Button (die ) Found

[RELICDUDE07]

I went out today for a little hunt and found something very cool..I can see a small date at the bottom 1773 and some inlay around the edge .I think it was for making coins or buttons its solid brass . I know you can not make out the date very well, im going to try and take some more pics.and clean it some how? What is it called so i can look for some online?... Thanks/ relicdude

 

[Skrimpy]

Re: Button or coin die ??

The best immediate suggestion was made, take some silly putty and let's see the impression. I did that for my Rev War Dragoon button and it worked great for seeing detail.

Don

That's a great idea. If your kids have some playdough it might be easier to come by than silly putty.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: Button or coin die ??

I cleaned it some and was able to make out this. But if i take a pic. of it/its not going to show very well ,its very shallow in depth.I think its a english button die to stamp pewter buttons..I did find 60th and 16th reg. buttons all over this site.. Thanks Don ,im going to buy some putty in the morning...

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Button or coin die ??

Well, fairly certain you can change your title of your post to Button die found. I did see examples in my Rev War artifact book of single die's for button, and it does look good for that being what you found, if so, congrats on a nice piece of history, and a great artifact for display.

I still highly recommend buying one of those egg shells with Silly Putty and make the impression and photograph it, you can use the Silly Putty over and over again, and it is great for looking for details on coins and buttons, sometimes better than tracing.

I did not see any 60th buttons with a crown in the book btw. But there is one with the denticles similar to what you drew on your photo.

Don

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: Button or coin die ??

Thank you very much Don for the info.Could you post a pic of the ones in the book? I dont have any rev. war books.. Thank you again..Relicdude

 

[pcolaboy]

Re: Button or coin die ??

Dang Relic....that pile just keeps producing! Might be worth going through that one again with a sifter...I'll bring it!

Pcola

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Re: Button or coin die ??

Yes , its some pile (Maybe a sifter would be good ,i keep missing the gold coins I think this maybe the only die i find in my life time ..But you never know , might be lots more of them ,it could be a british super store :P

 

[Quix Ten]

I do a bit of casting and metalwork, and I'm not sure you have a die there. Normally, a die would be in reverse so that the button itself would read right once it came out of the die. Now, if this was for making hollow buttons, there would be two dies that pressed the thin metal between them. The reversed die would be concave, and the right-reading die would be convex. This makes sense if you think about it, when the button part is domed you want the dome side to read correctly and the cavity side to read reversed.

Does that all make sense?

 

[RELICDUDE07]

It was for solid pewter and lead buttons rev. war style ,The funny thing is where i found it my friend found the same button thats on the die . A few feet away..But he wont let me have it

 

[Quix Ten]

Well if it's for a solid button, the design in the die should definitely be reversed... that's the only way the button could be made.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

It is reverse, sunk down in the mold

 

[topdog]

Really cool find.

 

[downindixie]

Get some clay and make a button!

 

[Quix Ten]

I don't think I was clear... maybe the picture will help illustrate what I'm saying:



The die should be concave AND reversed left-for-right in order for the button to look right if it is a solid button. Press some clay into the cavity... if it comes out looking like a button with the text reading right, then I think you are on the right track with it being a button die. If the text comes out reversed on the clay we all need to put our figuring caps on and see what we can come up with.

None of this is meant to lessen your find, by the way... it's definitely SOMETHING interesting and cool!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I dont think i want to put all that clay on my priceless relic But i have seen what it could make in its day.. I think they used them so much, that over time the die strikes would get weak ,and then they tossed them in the sand.Thats where it layed for 300yrs until i dug it out..Its very shallow / the marks in it , and would not make a very good button now ,like it did in the day 1776 ..Thanks relicdude

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Yes Quix ten,, it is concaved 1/16 of a inch sunk down in the middle round part/ and the marks numbers are sunk down more..Are you talking the numbers would be backwards? maybe it was 90 reg ? I have only found 16th and 60reg. but they found a 100 reg. one time across the bay from me?

 

[Quix Ten]

Yes, I understand that it is concave... my question is whether the text is reversed. The photo you posted above where you outlined the text makes it look like the text is right-facing, which would indicate that this isn't a mold or die in the traditional sense. It could still play some sort of role in the making of buttons, of course, and it might actually be some sort of "matrix" die (essentially a die for making other dies). I'm just trying to figure out exactly how it was supposed to work.

Regarding the clay, let me make a suggestion: Get some Sculpey brand polymer clay. This stuff is really good about not sticking to anything else other than itself, so you shouldn't have to worry about it sticking to your relic when you press it in. Take a BIG hunk of it, much bigger than would fit into the depression, and push it against the cavity. Heck, form the stuff into a handle for yourself and just push the end in. If you want to be extra-careful about the clay not sticking, mist the relic with water first. Sculpey is designed for using in push-molds, which is essentially how you will be using it.

If the impression comes out good, you can bake the clay in your oven at 175 degrees and have a permanent impression.

You can get Sculpey at any art supply store.

 

[Quix Ten]

It could be a 90, but then the crown would be at the bottom.

Man, this is a puzzler. I'm really hoping you get a good impression out of it so we can see what it looks like. I love mysteries like this, and you may have something that is really, really unusual.

 

[Don in SJ]

Yes, I understand that it is concave... my question is whether the text is reversed. The photo you posted above where you outlined the text makes it look like the text is right-facing, which would indicate that this isn't a mold or die in the traditional sense. It could still play some sort of role in the making of buttons, of course, and it might actually be some sort of "matrix" die (essentially a die for making other dies). I'm just trying to figure out exactly how it was supposed to work.

Regarding the clay, let me make a suggestion: Get some Sculpey brand polymer clay. This stuff is really good about not sticking to anything else other than itself, so you shouldn't have to worry about it sticking to your relic when you press it in. Take a BIG hunk of it, much bigger than would fit into the depression, and push it against the cavity. Heck, form the stuff into a handle for yourself and just push the end in. If you want to be extra-careful about the clay not sticking, mist the relic with water first. Sculpey is designed for using in push-molds, which is essentially how you will be using it.

If the impression comes out good, you can bake the clay in your oven at 175 degrees and have a permanent impression.

You can get Sculpey at any art supply store.

All of this is the reason I said get Silly Putty which is available in most quick stop grocery stores, and Dollar stores, and is non-toxic, resuseuable and convenient. I have been using the same Silly Putty container (egg shaped) for many years, don't need to get any fancy clay, and beside, you can play with the silly putty when you are done.

 

[Quix Ten]

Yeah, but you can't bake it and have a permanent record

Also, Silly Putty can sometimes leave an oily residue. I don't think it would hurt the relic, but I've never had Sculpey leave any sort of residue on anything.

Plus, it's great fun to have around.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

I want to know just what it has on it too ..more then you guys ,but im going to have to wait until tommorow . I know its a die ,i can see marks all in it ,but they are shallow like i said,it was used alot,until no good anymore for makeing decent buttons.. and then was just trash to them.. Im going to get some putty and clay in the morning