDing on any beach in Sandy Hook.

I will now climb off my soap box ....thank you

Jersey Junkie...

You missed the part of my quote where I stated that if you don't like the rules.... GET THEM CHANGED!!! I think society as a whole did a "decent" job getting the rules changed of that day.

I do think, though, that it would be in the best interest of all if they did indeed post signs at Sandy Hook stating there is no metal detecting. That can cloud the issue for sure... but then the Feds would no doubt throw the "ignorance is no excuse" at you. True... but let's not get stupid about things.

And be sure to tell your two family members "Thanks" for their service!

 

[beetle662]

Know the law... obey the law..... respect the badge... life is good!

On my end of the spectrum... know the law... enforce the law... respect the community and its citizens.... life is good!

Beetle662, I think you left something out...

On my end of the spectrum... know the law... obey the law...enforce the law... respect the community and its citizens.... life is good!

HH!


TBGO

Beep Goes On....

I guess I figured that was a given... but of course, you got me! Yup... EVERYONE must obey the law.

 

[MDnoob]

"? Funny that you posted those words the day after Martin Luther King Jr.'s wife was burried.? I wonder if they just "Played by the rules" where we would be today.?

I think that comparing the struggle of Martin Luther King to metal detecting is kind of a reach...

 

[The Beep Goes On]

Beetle662 -> I couldn't resist...I knew what you meant.

 

[Monty]

The irony of the situationis that if you did find gold on your property the fedral goverment WOULD come in and take a hunk of it! The state would get their share, the county would raise your property taxes, you would probably be assessed some kind of corporate tax on top of that, then you'd have to pay the smelter to refine it, and they'd pay taxes on their profit,that you would wind up paying in refining costs, on and on and on. If you recovered 10% of your total findings you would be doing good in the end..........even if you have to hire an attorney to keep you out of jail for not paying someone something! Buy yourself a copy of the Fair Tax Book and open your eyes. Monty

 

[jersey junkie]

MONTY....The Fair Tax Book is one of the best. I've read it and given it away 25 or so times.

The stretch to Martin Luther King Jr. was to show a bit of the absurdity of the No MDing law.

 

[lou423]

let's mention Alabama.
If you find anything over 50 years old on your own private property, you can not take it with you.
It belongs to the state.
Thankfully that absurd laws is being challenged.

 

[johny mc.]

jj- I'm glad you posted this because a customer of mine took me saltwater flyfishing right there where you were and I almost pulled my detector out of the car...cept' the walk was too long back and forth..and I mean long in the sand with wading boots.....anyway I thought like you did that that area would be hot for relics with Washington getting chased out of Manhattan through there......
And you want to know what- not letting people hunt there is a crock......imagine our founding fathers being told that we can't hunt for relics...that are rotting in the ground as we speak.......we all need to take a stand against this beauracratic horse pucky....aloha johny mc....

 

[lasttoknow (Tim)]

It really is ashame that precious artifacs are just rotting away on land that could be detected. Why not allow limited detecting or even with a permit by the parks department. The state could make some extra cash and you might find a priceless artifac?? ok priceless to the finder that is....lol HH to you all and please respect the laws and wishes of landowners who don't want you on their property. It obsurd but will PROTECT OUR HOBBY....

 

[midus1]

Go to any public park that you regulary hunt and count the holes you have to cover up from some one else, then ask why we can't hunt on most state and federal properties.

HH

 

[BOB VALDEZ]

Hello Bob,
Unfortunately MD's along with anything else relating to the activity, ie: vehicle's and other belongings, can be, will be, and have been confiscated by the Federal Gov't.

Wether property is posted or not it is the responsibility of each of us to know where we are.
As others have posted, seek permission. If none given, it's best to just move on to another place. The penalty isn't worth it to me as I MD just for the fun of it. Handcuffs, jail, or losing my stuff doesn't sound like fun.

Anyway, how's the Md'ing in Belgium?

Sorry, I just had to laugh with : "Why dont they go and tap someones phone or something. " I haven't been long in MD, only since August 2005 and I am always hunting on beaches. Can't have much trouble there, can I ?

I live in a medieval town, there must be "relics" everywhere. But in order to know if MD is permitted here or there, you have to take information. And asking for information from a civil servant, you could as well ask it to a monkey. The Peter Principle + nobody knows ANYTHING, the just got that job by having the correct party card : liberal, socialist, catholic.... Everything is politics. Here but also over there, I guess. Imagine "someone" says it is OK. Of course you don't have to believe him, you want a second, third, etc opinion. O boy, why bother ? DON'T MD HERE ! It is ONE BIG ARCHELOGICAL site.

The fields ? We had so many wars, there can & must be battlefield EVERYWHERE. The Romans came and stole everything away they could. So did the Spaniards, the Dutch, the French, the Austrians, the Germans, etc etc. Well, we must have hundreds of "important battlegrounds" where one cannot detect. Take Waterloo, were Napoleon was defeated. Take YPRES that was completely destroyed in world war 1.

It isn't all that simple. Over there but also : here.

Therefor : I prefer the beach !

BOB VALDEZ, BELGIUM

 

[JakePhelps]

Exactly monty, the government WOULD try and take some of it if you found it on your property, and the sad part of it is some people described as "law abbiding citizens" would actually hand over part of it to the government

 

[Willy]

It seems that governments are really fond of passing laws/ ordinances and then foisting the onus of finding out about them on the citizens. It seems that a person in posession of private property has to jump through hoops and live in a virtual walled citadel in order to be free of potential litigation (or actual charges) arising out of someone else's stupidity or lack of awareness. The Government, on the other hand, seems to be exempt (can you say goose & gander?). Also, just asking permission may not even help. A number of years ago I was was travelling up the California coast and stopped off at a public park to rest and do a bit of detecting. Being law abiding, I went and asked a park employee (there were 2 at the time) if I could detect. "No problem!". About 30 min. later 2 cops walk up to me on the beach and inform me that I'm breaking the law. Luckily, the employees were still around and, after I informed the cops that I'd asked permission of a park worker, we walked over and my story was corroberated. If they had left, leaving nobody to back me up, I could have been in a world of trouble. I was just let off with a warning not to detect in parks & such. Close one and just goes to show that even being responsible and law abiding can land a person in the manure pile. ...Willy.

 

[PADirtfisher]

I lived near Sandy Hook a few years back. I stopped in the Ranger's station to get permission to hunt BEFORE I even took out my detector. I was told (very nicely, I might add) that any metal detecting in National Parks is a BIG no-no. You can be arrested, have all of your equipment confiscated (including the car that you drove there), have your house searched, and if they find more relics that they think might have come from the Park, REALLY hit you with fines and jail time. The Ranger explained it pretty succinctly - some National Parks have Native American sites and relics, and under Federal law these are still the property of the tribes in question. They take theft from Native tribes VERY seriously, not to mention theft of Federal property in general. It was further explained to me that under the law, relics are relics no matter if they were left by prehistoric man or fell off your aunt's finger the week before. In other words, DON'T wear anything to a National Park that you can't afford to lose.

The same applies to NJ State Parks - the NJ State Police are quite aware of the law, and will happily arrest and fine you into an early grave if they catch you.

Of course, at Sandy Hook (and at all the Jersey beaches, actually) the possibility of digging up live munitions is VERY real. Been there, done that! I've dug up a ton of bullets on beaches just south of the Hook, several still live. Every year at least one person finds an actual bomb buried in the sand that the guys at Fort Monmouth have to blow up on site.

Pennsylvania is not quite so draconian in regards to State Parks and MDing. You have to apply for a permit from the State Parks Commission (if I remember right, it costs around $25), then you have to get permission from the head Park Ranger at the Park that you want to detect, on the day you are detecting. Usually they are OK with it, they'll just tell you to keep away from any historic sites that might be dug up by the pros in the future. They really just want to make sure you know to fill your holes and throw away the trash you dig up.

Frank B