Barrels in fast water

[principedeleon]

Winner, winner chicken dinner. What do you have to pay for a P180. Might make a deal with you

You bought that one off ebay?

 

[Banjopicker]

I'm pretty new to prospecting and very new to dredging, but I know boats. Unless youre planning on sitting an outboard on it never see a difference

 

[Hoser John]

Them's bloody horrendous photos Oakview NO dredge deserves to die such a ungodly death such as that. This is what Forest Circus/Cal-Fire did to my property "SAVING IT". with napalm-Cabin?? You don't need no stinkn' cabin sic sic sic.......John

 

[Oakview2]

If they had any reponsible timber harvest policies, we wouldn't be losing property and we would have a heck of a lot more water to boot

Don't have to worry about frogs and toads, they incenerated the forrest. Sorry to see these libertards stupid policies cost you so much

 

[omnicron]

Winner, winner chicken dinner. What do you have to pay for a P180. Might make a deal with you

Keene has the p180's for 3/4" keyed shafts. If I remember they are $385, same price as the threaded p180's. I am very open to a deal.

 

[omnicron]

I'm pretty new to prospecting and very new to dredging, but I know boats. Unless youre planning on sitting an outboard on it never see a difference

Umm outboard on what?

 

[G1sammons]

[QUOTE=

 

[omnicron]

Ahh, well I don't know if I would want to put one on mine...gravity will get it down stream just fine...to get up stream It would have to be a very large one...no thanks!

 

[omnicron]

Ok so I'm trying to do my math..keep in mind, I can count to 21 with no problems
I'm trying to calculate how much flotation (barrels) I'm going to need.
Water weighs 8.3 pounds a gallon
A 15 gallon drum @50% submersion will displace 7.5 gallons or carry 62.25 pounds.
A 30 gallon drum @50% submersion will displace 15 gallons or carry 124.5 pounds.

I estimate my sluice will have about 25 gallons on it when running. 20" x 60" x 5" = 6000 cubic inches of water or 25 gallon
25*8.3= 207pounds, I'll round this to 275 pound for water in jet flare, lines and the slurry
I'm figuring 100 pounds for engine/pumps and compressor.
100 pounds for sluice, flare, jet
Lets say 100 pounds for barrels and frame.
I'll add in 50 pounds for a safety margin.

For a grand total of 625 pounds.
Does that seem high?

So according to my math (sic) I would need 15 - 15 gallon barrels, round it to 16
Or 5 - 30 gallon barrels round to 6
Does this sound right or am I all fudged up?
As I stated earlier, math is not even my weak subject, it doesn't even make my list!

 

[G1sammons]

[QUOTE=

 

[omnicron]

I made a mistake, the box will be 20". I thought I corrected that mistake but maybe I didn't. 2 P180's and a infinity jet should rock a 20" box.

This is a great read for venturi jets, everyone should read it.
Gould Engineering Bazooka Dredge

 

[G1sammons]

[QUOTE="

 

[principedeleon]

I made a mistake, the box will be 20". I thought I corrected that mistake but maybe I didn't. 2 P180's and a infinity jet should rock a 20" box. This is a great read for venturi jets, everyone should read it. Gould Engineering Bazooka Dredge

I looked upon an old thread and i understood something i never thought about the whole issue we was talking about. It was that with a infinity jet or any more efficient jet you use less water and a greater suction then a typical dredge right. But less water equal less material that could be wash. So even if you get a suction going of the same draw of a tipical 4" dredge you wont be able to suck the same amount of material since you have less water to wash clean your sluice . You will basically overload your box easier always since you will always not be able to push it to the limits you take on a normal jet. What must be the feed rate of a infinity jet then ? 1/4 material to water ratio rather from the 1/3 material to water ?

 

[G1sammons]

I read an old thread and i understanded something i never thought about . With a infinity jet or any more efficient jet you use less water and a greater suction then a typical dredge . But less water equal less material that could be wash. So even if you get a suction going of the same draw of a tipical 4" dredge you wont be able to suck the same amount of material since you have less water to wash clean your sluice . You will basically overload your box easier always since you will always not be able to push it to the limits you take a normal jet. What must be the feed rate of a infinity jet then ? 1/4 material to water ratio rather from the 1/3 material to water ?

Do some thinking here ! It's not less water thru the dredge it's less water to the jet to make it operate!

 

[G1sammons]

I read an old thread and i understanded something i never thought about . With a infinity jet or any more efficient jet you use less water and a greater suction then a typical dredge . But less water equal less material that could be wash. So even if you get a suction going of the same draw of a tipical 4" dredge you wont be able to suck the same amount of material since you have less water to wash clean your sluice . You will basically overload your box easier always since you will always not be able to push it to the limits you take a normal jet. What must be the feed rate of a infinity jet then ? 1/4 material to water ratio rather from the 1/3 material to water ?

Don't understand what your thinking p?
Why would anybody want a bigger sluice and hose just to have less water flow thru there box? The idea is the jets uses a smaller pump and water flow to the jet to do the same job and any added power from there adds vacuum and more water flow thru the sluice... Not less

 

[G1sammons]

Wow !

 

[principedeleon]

Don't understand what your thinking p? Why would anybody want a bigger sluice and hose just to have less water flow thru there box? The idea is the jets uses a smaller pump and water flow to the jet to do the same job and any added power from there adds vacuum and more water flow thru the sluice... Not less

Im talking about the reason he told me not to go small go big because even if you get a 300gpm draw on a 4" using a infinity jet when that goes through the hose and reaches the jet theres only a addition of 100gpm a example to help clean the sluice and make the riffles work . Think about using a highbanker that uses a small pump to wash the dirt that is picked up by a backhoe . The more water the more YPH you can move. You cant have less water an expect to wash more. In a normal jet you hog the hoes with material but you have an extra of that same amount of draw of just WATER to clear up your sluice. If your sluice is just mostly depend on the water coming from the suction. hoes you cant hog or suck as much material as your normal jet dredge . Get it ?

 

[principedeleon]

Do some thinking here ! It's not less water thru the dredge it's less water to the jet to make it operate!

When you compare two dredges running on the same suction draw. The infinity is using 1/3 of the water if the normal jet. So a example is 100gpm inlet + 300=400gpm right... A normal log jet is using 300gpm inlet + 300gpm draw= 600 gpm through the sluice . But can you wash as much rocks as the normal jet in that same setting nooo.. You have 1/3 less water going through the sluice..

Edit: so i believe if you push your engine to 3/4 rpm you can push 400 gpm and draw 1200 = 1600 gpm. Double the draw of a normal jet running at the same speed but you will only move a 1.5 more material . Since your feed rates are less .

 

[omnicron]

Pincipedeleon, your completely missing the point. You use less water from the PUMP to create the same amount of suction, Think about that for a second. If you drink something through a straw and you don't suck very hard, you don't get very much liquid. If you suck harder, you get more fluid, RIGHT? Think about it, if you suck harder on a straw you get more liquid. If you use less water to create the venturi and same amount of suction, your volume will stay the same. Forget about having less water from your pump through the venturi, your talking only a small amount of water in the grand scheme of things.


The following was copied from Gould Engineering:
"The design of the venturi generator is completely different from any other device. The actual jet is located at 360 degrees around the outside of the incoming water from the suction hose. The concept is to grab the outer perimeter of the water from the suction hose, and break the surface tension on the wall of the tube and accelerate the body of water and material. The losses in this type of jet are very minimal. Because the jet gap is so small, the jets are usually made adjustable for maximum efficiency. This has a built in advantage, if the gap was to get clogged, then it could be opened to self-clean."

"The benefit is operating with smaller motors & pumps or eliminating one motor & pump, where two are needed to complete the job. The extra motor and pump are also very heavy when you have to pack it in to a remote spot. Another benefit is you will use less gas, for those of you that had to pack in your gas a long way from the road. There is one conclusion that I have arrived at with all this testing, there is a minimum size pump & motor that can be used to produce the venturi, after that size is met, the improved jets just produce more vacuum for a given size pump system."

"The test setup was very simple, a short piece of pipe with a vacuum port venmturi was installed at 90 degrees to the suction side of the Log and a 15.0' length of Suction Hose was attached to the other end. A Vacuum Gauge was connected to the vacuum port. A water pump, capable of producing 225 GPM, was attached to the water supply Jet of the Log. The pump was operated at half throttle and then full throttle, and each reading recorded. The full throttle data produced the best-controlled data, so that is what will be reported on. Why was a Vacuum Gage used instead of using a Calibrated Hand? I thought empirical data would best be derived at by using a Scientific Instrument, over the Calibrated Hand approach. The average reading was 4.0 inches of vacuum at full throttle. An interesting thing was found when I testing the Log, I decided to extend the length of the Log by various amounts and record the results. By extending the length of the Log by 12", the Vacuum would be increased by 1.0" of vacuum, for a total of 5.0" inches of vacuum, or an improvement of 25%. Why would increasing the length of the Log provide more suction? It is the nature of the beast, the Venturi System derives the vacuum or suction by various pressure zones. I did not attempt to calculate the proper length. The original length was probably determined by trial and error. It will be noted that there was no appreciable difference from one manufacture to another, they all did what they were supposed to do."

"Why are vacuum measurements important and what do they mean? The various readings are used for a baseline to measure the differences from one device to another. The vacuum readings are directly proportional to the suction at the end of the nozzle."

"The 2nd. Device tested was an experimental Tri-Jet, it tested at 7.8 inches of vacuum, at full throttle for an increase of 95%. I understand that there is a smaller manufacture of dredges that installs his Tri-Jet in the Suction Hose located about 5.0' from the Dredge. The people using his equipment say that this installation greatly increases the Suction."

"The 3rd. Device was another Experimental Jet, called the Infinity Jet, that device measured 9.5 inches of vacuum for an increase of 137.5%. The 4th. Device tested was a real shock, it was the old fashioned Suction Nozzle and it tested at 6.7 inches of vacuum, for an increase of 67.5% more power."

 

[omnicron]

Just thinking about it, I could probably get away with a larger box. I could run my engines a little faster and move more material/water and with using GoldHog mats, I'll have a steeper sluice angle and that would help the large rocks to clear off.