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[unitas]

My friends and I got back to the trade silver site today. It didn't dissappoint. The first photo is another gun part ,probably from the same gun as before. This one's a beauty,it appears to have the initials "GB" under the crown.







The next photos are of a brass bell dug by my friend and his son.It has been smashed at some time but I can't imagine by what. It is very thick.It is a very neat find and brought us a lot of excitement when it appeared in the shovel.





Also found was this nice,tiny trade brooch.





I'm tired now and am going to bed. Thanks for looking., Unitas

 

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[Derek752]

Your making some AMAZING finds Unitas ... Love the escutcheon plate and the trade broach

Im my oppinion that crotal bell was being worked by an indian...who had ideas for using it in some other capacity .. I've dug plenty of reshaped musketballs and brass items made into GOD - knows - what. Seems he had ideas for a better mouse trap , whatta ya think ?

Derek

 

[unitas]

We've already started researching the site and plan
to do more. Thanks again,it is an exciting group
of finds,maybe a once in a lifetime site. We plan to
take our time with it., Unitas

 

[Rege-PA]

Amazing finds...I agree with Derek on the bell, looks to have been heated and pounded by the amount of distortion. Are you on a beach, noticed the snails.?

 

[unitas]

Awesome Muddy, I know how happy you must have been to find that one,I know we were thrilled to find ours. We are looking forward to getting back to our spot next year to see what else we can discover. Harry

 

[Ia.FurTrade]

Unitas, I too, have one of these "GR" escutcheons...Nice find!
Dale

 

[Arid-Zone-A-seeker]

Very nice, The GR is George Rex. from a military gun, every thing belonged to the king "Gerorge" that was issued and marked as such. My books are in storage so can not give a date.
Thanks for your time
Arid

 

[Iron Patch]

That thing is beautiful and even though there's a 2nd posted in the thread it certainly isn't a common find. I've hunted some great early sites and found a lot of early military, but the 3 or 4 British escutcheon plates I've dug were plain.

 

[Lucas]

This escutcheon (thumb piece) and the larger side plate go with the butt plate, and are from a middle period Board of Ordinance gun (pre 1812 type). The smaller side plate piece is from a "Carolina gun" that is pre Rev. War. All significant finds.

 

[TruthBastion]

Your gun pieces are all part of what collectors either refer to as a "cartouche" gun or as a "standing bird buttplate" gun. These are believed to be treaty/gift guns from the British. They are not British military issue, but were made quite specifically for the Indian trade. Most intact surviving pieces appear to date to around the time of the American Revolution, though some might date to the tail end of the French and Indian war/Pontiac's Rebellion. They show up in trade records in Detroit during the American Revolution as "GR" guns, no doubt in reference to the engraving on the thumbpieces. Nearly all of these I have seen come from the Great Lakes region. If any of you diggers have recovered them farther afield, particularly in the South or Southeast, I would love know about it. Excellent finds!

 

[Lucas]

Scholars call them Board of Ordinance guns... because at the time they were made and gifted to Natives, the BoO was responsible for having them made by various makers. At one point, the Board of Trade was responsible, but not during the time these guns were made.

Most date from the 1812 era, but they have the silver Indian with bow escutcheon. Hanson in the Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly article on the chronology of BoO guns (41:3, p. 6) says your escutcheon is a type II-III. There are only two known complete guns of these types. Like I said, significant finds. Perhaps more significant, your sideplate is type IV-V, and the decoration of the butt plate is not listed. If I was to take a guess, I would say your parts are about 1780, the time of transition between the III and IV.

 

[TruthBastion]

I personally think there has been a tendency among professional archaeologists to class and type gun parts a little too much some times. T.M. Hamilton and many of the pioneers often were dividing up parts and assigning names to "types" without any knowledge, or limited knowledge of surviving, intact, non-archaeological examples. In some cases they created false chronologies even, misinterpreting variations within a type or style of trade gun as a whole different class or even age of gun. There are actually a fair number of these "GR" guns around in antique arms collector's hands. They are pretty decently made overall, far better quality than guns the NW varieties. All I am aware of, either as a complete dug assemblages from a single gun, or intact non-archaeological examples, have a standing bird engraved on the buttplate, thus their other common name. I purchased a set of the hardware a while back from a digger in Illinois. I will try and pull it out and shoot a good picture of the bird on the buttplate. I have personally handled a half dozen and know of a couple more complete antique, non-dug guns, so there are far more than the two out there cited by the MOTFT Quarterly article, as there must be a lot more out there that I don't know of as well. I have a friend in Ohio who owns a nice example, perhaps I can get him to shoot some pictures of it to post here if anyone is interested. Again, nice finds Unitas!

 

[Lucas]

Excellent info! I am on the edge of my seat waiting for those pics!

Interesting that this gun's butt plate has scroll engraving, not a bird. I wonder if the variation is due to different makers, and not just a chronological thing.

 

[TruthBastion]

Maybe I missed something, but I was not aware that there was a buttplate dug directly with the thumbpiece and sideplate. I only saw pictures of those parts, a shirt buckle and a bell. Was this a complete gun, or merely mixed parts off of the site? If there was a buttplate, was there a lock and barrel as well? Unitas?

 

[Lucas]

This apparently goes with the rest.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,199983.0.html

 

[unitas]

Your making some AMAZING finds Unitas ... Love the escutcheon plate and the trade broach

Im my oppinion that crotal bell was being worked by an indian...who had ideas for using it in some other capacity .. I've dug plenty of reshaped musketballs and brass items made into GOD - knows - what. Seems he had ideas for a better mouse trap , whatta ya think ?

Derek

Wow,thanks! The bell is very interesting. It is so heavy, it must have been difficult to melt like that.I have no idea what they had in mind. We are finding items that have been altered but the bell is by far the most unusual.

 

[unitas]

Maybe I missed something, but I was not aware that there was a buttplate dug directly with the thumbpiece and sideplate. I only saw pictures of those parts, a shirt buckle and a bell. Was this a complete gun, or merely mixed parts off of the site? If there was a buttplate, was there a lock and barrel as well? Unitas?

Wow, I haven't been paying attention to this section of T-net. There is some confusion here. The buttplate is from a completely different site in northern Ohio.All the other gun parts and all the silver trade goods are from one site. There appears to be several guns coming out of this site. I've shown ALL the parts we've recovered. We will be hitting this site again,very soon and hopefully very hard. I look forward to sharing those finds as well. Thanks everyone for all the great detailed info.--Unitas

 

[Lucas]

Butt plate = oops, my mistake! :P

You are finding some cool stuff... keep posting!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Heres a very good link on guns and trade goods.With lots of pics .... Save it and 1 day take a few hours and read it..Its very good!Great finds http://anthropology.tamu.edu/papers/Borgens-MA2004.pdf

 

[Lucas]

At first I thought it was one I had seen on La Salle. But no, this is new to me!!!!! Lots of good stuff.

Here's another

http://www.sha.org/research_resources/documents/Legacy of the Machault_English.pdf

and

http://www.nps.gov/voya/historycult...cts, Voyageurs National Park and Environs.pdf

and a bunch more listed on my web site

http://sites.google.com/site/historicalfurtradewi/Home/online-research-materials