Ancient coin ? (Updated! more pics)

[history hunter]

I found this coin while metal detecting when I was a kid. I thought it was fake until I brought it to a coin show and a dealer said it was not necessarily fake. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it?

 

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[IronSpike]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Interesting coin. Can't tell whether it's real or a copy, however it's a chartaginian coinage. This link has a pic with closest example I could find. Funny how that one also was turned into a pendant and found while metal detecting.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...hl=en&rlz=1G1ACGW_ENUS342&sa=N&start=342&um=1

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Dont take this the wrong way but it looks modern. I see no corrosion and it looks like it was plated. Its just my opinion.

Thanks for the interesting link Ironspike. I didnt read it all but stopped at the part where the Carthaginians discovered America. ...hmmm.

It may be one and the same or this may have solved a 70's mystery.. Good research Ironspike, again.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Thanks IS. Interesting thread.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Looks too much like a copy to not be. Hope I'm wrong for the second time in my life.

 

[history hunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

The coin feels some what heavy and perhaps someone tried to put some sort of silver platting on the coin when turned into a medallion. The coin dealer seemed to think it was real. If it is real, then it's in great condition. Also the second pics of the coin were taken with a flash, the first pics shows more of some type of corrosion on the coin.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

I went back and re-read Ironspikes link in its entirety. I know little about ancients, but lets look at the facts. This token has been found in 7 states.

Arkansas
Alabama
Kansas
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Nebraska
Georgia


The coin has not been positively identified. It seems to have been found only in America. "Although the obverse, considered alone, would indicate that it was a coin of Syracuse, Sicily, the reverse identified it as Carthaginian. The horse head is the symbol of Carthage; the date palm was used to indicate the word "Phoenicia." quote. They think it was struck in ancient Carthage before 146 B.C. The conclusion of the author is that the Carthaginians must have discovered America LOL. Its amazing to me that this otherwise educated person has come up with this theory. http://www.gloriafarley.com/chap11.htm

Although its possible to find ancient coins dropped by collectors, my guess is a fantasy coin. Although there may be a Gypsy connection, I feel this was most likely a free giveaway in a popular 50's-60s era product. Readers Digest had a similar "ancient coin" giveaway. Until an authentic one can be found overseas, I would have to assume this was produced here in the USA. This may take some time but try and be patient and hopefully we will find the correct ID to this mystery.

I would like to ask you where you found it so I can add it to the list. Or are you one of those already mentioned? Its an interesting find for sure.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

We may be one step closer to solving this mystery. I believe I have found the authentic bronze coin that this has attempted to replicate. These coins are described as Siculo-Punic, that is to say, as coins struck in Sicily for the payment of the Carthaginian armies.

Head of Persephone surrounded by dolphins. עם מחנת or מ Horse’s head and palm- tree (Fig. 392).

http://www.snible.org/coins/hn/zeugitana.html

 

[trikikiwi]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Excellent researching on this item. I do enjoy following threads such as this, for my enlightenment.
I suspect this quote from the link in that post BigCy
"The following are the principal varieties (see Holm, Gesch. Sic., iii, pp. 643 ff.):— "
could lead to more information.
Mike

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Ancient coin ?

IMO, the lettering around the obverse head is not in Punic as would it be on an original coin. The Phoenician alphabet looks like this: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet)
Don........

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

IMO, the lettering around the obverse head is not in Punic as would it be on an original coin. The Phoenician alphabet looks like this: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet)
Don........

What about the reverse? The writing on the obverse is Greek. (quotes in blue)

The name of Syracuse above her head on this coin was misspelled "SYRAKOSIAN," believed to be the normal Iberian Greek form of the genitive case, meaning "Of the Syracusans."

Otherwise, the Punic in- scription (reverse) is the only indication that these series of coins are not purely Greek, and there is every reason to think that they were struck in Sicily and not in Africa, and that Greek artists were employed to engrave the coin-dies.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Ancient coin ?

The coin feels some what heavy and perhaps someone tried to put some sort of silver platting on the coin when turned into a medallion. The coin dealer seemed to think it was real. If it is real, then it's in great condition. Also the second pics of the coin were taken with a flash, the first pics shows more of some type of corrosion on the coin.

I am not an expert history hunter. I am just using common sense. The coin shows minimal signs of corrosion, no patina and the plating or guilding is obvious where it is wearing off. The plating also doesnt look like gold or silver. Although it is possible to find ancients in the USA, it is unlikely to find so many in so many different states. Its also possible to be a zipper pull. Just my opinion.

My advice would be to contact the author of Ironspikes link and tell them you have another. I think the lack of corrosion will help solve this mystery. If not, you could always offer to sell it to them.

It would also be nice to know when (what year)and where you found it.

 

[Dano Sverige]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Happy to see the American educational brainwashing is still working strong lol.
What's so hard to believe that Columbus wasn't the first "outsider" to find North America? The Vikings did it 300 years before Columbus,and the Phoenicians certainly had the ships and knowledge to make it easily a thousand years or so before the vikings!
2 or 3 professor's,some institution in Boston,and a coin expert/author all agree these coins are ancient...but maybe they don't have the benefit of your expertise?

Anyhow,the last statement recommending contacting the author IS a very good plan,one i'd recommend doing.It could be you have a two thousand year old coin and a genuine piece of pre-american history.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Copy

 

[savant365]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Happy to see the American educational brainwashing is still working strong lol.
What's so hard to believe that Columbus wasn't the first "outsider" to find North America? The Vikings did it 300 years before Columbus,and the Phoenicians certainly had the ships and knowledge to make it easily a thousand years or so before the vikings!
2 or 3 professor's,some institution in Boston,and a coin expert/author all agree these coins are ancient...but maybe they don't have the benefit of your expertise?

Anyhow,the last statement recommending contacting the author IS a very good plan,one i'd recommend doing.It could be you have a two thousand year old coin and a genuine piece of pre-american history.

It's hard for most people to question what they have been taught as "FACTS" since we were 4 or 5 years old but just 500 years ago it was a "FACT" that the world was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth (as far as the educational community was concerned). Columbus was at least the first to offer "proof" of the new world but it is definately possible that someone from Europe was here before him. Until someone comes up with solid, unrefutable proof of it though the history books will remain the same.

HH Charlie

 

[IronSpike]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Even if the coins were real that doesn't prove anything The gypsy tale is interesting and that may be a good clue if the coins are from abroad and not 'just' local fantasy coins. Most of the coins were found near a river. History hunter was your coin found near a river?

The found coins almost in too good round condition compared to the example BCH posted. I'm thinking replica, however eitherway it's an interesting and unique find

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Dano:
You appear to enjoy history.
Have you read Gavin Menzies "1421--The Year China Discovered America"?
If not, I believe you would enjoy the reading.
Don.....

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Dont take this the wrong way but it looks modern. I see no corrosion and it looks like it was plated. Its just my opinion.

Thanks for the interesting link Ironspike. I didnt read it all but stopped at the part where the Carthaginians discovered America. ...hmmm.

It may be one and the same or this may have solved a 70's mystery.. Good research Ironspike, again.

Why does it have to have corrosion on it not all ancient coins come out the ground corroded

SS.

So that's a dug copper, brass or bronze coin?

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Dont take this the wrong way but it looks modern. I see no corrosion and it looks like it was plated. Its just my opinion.

Thanks for the interesting link Ironspike. I didnt read it all but stopped at the part where the Carthaginians discovered America. ...hmmm.

It may be one and the same or this may have solved a 70's mystery.. Good research Ironspike, again.

Why does it have to have corrosion on it not all ancient coins come out the ground corroded

SS.

So that's a dug copper, brass or bronze coin?

Correct IP.

SS.

Well the person (you?) who dug it made a bad choice detecting that day and not playing the lottery.

Do you know the metal and the context of the find?

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Ancient coin ?

Dont take this the wrong way but it looks modern. I see no corrosion and it looks like it was plated. Its just my opinion.

Thanks for the interesting link Ironspike. I didnt read it all but stopped at the part where the Carthaginians discovered America. ...hmmm.

It may be one and the same or this may have solved a 70's mystery.. Good research Ironspike, again.

Why does it have to have corrosion on it not all ancient coins come out the ground corroded

SS.

So that's a dug copper, brass or bronze coin?

Correct IP.

SS.

Well the person (you?) who dug it made a bad choice detecting that day and not playing the lottery.

Do you know the metal and the context of the find?

I never said I dug the coin IP, what are you trying to imply, I only posted the coin to show it doesn't have to have corrosion on it, when it has come out the ground, I have seen many Roman bronze coins come out as good as the day they were lost, it all depends on soil conditions. I don't know why you want a full metalegy test on a picture of a coin I posted.

SS.

I didn't say you dug it .. see the question mark??

If you're trying to make a point it only makes sense to clarify the metal. Don't ya think!