burial pot bottoms?

[Jon Stewart]

Your thoughts? Do they exist?


I have what I believe is the bottom of a burial pot. It is the size of a 50 cent piece and has a drawing of a six legged bug.

Didn't know what it represented when I found it laying in an area that was chuck full of pottery. Wife went to a museum and saw several burial pot bottoms and said that the drawing represented the person that had been buried in someway and that the bottom of the pot was knocked out so spirits could be released.

I mentioned this recently to a geologist that has one of the best artifact collections I have ever seen and he disregarded that idea of what the sherd represented.



But then again he contends that moccasin lasts exist and many on here don't. Does anyone really know what the things we find stand for or are used for outside of the maker of the item? Are we all just guessing?

Open for discussion!!!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Where's the picture? Hard to say anything without seeing the piece in question.

 

[GatorBoy]

As far as your broad question "do we really know?"
The best we can ever be expected to do with a lot of things is make educated guesses by putting together as much information as possible.... On a case by case basis.
Just saying we'll never really know.. When it comes to functionality of tools and such seems a bit silly to me since we can replicate the tools with the same materials and put them to the test in real time.
When it comes to ritualistic items and beliefs that would be a different story.. And I personally would rely on stories passed down by mouth and written accounts.
As far as your pot chard a photo would definitely help

 

[rock]

Almost everything is not written in stone in my opinion. Like my lucky rocks I find and then artifacts close to them. Just a guess but a strange connection some how . I also believe the pots were broken on purpose by the amount of sherds I find in the creek. Allot of the pieces are black stained from the "Black Drink". I am starting to think they all drank the black drink and then broke the small pots on the rocks in the creek to seal the deal. Again just an opinion.

 

[ncnurseryman]

Rock: what's the black drink??

 

[rock]

Rock: what's the black drink??

GatorBoy can describe it the best.

 

[GatorBoy]

Its a drink that was used in rituals made from a highly caffeinated plant called the Yaupon holly.
(Ilex Vomitoria) .. That's a pretty appetizing and descriptive scientific name.
Shell dippers were used in the ceremony down here .

 

[73dguard]

Personally I am curious as to how the shard is tempered--does it have quartz or shell fragments that would give the artifact more durability than pure clay earthenware? Archeology is cultural anthropology, the study of how people live. Archeologists tend to see things working from the present or known and work backwards whereas historians tend to start at the beginning and work towards the present. I majored in history and did contract archeology for six years. Sometimes it seemed that the principals of the project knew what they were taking about. Other times other principals or field chiefs were coming up with interpretations which were absurd, made me wonder what they were smoking. So yes, I think sometimes it is a guess. How good a guess, well...And yes, due to several like artifacts found in mounds in Ohio and nearby I believe burial pots exist.

 

[GatorBoy]

Not trying to split hairs here or go off topic but I'm pretty sure pure clay wouldn't make it through the drying/ firing process without cracking

 

[Jon Stewart]

I can hardly turn this computer on let alone download a photo and post it. I would be glad to go the Walmart and make a hard copy and send it to someone.

This sherd was found on flat land desert country and nowhere near any kind of mound.

 

[GatorBoy]

Well in that case I would lean more towards it not being any kind of a ritualistic burial artifact.
I've found many pot bottoms over the years.. Can't say I've found one with a design on it.
Seems to me if it design was on it it wasn't the bottom of something but more of a pendant or something like that

 

[Jon Stewart]

The sherd I have has a round bottom. Wife said it was shaped just like the 3 or 4 that was in the museum in the town near where I found it and the sign under them described them as I did as the bottom of a burial pots and that the painted designs had something to do with the person buried. She said that all the designs on the ones in the museum were different.

Maybe they were common with the Native Americans in that area?? Much like arrow points are named for the Natives in the area that they are made. An example is the Pandale point I have, which is knapped on a spiral and was done by the Native Americans in and around Pandale, Texas.

I guess another question would be, why would they paint a design on the inside bottom of a bowl or jar.

I was just wondering if anyone else had one and what everyone's thoughts were on them.

Hey, it's cold out and still snowing and its been snowing since last November!!!!

 

[Jon Stewart]

For 73dguard (how mimbres pottery is made) and others about burial or death pots. This gives a little history on mimbres pottery, how it's made and other info on death pots. It did read that the bottoms of death pots were blown out before being place on the head of the person being buried. It did not mention anything about designs.

It does have some good info on mimbres pottery which is what all of mine is.

The site is: ancestrial.com/cultures/north_america/mimbres.

 

[monsterrack]

This is what I know on burial urns. They where made of a low grade clay, of the studies on them I have never seen or heard of the pottery urn being made like everyday pottery. Most burial urns where made for the 2nd burial, just to hold the bones, after the body had decade away in a dirt burial. This is a example of some of the southern burial urnsThere has not been a whole lot of burial urns found, but it is something that the death cults practiced. Some urns are round bottom and some come to a apex on the bottom. Jon the insect you speak of could be a spider, I have seen a six leg spider on a shell gorget that came from the death cult era. What ever you have got, it's got to be cool. Great find

 

[GatorBoy]

Sounds like a Spiro mound gorget.
Sure wish I could see a photo of this.
Something has me thinking it might be a depiction of Kokopelli.

 

[Tnmountains]

I think most killed pots were nut jobs with probes. There is not doubt on large clay burial urns. I have seen them in collections from this area filled with dirt to this day.Very strong. I have not seen what you speak of Jon but every culture and time period is different. What they doing in Ohio is not always what they were doing in say Fla or Tn and visa versus. I have found a plain clay discoidal is all. Can you e-mail the photo?

 

[timekiller]

Here's some of the type I find around here,I've got others put away & can find them kinda common like this the way I hunt.

 

[timekiller]

more...

 

[timekiller]

some more...

 

[timekiller]

By the way I wouldn't know a burial pot from a eaten pot I'm just showing the types I run across here & how they look.Being they are the thickest part of any pot they hold up the longest over time for sure.