blunts......oh and axes

[mission]

i didnt want to hijack the tool id post....i have a few blunts in my collection that im sure are for hunting and not reworked into scrapers. they were are no different than todays blunts for arrows. you dont just hurt and animal with one, just cause its not sharp doesnt mean it wont kill, a thump from one of these will take down small game no problem. i have watched a rabbit run off with a arrow because the sharp point didnt hit a vital, but a non penatration hit will break bones or knock em out. easy to see some of you only '' hunt'' artifacts. on a side note i learned as an eagle scout the most important thing in camp is the hatchet so dont throw out those "blanks" or "used cores" or whatever they are being called cause i think there are a lot more axe heads out there than some of you realize. they are a multifunction tool that YOU may not need much around the house but live outdoors for a while and you will see how many tasks can be done with them, different shapes, sizes, sharpnesses. hardstone grooved axes have their place but they chopped alot more than wood, and that is where the flint comes in, the jobs that dont need that straight smooth edge.

 

[painterx7]

Lolol yes they always are dead by the time I walk over to it some drop on the spot some run 25 yards then drop but I won't shot unless I have a sure shot and my 7 mm Remington mag assures a quick death ....

 

[painterx7]

Plus paleo indians would throw spears at big prey and then follow the animal repeatedly doing the same until the animal was weak enough to finish off knocking out a mammoth with a blunt point would be pretty hard IMOP

 

[GatorBoy]

you havent even seen my pieces and you assume they were throw aways? thats an expert opinion ! one breath is "expert knappers" the next is "they threw that chunk away" i have tiny points and they threw away large pieces as junk? your living in a modern world watching to many hobby knappers make beautiful stuff and throwing big flakes out. they are not making stuff to survive with and they rarely walk to a flint deposite and carry stone back home to the airconditioned garage. i have a couple steel knives from the 40's ? that are resharpened to almost nothing, nowadays if a knife gets dull you throw it and buy a new one, like the repurposed points show these people did not waste and to say "they couldnt use that for anything cause it stacked on them so they threw it away is" is ......funny

What's funny is you don't even know much about what your saying
And obviously do not understand
Why some stone will not knapp properly.. and not everything you find is finished. you sure have a lot of attitude and opposition for someone who has added nothing and whose inexperience is obvious.
This is my last post on this thread.. but I want to put down in print I don't think you're going to last in this forum very long continuing what you're up to..having your own opinion is one thing... I know I'm known to have mine... but making entire posts to bad mouth everyone else's with nothing to back yours up is another... just what is your mission..."mission".
If you stopped and researched what's been said to you instead of rambling on..you would learn alot more.

 

[monsterrack]

Being a hunter who makes his own hand made Osage bow , cedar arrows with turkey feather fletching all tied with deer sinew and animal hide glue, I can say from my times of taking game most of the time I have to blood trail the animal and wait for the game to go down. My points are trade steel repos. and I have taken game with a flint point, but most of the time you have to wait till the game is with in 20 yards to make a good shot. I'm sure there are people that can shoot better than I , but I use a plains Indian style bow not a long bow, this type of bow was for horse back hunting. What I have found over the years of artifact hunting on my own and with the dept. of archives and history that most well made axes that where polished , where placed in the grave for that person to use in the next life and other ones where used to chop wood for what ever they needed it for. As for the idea of not everyone was a good flintknapper that has to be true, but also some Native Americans where part of cultures that had expert knappers and time to spend on the art of flintknapping, some used what they could make at a moments notice. As for the blunt stone for points, I don't think they would have taken the time to do that when an arrow shaft with out a point works just has well, this has been documented in plains tribes and southern tribes at the time of contact and I have used them on rabbits myself and they work real well. I am no expert but due to hands on experience I have to go with this, just saying.

 

[painterx7]

Being a hunter who makes his own hand made Osage bow , cedar arrows with turkey feather fletching all tied with deer sinew and animal hide glue, I can say from my times of taking game most of the time I have to blood trail the animal and wait for the game to go down. My points are trade steel repos. and I have taken game with a flint point, but most of the time you have to wait till the game is with in 20 yards to make a good shot. I'm sure there are people that can shoot better than I , but I use a plains Indian style bow not a long bow, this type of bow was for horse back hunting. What I have found over the years of artifact hunting on my own and with the dept. of archives and history that most well made axes that where polished , where placed in the grave for that person to use in the next life and other ones where used to chop wood for what ever they needed it for. As for the idea of not everyone was a good flintknapper that has to be true, but also some Native Americans where part of cultures that had expert knappers and time to spend on the art of flintknapping, some used what they could make at a moments notice. As for the blunt stone for points, I don't think they would have taken the time to do that when an arrow shaft with out a point works just has well, this has been documented in plains tribes and southern tribes at the time of contact and I have used them on rabbits myself and they work real well. I am no expert but due to hands on experience I have to go with this, just saying.

Well spoken

 

[rock]

Im going to show a point that is clearly archaic period I found about a month ago. It was never finished and is a great study piece for me. I dont have never knapped not even tried ever. But it shows they made the base before they made the tip. Now why the tip was never finished I have no clue it looks as if they ran out of room for the type of point they wanted to make. To me they would of just altered it to another type but instead he or she just threw it down for me to find it many thousands of yrs later.

 

[wvwildman]

i didnt want to hijack the tool id post....i have a few blunts in my collection that im sure are for hunting and not reworked into scrapers. they were are no different than todays blunts for arrows. you dont just hurt and animal with one, just cause its not sharp doesnt mean it wont kill, a thump from one of these will take down small game no problem. i have watched a rabbit run off with a arrow because the sharp point didnt hit a vital, but a non penatration hit will break bones or knock em out. easy to see some of you only '' hunt'' artifacts. on a side note i learned as an eagle scout the most important thing in camp is the hatchet so dont throw out those "blanks" or "used cores" or whatever they are being called cause i think there are a lot more axe heads out there than some of you realize. they are a multifunction tool that YOU may not need much around the house but live outdoors for a while and you will see how many tasks can be done with them, different shapes, sizes, sharpnesses. hardstone grooved axes have their place but they chopped alot more than wood, and that is where the flint comes in, the jobs that dont need that straight smooth edge.

fire them blunts up i'll help ya smoke them

 

[Tnmountains]

I have killed many, many deer with a bow. Once you get past that first one it is not to difficult. It does not take much to kill an animal either. I think where they excelled was in the wounding and tracking. You can bleed out an animal by pushing it. Or of its a good hit you can wait it out. Most hunters know which to do. You can also clean one with a sliver of flint. The hide pulls off without any tool other than trimming a circle around the hoofs and a slit up the leg. Most hafted scrapers were like they said in my opinion used in the cleaning of the hide before the brain soak.
Blunt or stunner is an old word kinda like a bird point. Not really correct words but we still use them.

Here are some I found. I have many types Adenas,Bifuricate base . I am sure they made them but as they blew a lot of tools during manufacture they just evolved the tool. I am sure they kept piles of them handy.
Welcome to T-Net

 

[painterx7]

fire them blunts up i'll help ya smoke them

Pass it lol

 

[painterx7]

Here's a nice blunt

 

[mission]

i wasnt looking for a fight here, just have an opinion from my life experiences. im sure you experts have the last 15000 years all figured out, every clan of natives and their every thought and action. you know the secrets of the pyramids and the coral castle im sure. i will just quit picking up artifacts, i have no REAL understanding of them so its best left to the select few. ill give up thinking on my own as i could never have anything to offer. should i buy a ford or chevy, id hate to get it wrong myself so who has studied THEM for decades and KNOWS which is the CORRECT buy? so sorry to offend, ill go throw my usless rocks in the toilet like the natives did, im must be searching in their landfill

 

[rock]

i wasnt looking for a fight here, just have an opinion from my life experiences. im sure you experts have the last 15000 years all figured out, every clan of natives and their every thought and action. you know the secrets of the pyramids and the coral castle im sure. i will just quit picking up artifacts, i have no REAL understanding of them so its best left to the select few. ill give up thinking on my own as i could never have anything to offer. should i buy a ford or chevy, id hate to get it wrong myself so who has studied THEM for decades and KNOWS which is the CORRECT buy? so sorry to offend, ill go throw my usless rocks in the toilet like the natives did, im must be searching in their landfill

Everyone has the rite to their own beliefs. I have one for you to ponder on. Here goes, ready? I actually wonder if after the cortex on some stones is removed if after thousands of years if the stone doesnt actually start to break down just as bone does in certain types of soil. There you have it a theory of mine.

 

[GatorBoy]

You might consider yourself lucky if you are searching in their landfill.
Look up the word midden.
Wow..what a great guy.
Mabey not looking for a fight.. go back and read your posts.. it will find you.
Why do you feel the need to be constantly disrespectful to folks who only offered to help you?

 

[GatorBoy]

i would agree the examples you have look like scrapers, when i get a chance i will post a variation that would be useless as a scraper but is not a sharp point, a dull true blunt point, not to short to be reworked to a point if needed, not flat,not different that todays blunts. the items i call flint axes are knapped, to the shape and any
'expert" can see it.

Still waiting

 

[kansa54]

you havent even seen my pieces and you assume they were throw aways? thats an expert opinion ! one breath is "expert knappers" the next is "they threw that chunk away" i have tiny points and they threw away large pieces as junk? your living in a modern world watching to many hobby knappers make beautiful stuff and throwing big flakes out. they are not making stuff to survive with and they rarely walk to a flint deposite and carry stone back home to the airconditioned garage. i have a couple steel knives from the 40's ? that are resharpened to almost nothing, nowadays if a knife gets dull you throw it and buy a new one, like the repurposed points show these people did not waste and to say "they couldnt use that for anything cause it stacked on them so they threw it away is" is ......funny

I agree with Mission on what he states in the above quote. The stone they gathered was utilized to the fullest. I would guess that if you examined large flakes, found on a camp site, with a microscope, you would find several that had cut wear on them. You can knock a flake from a spall and slice the finger from a leather glove in one swipe.
Mission is also correct about bringing rock from a quarry site. Just try carrying 50lbs of rock very far. You will definitely want to use as much as possible to avoid another trip.
I'm not an expert on anything but I've been flintkapping and building primitive bows for 20yrs.

 

[GatorBoy]

Have you seen the loads of material on a site?
Many occupied many times over thousands of years.
You are a Flint knapper...just look at the pile at your feet from one sitting... do you also agree with the way he posts his opinions.. you're one of the clueless hobby knappers.
.. according to him... and he has yet to show one example..not even one he started this thread about.
So lets just see some already ..its pretty simple to cut to the chase.
Every sharp piece of Flint is a tool with that thinking.
That's not the point here... "Blunts"
If anyone rememberes is the subject.

 

[unclemac]

I have killed many, many deer with a bow. Once you get past that first one it is not to difficult. It does not take much to kill an animal either. I think where they excelled was in the wounding and tracking. You can bleed out an animal by pushing it. Or of its a good hit you can wait it out. Most hunters know which to do. You can also clean one with a sliver of flint. The hide pulls off without any tool other than trimming a circle around the hoofs and a slit up the leg. Most hafted scrapers were like they said in my opinion used in the cleaning of the hide before the brain soak.
Blunt or stunner is an old word kinda like a bird point. Not really correct words but we still use them.




Here are some I found. I have many types Adenas,Bifuricate base . I am sure they made them but as they blew a lot of tools during manufacture they just evolved the tool. I am sure they kept piles of them handy.
Welcome to T-Net
View attachment 854115

remember too that a tool designed for a specific purpose could be used for anything a fella needs it for...i have opened a lot of paint cans with screwdrivers and even used a wrench as a hammer from time to time...

 

[kansa54]

Have you seen the loads of material on a site?
Many occupied many times over thousands of years.
You are a Flint knapper...just look at the pile at your feet from one sitting... do you also agree with the way he posts his opinions and has yet to show one example..not even one he started this thread about.
So lets just see some already ..its pretty simple to cut to the chase.
Every sharp piece of Flint is a tool with that thinking.
That's not the point here... "
If anyone rememberes is the subject.

Gator, 50lbs of rock leaves a pile of chips the size of a small hill.:happysmiley
You're right about this getting off topic.

 

[unclemac]

grooved axes to chop wood? not to sure if they were used or even practical for such activities. from what i understand before the Europeans came natives had to rely on what fell and what they could knock down or break on there own.

..uh.......

canoes, totem poles, longhouses, masks, etc. etc.

 

[mission]

yes as stated when i get time, weekend,sorry i work have a family and want to take good pics in good light for you when i can. and yes i started this post with no harm intended unlike the replys i got from ONE person