Bar Shot or Dumbbell?

[Maryland Dan]

I have no idea on this one. I have heard both. I am running in a electrolysis tank right now. It was found at a site with items from the mid 1700s up to 1950s until they let the woods grow where a home site existed. It is within view of water but no military action from what I understand. I have found tons of buttons, a KGIII, some smooth coppers (thin), and a couple large cents. It was farm land and used for hunting. I have also found a few musket balls and a trigger guard with a flower on it. Would love some ways to figure it out.

 

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[Kray Gelder]

Could be bar shot. One end rotted off, or broke off on impact. WAG.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Actual Artillery Bar-Shot was not a 1-piece solid cast iron object. Bar-Shot was a square-bodied bar made of wrought-iron with a solid cast-iron ball (or half-ball) attached onto each end of the bar. The photo below shows a real one, recovered from the shipwreck of the USS Philadelphia.

I can't tell from examining your photos whether the object you found is 1-piece cast iron or not. But the bar looks round-bodied, not square-bodied. When you've finished cleaning it by electrolysis, please let us know what its form and its "construction" are.

 

[Maryland Dan]

Actual Artillery Bar-Shot was not a 1-piece solid cast iron object. Bar-Shot was a square-bodied bar made of wrought-iron with a solid cast-iron ball (or half-ball) attached onto each end of the bar. The photo below shows a real one, recovered from the shipwreck of the USS Philadelphia.

I can't tell from examining your photos whether the object you found is 1-piece cast iron or not. But the bar looks round-bodied, not square-bodied. When you've finished cleaning it by electrolysis, please let us know what its form and its "construction" are.

It is almost done in the tank. I will post photos. It isn't looking like a dumbbell. At the bottom of the bar portion, it looks like it has 5-6 sides to it. With 80% rust off, I can see two sides flat and the rest look like they have rounded out some from how much they rusted. I would assume that is normal as the thinner ends would round out some. It also seems like the end begins to taper some. It could just be that it would increase closer to the other side again where connected and it just broke at the middle. I will try and post in the next day or so.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Vintage door knob or shift lever..........?

 

[A2coins]

Does look like a shift knob but with all the cool stuff youve pulled from there who knows cant wait to see pics after you clean it. Thanks for sharing your find

 

[Maryland Dan]

Does look like a shift knob but with all the cool stuff youve pulled from there who knows cant wait to see pics after you clean it. Thanks for sharing your find

Yea, This is just some of it. Most was pulled where I believe the house was. It was a farm in the 1950s and only faint lines of a trail from aerial photos. I decided to follow those lines and found what looks like old brick pieces. Much is soft like clay. I have an 1830s key cover, pewter pieces. tombac buttons (one with a star burst), a flower button, thimbles, a kgIII, what looks like a KgII, an 1838 large cent, a trigger guard with a flower on it, a couple musket balls, etc. The only thing not from that area is the razor guard.

 

[Maryland Dan]

Vintage door knob or shift lever..........?

It is super heavy and solid. It could be something farm related. I did found a large plow tip but the thing that throws me off is how deep it was as well. Not in the photos I posted already, I do have an ox knob, mule shoes, and more buttons as well. I am wondering if it could be a shifter on a tractor but odd how solid it is.

 

[Maryland Dan]

Actual Artillery Bar-Shot was not a 1-piece solid cast iron object. Bar-Shot was a square-bodied bar made of wrought-iron with a solid cast-iron ball (or half-ball) attached onto each end of the bar. The photo below shows a real one, recovered from the shipwreck of the USS Philadelphia.

I can't tell from examining your photos whether the object you found is 1-piece cast iron or not. But the bar looks round-bodied, not square-bodied. When you've finished cleaning it by electrolysis, please let us know what its form and its "construction" are.

So after being in the tank, it is not round. Part of it looks rounded in the back but like the rust and pitting has made it that way. It almost looks like it has 5 or 6 sides to it. I am not good at determining this kind of stuff other then cleaning some, drying, and tossing on a clear coat. Thoughts?

 

[Maryland Dan]

Here is my favorite button from the site...

 

[Retired Sarge]

Maybe a hitch of sorts.........

 

[Maryland Dan]

Here are the measurements...

 

[islamoradamark]

Very interesting

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Unfortunately, many ID-request posters in this forum do not bother to answer with the additional information we ID-helpers asked for. So, Maryland Dan, I appreciate you coming back with the info (and pics) we needed to correctly ID your find with certainty... or at least, be certain that it isn't an artillery bar-shot nor a weightlifter's dumbbell.

As a thank-you... here's info about your "favorite button from the site"... although you may already know it. The word "orange" in your brass 1-piece flatbutton's backmark refers to the color of the gold gilt on it. That button was manufactured in Britain and imported into the US sometime during the 1820s-early-1830s. (It might have been made during the 1810s, but the War-of-1812 and resultant US citizen boycotting of British products for about a decade afterward make it unlikely to have been imported here during the 1810s.)

 

[Maryland Dan]

Unfortunately, many ID-request posters in this forum do not bother to answer with the additional information we ID-helpers asked for. So, Maryland Dan, I appreciate you coming back with the info (and pics) we needed to correctly ID your find with certainty... or at least, be certain that it isn't an artillery bar-shot nor a weightlifter's dumbbell. \QUOTE]

Thank you and thank you for the info. I'd rather be accurate rather than misinform others. I have a feeling this will end up in the "Who Knows?" collection of things. I tried looking into farm equipment some but most had a round shaft like a dumbbell would. I would think if used as a rolling tool of some sort, the same would go as it would be more logical. Some people suggested a sort of hitch which it may be. Since it tapers, I am not sure if it would be logical or not. I thought they tapering may have played into the possibility of it being one of those shots that extended but since multisided, I wasn't sure. Either way, still fun to find.

As I know there are some locals on this site, I don't want to reveal too much about the location but I traced the land records back. The land patents were issued to someone referred to as a "Capt." who passed prior to 1790s. The initial land patents were in the 1740s. The look of the flower on the bottom of the trigger guard reminded me of the "Tudor Rose" used for the Navy but could also just be a daisy. I only saw one button online with 6 petals compared to 5 on the navel buttons. The land was later owned by a General in the Civil War. In the area the size of a log cabin, I found over 20 buttons and soft brick etc. I made sure to not get the hopes up too high as this was found near where I found the trigger guard about 50 feet from where the home seemed to have been. I plan to look this weekend and try to find the logical path to the water which is right there as well. I hope to pull some more dropped coins to add to the collection.

Just so I know, this wouldn't be an artillery shot for the weight, bar shape, size, connection to the ball, or all three? I don't know much about artillery history or modern. Also, did anyone ever make their own artillery shots or did they all follow the same structure when made? Where they only shot from ship to ship or did people ever use on land to protect from an incoming ship? Sorry for the questions, sadly, I don't know which sites to trust for the info. If you have any suggestions where I can look into the Captain who owned the land for that period in time, let me know as well. Thank you for your time and knowledge again.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Maryland Dan wrote:
> Just so I know, this wouldn't be an artillery shot for the weight, bar shape, size, connection to the ball, or all three?

Among the reasons you listed above, the most important one is that your find is a one-piece solid cast object. Every artillery bar-shot was made by attaching two balls or half-balls onto the bar.

If your find was an "assembled" object, then we'd consider the other factors, such as the shape of the bar... and the PRECISELY-MEASURED size of the balls (or, half-balls). The very-precise size (diameter) of the bore in Colonial Era (and US civil war) cannons is well-documented in historical artillery data records. For example, a "3-Pounder caliber" cannon's bore was precisely 2.90-inches in diameter, and the cannonballs it used were therefore very precisely manufactured to be 2.84-inches in diameter. After manufacture, every cannonball's exact diameter was precisely measured by an Artillery Ordnance Inspector to make sure the ball would fit correctly (not too big, not too small) into the intended cannon's bore. For us relic-diggers and collectors, that means, if a ball's (or bar-shot's) diameter does not precisely match up with one of the historical sizes, it's not an artillery ball. (For example, a 2.7-inch diameter ball fails the cannonball-diameter test... so it absolutely cannot be a cannonball.)

Examine the historical artillery ball size-&-weight data, here:
http://www.civilwarartillery.com/shottables.htm

> Also, did anyone ever make their own artillery shots or did they all follow the same structure when made?

Generally, nobody "made their own" cannonballs nor bar-shots, etc. Cannonballs and cannons tended to be made at major ironcasting Foundries, under government purchase-contract, with strict size-specifications. (It's not so easy to cast a perfectly-round iron ball as you might think it'd be.) If you wanted to start your own Militia artillery unit, you'd order the cannons and ammo from an Iron-Foundry which was capable of such exacting work. I say "exacting" because when you're making something that uses a large gunpowder charge, it damwell BETTER be very skillfully made. (For example, at the start of the civil war there were less than 10 iron-foundries in the entire South that manufactured cannons.) But if you did try to cast your own ammo, you'd have to carefully make sure the ball's size matched up properly with the cannon's bore-size... which was "standardized" by the major European (and later, American) national Army/Navy Artillery Ordnance Department. For example, the Shot Tables charts at the link I posted above tell the British, French, US, and Confederate cannon bore and ball sizes.

> Were they only shot from ship to ship or did people ever use on land to protect from an incoming ship?

Cannonballs, Bar-Shot, and Grapeshot were used on land against ships, at harbor and river defense fortifications... not just used in ship-against-ship fights.

> Sorry for the questions, sadly, I don't know which sites to trust for the info.

Sadly, that IS a big problem with info on the internet. I recommend the civilwarartillery.com website, because I've found only a few errors among the massive amount of information there.

> If you have any suggestions where I can look into the Captain who owned the land for that period in time, let me know as well.

You said, "The land patents were issued to someone referred to as a 'Capt.' who passed prior to 1790s." Apparently, the records you found don't say whether the landowner was an army (or local Militia) Captain or a navy-ship Captain or a civilian-ship captain. That complicates your search. Sorry, I've never tried to research a 1700s person. So for that time-period, I can only suggest the obvious routes, such as Googling, or Ancestry.com's records.

> Thank you for your time and knowledge again.

You're welcome. Providing reliable historical-info answers to my fellow relic-diggers (or collectors) is why I post in the What-Is-It forum. For my credentials about the info being reliable, check my T-Net Profile.​

 

[Oroblanco]

Not to pick a fight with anyone or ruff feathers, but bar shot is not all like the image posted. Some of them have two round balls connected by a bar. Here is one example:

I have a half of one that is Dutch manufacture (1600s) and it is a round ball not a half round ball.

The item in question looks rather like a bullet starter to me, at least it is the correct size for a bullet starter.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Oroblanco wrote:
> Not to pick a fight with anyone or ruff feathers, but bar shot is not all like the image posted. Some of them have two round balls connected by a bar.

(Sigh.) My first post in this thread said bar-shot was a "bar made of wrought-iron with a solid cast-iron ball (or half-ball) attached onto each end of the bar." (That's in Post #3 in this thread.)

Not to pick a fight with anyone or ruffle feathers... but I've got a worthwhile question.​

What is the historical provenance of the maybe-barshots ion the photo you posted? I say maybe because in the photo the balls at each end appear to be not the same diameter, and also appear to be out-of-round. Plus, the length of the bar between the balls appears to be much shorter than is typically seen on actual barshot. (Note the comparative length of the bar in the photo I posted.)

 

[Maryland Dan]

N
The item in question looks rather like a bullet starter to me, at least it is the correct size for a bullet starter.

That does look after a google to be around the same size. I don't see a hole in it but I will look into that one.

 

[Maryland Dan]

I was in Colonial Williamsburg a couple weeks ago and was wondering the odds of this one. I am guessing these were used for other things and not just silver. I asked the silversmith about the shaft not being rounded and he said it was flat all around so it would be work well in a vice. It is a long shot but thought I would post if someone else comes across thread and can see another option. The silversmith said the steel was polished to a high sheen and mine is cast iron. Not sure if mine was some sort of stake for molding items. I have not found any silver at this site sadly. I did get another large cent.