chalkoutline
Hero Member
BTW, to transport that much gold and silver each of the 10 men had two pack mules.
Beale Codes Truths
- Thread starter Two Witnesses Vision
- Start date
Thanks for laying it out. My research is generally focused on Who could have accomplished this and focusing on the infrastructure of what a company or group of folks would need in order to accomplish the things they say they did. An ad hoc group traveling under the “pretense” of hunting, travels 1700 miles to wild country, find a mine that somehow has gold and silver in it (not normal), they mine it, transport it, and then leave it. Under your reading, they attempt a 3rd mining stint and are never heard from again. Your historical research is looking at possible TJB’s that were in Virginia and could the letter as written be true. Is that right?
TruthbeTold
Sr. Member
SOuce10:
Do you have any factual evidence to show that a "cache was buried in Lynchburg and then transferred to STL?
chalkoutline
Hero Member
My research takes the story at face value and then tests whether any part of it can be disproven.
Yes. I found a TB Jr from Iron Gate, Fincastle, VA who matches Robert Morriss's description being wealthy, well educated and from western Virginia.
I have also proven a group of 30 men could have made the trip as described using horses and pack mules and used the Wiggins ferry to cross the Mississippi in St. Louis.
Its a sound story! That doesn't mean its true. Just means it can't be disproven.
chalkoutline
Hero Member
If the story can't be disproven, the only approach left is whether the ciphers can be decoded without the KEY from St. Louis.
The alphabetical strings found when applying the DOI KEY from Cipher 2 to the Cipher 1 numbers guarantees its either a hoax or cannot be solved without the original KEY.
The alphabetical strings found when applying the DOI KEY from Cipher 2 to the Cipher 1 numbers guarantees its either a hoax or cannot be solved without the original KEY.
chalkoutline
Hero Member
I asked Google AI..
in 1820, a group of 30 men starting in Colorado traveled 500 miles together at which point 20 men returned to Colorado and 10 men continued to st louis.
is this possible?
Yes, this is completely possible. Geographically, historically, and logically, the scenario aligns perfectly with how expeditions worked during that era.
in 1820, a group of 30 men starting in Colorado traveled 500 miles together at which point 20 men returned to Colorado and 10 men continued to st louis.
is this possible?
Yes, this is completely possible. Geographically, historically, and logically, the scenario aligns perfectly with how expeditions worked during that era.
No. I have no evidence of that.
I don’t think the metal ever sat in Bedford. I read the Virginia surface as cover and St. Louis as the desk. I’m not going to dump that case here, only to say the story at face value with a Virginia company still has holes the letter doesn’t patch.
A trip that “can’t be disproven,” a Fincastle TB Jr., and Morriss’s impression of “western Virginia” don’t close those holes. After 500 miles 2/3 of a Virginia party turn around; the letter never says they were then safe or why they should not have gone home. After the second burial he hands Morriss the box, writes from St. Louis, and says “ho” for the plains again.
What the letters actually repeat is St. Louis. They outfit there, they change silver for jewels there, the May 1822 letter is written there, and the key is left with a friend in this place. Bedford gets the burial sentence. St. Louis keeps getting the next instruction. That’s the part I’m still stuck on, even if a Colorado to Virginia itinerary can be walked on a map.
chalkoutline
Hero Member
If the metal never left st louis why did they trade for jewels to save transport?
The trade is pointless at that point.
The trade is pointless at that point.
Fair question. “To save transportation” is written as if the rest of the pile is still moving. I don’t read that as proof the metal went to Bedford. I read it as why they turned some silver into jewels in St. Louis — the one town the letters keep naming for outfits, the swap, and the next letter. Jewels shrink a pile. Silver doesn’t. The sentence explains the swap. It does not, by itself, put the vault in Bedford County. Under my reading, the cache is not buried in St. Louis, but in another county within Missouri. So saving weight for transportation still makes sense.
Last edited:
So here is my thought process. I don’t think a Thomas J. Beale as written in the pamphlet exists, but let’s say I’m wrong. If you believe he was a real man who left Virginia, spent years in the West, found a mine with gold and silver, procured mining equipment on the spot, mined it, brought the gold and silver back, and buried it in Bedford County about four miles from Buford’s, twice, then show the work. I need receipts of some kind. I need a party that can actually do that trip. Money for a multi year outfit, a way through the tribes, a route to Santa Fe that already existed and they could use to travel, a place to turn metal into something they could carry (Jewelry), and a reason they could sit on that much weight without leaving a trail. A name in a census is not that. A tavern in Bedford is not that. “He could have read Pike” is not that.
If the story is literal, the engine has to be visible. Where is it?
If the story is literal, the engine has to be visible. Where is it?
chalkoutline
Hero Member
You must be asking someone other than me because ive already said it is a sound (i.e., possible) but that doesn't mean it's true.
Every question you've raised, ive answered demonstrating how sound the story is.
You're asking for records that don't exist. If that proves the story is false so be it. I don’t care.
The only thing that matters is whether the the ciphers can be solved ...and they can't. Ive explained why multiple times.
Why don’t you put forth your theory and let ask you questions
Every question you've raised, ive answered demonstrating how sound the story is.
You're asking for records that don't exist. If that proves the story is false so be it. I don’t care.
The only thing that matters is whether the the ciphers can be solved ...and they can't. Ive explained why multiple times.
Why don’t you put forth your theory and let ask you questions
chalkoutline
Hero Member
BTW, if you look at my profile you will see a mans face and written vertcally to the left is the name Thomas. Beale mean hansome man. Im not saying the sketched face is handsome (i.e. he looks like me), but could that be code for Thomas Beale?
What i haven't share is lower on the page is scribbles that look like mountains, a river and fences.
All were drawn in pencil every other scribble in the book were in ink except anther page where monuments (i.e., an oblelisk) and words in latin are also in pencil. Are these drawn by they same person since they are the only scribbles in pencil?
Do they lead to treasure?
What i haven't share is lower on the page is scribbles that look like mountains, a river and fences.
All were drawn in pencil every other scribble in the book were in ink except anther page where monuments (i.e., an oblelisk) and words in latin are also in pencil. Are these drawn by they same person since they are the only scribbles in pencil?
Do they lead to treasure?
Last edited:
chalkoutline
Hero Member
Am i telling the truth about the book published in 1795 or is it a story i made up?
So, I want to be clear, I enjoy our discussions and I don’t want this to sound mean or argumentative. I do have a theory. I am tracking a specific network that can actually carry the weight of the letters; the money, routes, cover, gold/silver, etc.
I won’t put the full thing on the board yet. The history is what I intend to publish. The cipher work stays separate. I have not pulled anything out of the ground, so I am not going to stand here and say I am right.
You asked me to put a theory up so you can question it. That’s fair and reasonable. The claim I am making is this: if the pamphlet is literal, the party has to be visible in the record. I think I have that party. I do not think a lone adventurer from Bedford does. I believe the party was a Missouri network and that Virginia is the cover. Bedford, Buford’s, and the innkeeper are the surface the pamphlet wants you to look at. The engine that can actually do the trip is not in that county or state.
I won’t put the full thing on the board yet. The history is what I intend to publish. The cipher work stays separate. I have not pulled anything out of the ground, so I am not going to stand here and say I am right.
You asked me to put a theory up so you can question it. That’s fair and reasonable. The claim I am making is this: if the pamphlet is literal, the party has to be visible in the record. I think I have that party. I do not think a lone adventurer from Bedford does. I believe the party was a Missouri network and that Virginia is the cover. Bedford, Buford’s, and the innkeeper are the surface the pamphlet wants you to look at. The engine that can actually do the trip is not in that county or state.
chalkoutline
Hero Member
If its a Missouri network who hid the treasure and no one knows about it, why would they need a Virginia story as a cover?
Are you suggesting someone found out about the Missouri treasure so they fabricated a Virginia story to throw them off?
How exactly does that work?
The people who found out about the Missouri treading reads the 1885 pamphlet and concludes...i guess we were wrong. We need to go to Virginia?
Are you suggesting someone found out about the Missouri treasure so they fabricated a Virginia story to throw them off?
How exactly does that work?
The people who found out about the Missouri treading reads the 1885 pamphlet and concludes...i guess we were wrong. We need to go to Virginia?
chalkoutline
Hero Member
Now if you are saying you solved location Cipher 1 and the decoded message says Missouri instead of 4 miles from Bufords.. thats different.
Then all i need to know is how you got past the alphabetical strings.
Then all i need to know is how you got past the alphabetical strings.
I get why that sounds weird. Why would a Missouri group wrap this in a Virginia story? Because I think this was profits from Santa Fe trade during the last years of the Spanish embargo. The kind of gold and silver you don’t want sitting in a bank during or after the Panic of 1819. A real perilous enterprise with real secrecy that requires the utmost discretion. Which is why Beale goes to great lengths to form a company with only the type of folks who could stomach an adventure of this magnitude.
Virginia is where everybody looks because that’s what the letter says. You print Bedford and Buford’s and people spend the next hundred years digging in the wrong state. You print the real county and you just handed them a map.
I’m not saying somebody later made up Virginia to throw hunters off. I’m saying the pamphlet was built that way. It’s built to show one thing plainly, yet have parallels elsewhere. Morriss, Buford’s, Ward, that’s a story people know. They’re the anchor for the region and misdirection. The guys who actually owned the ground didn’t need a pamphlet to find their own county.
If this was money they didn’t want taxed, or gold/silver they didn’t want sitting in a bank during/after the Panic of 1819, you don’t publish the real spot in 1885. You publish a treasure story somewhere else. The family already knows the area. The clues are for the heirs. Strangers get Virginia. If the heirs figure it out, they claim the find as the lost Beale treasure without the immediate ramifications of saying it’s untaxed Santa Fe trade profits.
And no, I did not solve cipher 1 into English. I don’t have a decoded sentence that says Missouri. I didn’t beat the alphabet strings with another book. I am not treating cipher 1 as a book cipher. I’m not playing that game. Everyone has done that already. I’m saying the party in the letters has to be real enough to do the job, and a guy named Thomas Jefferson Beale isn’t that party. The place I’m looking at isn’t Bedford. But the language in the papers is more detailed than it first appears.
Virginia is where everybody looks because that’s what the letter says. You print Bedford and Buford’s and people spend the next hundred years digging in the wrong state. You print the real county and you just handed them a map.
I’m not saying somebody later made up Virginia to throw hunters off. I’m saying the pamphlet was built that way. It’s built to show one thing plainly, yet have parallels elsewhere. Morriss, Buford’s, Ward, that’s a story people know. They’re the anchor for the region and misdirection. The guys who actually owned the ground didn’t need a pamphlet to find their own county.
If this was money they didn’t want taxed, or gold/silver they didn’t want sitting in a bank during/after the Panic of 1819, you don’t publish the real spot in 1885. You publish a treasure story somewhere else. The family already knows the area. The clues are for the heirs. Strangers get Virginia. If the heirs figure it out, they claim the find as the lost Beale treasure without the immediate ramifications of saying it’s untaxed Santa Fe trade profits.
And no, I did not solve cipher 1 into English. I don’t have a decoded sentence that says Missouri. I didn’t beat the alphabet strings with another book. I am not treating cipher 1 as a book cipher. I’m not playing that game. Everyone has done that already. I’m saying the party in the letters has to be real enough to do the job, and a guy named Thomas Jefferson Beale isn’t that party. The place I’m looking at isn’t Bedford. But the language in the papers is more detailed than it first appears.
chalkoutline
Hero Member
Here's my take...
In 1823, the misouri historical review published the memoirs of William Becknell. In 1840, James B Ward moved to St. Louis and St. Charles, Missouri, where he lived and worked for three years before returning to Lynchburg.
It was during this time he could/would have read William Becknells memoirs and used them to create a sound, believable story to fool readers into buying the 1885 pamphlet.
I.e., Occam's Razor
In 1823, the misouri historical review published the memoirs of William Becknell. In 1840, James B Ward moved to St. Louis and St. Charles, Missouri, where he lived and worked for three years before returning to Lynchburg.
It was during this time he could/would have read William Becknells memoirs and used them to create a sound, believable story to fool readers into buying the 1885 pamphlet.
I.e., Occam's Razor
chalkoutline
Hero Member
Ward resigned from the United States Military Academy in January 1840. Following his resignation, he journeyed directly from the state of New York to St. Louis, Missouri, where he took a job working as an assistant to the Military Pay Clerk. [1, 2]
He remained in the region for a few years, marrying Harriet Emaline Otey in nearby St. Charles, Missouri, before eventually returning to Lynchburg, Virginia, in early 1843. [1]
If you are a realbresearcher you should have no problem locating their marriage record. Id try ancestry.com
He remained in the region for a few years, marrying Harriet Emaline Otey in nearby St. Charles, Missouri, before eventually returning to Lynchburg, Virginia, in early 1843. [1]
If you are a realbresearcher you should have no problem locating their marriage record. Id try ancestry.com
Similar threads
Users who are viewing this thread
Supporting Vendors
View all →
