Calling all Canadians, Europeans, ex-pats overseas, we need your opinions

[Edward1976]

I would like to hear from anyone and everyone who lives or has lived overseas and give us Americans your opinion and facts about healthcare in your nation. As an adult who has spent most of his working career abroad and an American who grew up here, I have seen both sides of the coin. In the media you see a lot of people in politics who like to shout about how horrible Canada is, how everyone in Sweden is a communist and the NHS is secretly plotting to take over the world with their do-goodness and charity. If you're like me, you always have local private health care when living for extended periods overseas (yes, there is private healthcare in most anywhere in the free world, FOX never mentions that however) and never had any problems, however maybe you did, or do, so let the rest of us know what your story or opinion is, because a lot of people may be misinformed, you'd be doing us a service by clarifying things. E1976

 

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[bevo]

In 1998 while living in Belgium my girlfriend had an appendicitis, the impression that I got from the hospital was like walking into a brand new goodwill store.

 

[Edward1976]

Bevo, how so?

 

[Chadeaux]

I would like to hear from anyone and everyone who lives or has lived overseas and give us Americans your opinion and facts about healthcare in your nation. As an adult who has spent most of his working career abroad and an American who grew up here, I have seen both sides of the coin. In the media you see a lot of people in politics who like to shout about how horrible Canada is, how everyone in Sweden is a communist and the NHS is secretly plotting to take over the world with their do-goodness and charity. If you're like me, you always have local private health care when living for extended periods overseas (yes, there is private healthcare in most anywhere in the free world, FOX never mentions that however) and never had any problems, however maybe you did, or do, so let the rest of us know what your story or opinion is, because a lot of people may be misinformed, you'd be doing us a service by clarifying things. E1976

Edward, I like the premise of your question ... but it will be comparing apples to toenail fungus.

The system of healthcare we are about to be subjected to will have little similarity beyond government eventually being the single payer - that is unless lawyers are used in those countries to make the medical decisions as well.

 

[Edward1976]

Chadeaux, what's your plan? Imagine being President, what would you do?

 

[GMD52]

Tort control, and limits on what jury's and judges can award, and control the stupid lawsuits that bog down most systems....then I would get Govt out of the health business, what makes it think it can do a better job, when they can't even pass a Federal Budget. I kow this will raise your ire, but it's my opinion. 17 trillion in debt, and no-one is even addressing that issue, and we are embarking on a ludicrious program that e don't need to subsidize another industry, and have beaurcrats and not professional make the decisions on my healthcare....I pay my own way, choose my Dr. and services, and don't want to have to take care of anyone else.....selfish for sure, and not open for debate, I control my destiny in business, and my care, and don't need someone I've never met, and never will meet be telling me what's good for me....they can't run their own affairs( pun intended), and certainly won't run mine......Great quote from " The Last Of The Mohicans"....." You do what you want with your scalp, and don't be telling me what to do with mine"

 

[Edward1976]

GMD, what would you do if you couldn't pay for a life saying operation for you or your loved ones? This post is not about the Federal Deficit, it's about healthcare, so what would you do? How would you pay for a doctor to save your loved ones (or your) life if you had no health care?

 

[Chadeaux]

First of all, Thanks to GMD52 for his excellent post!!!

GMD, what would you do if you couldn't pay for a life saying operation for you or your loved ones? This post is not about the Federal Deficit, it's about healthcare, so what would you do? How would you pay for a doctor to save your loved ones (or your) life if you had no health care?

For decades, the poor and indigent as well as those who are uninsured or under insured have benefited from Medicaid. Breastcare helps women who cannot afford treatment by supplementing through medicaid. That includes those with insurance, but not enough insurance.

Secondly, the bankruptcy system is there if the bills stack up beyond what you can pay.

Edward, doctors are greedy ... otherwise their prices would not be rising at a much higher rate than any other industry. The only person greedier than a doctor? A tort lawyer.

Now, although doctors are greedy, they will do all they can to save a life ... because it also makes them money. But a lawyer? He will only look to see which side of the balance sheet puts more money in his pocket.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

GMD, what would you do if you couldn't pay for a life saying operation for you or your loved ones? This post is not about the Federal Deficit, it's about healthcare, so what would you do? How would you pay for a doctor to save your loved ones (or your) life if you had no health care?

Edward. all this healthcare debate comes down to one question....how do you ration healthcare? Do you ration it by ability to pay for it. Or, do you allow the government, or rather it's agents, to determine who gets what. Keep in mind that same government has decided IT'S healthcare will be first class, and paid for by others. It has, in effect, put itself outside the system it is forcing everyone else into. Back to the rationing question....we ration everything else on ability to pay...why not healthcare? Also, once we decide that everyone is entitled to healthcare...what do we do about people who ride motorcycles without helmets, or smoke, or drink to excess, or skydive? How do we assess the risks, and apportion the costs fairly?...or do we just outlaw all that risky behavior? Once the taxpayers start paying for other people's healthcare, they have a right to demand safe behavior....right? There is no way to talk about hypothetical needs without also addressing the behavior that may have led to those needs. IMHO, that's why rationing by ability to pay works...because you might behave better if it costs money to do so....or, shortens your life if you have risky habits. Rationing isn't fair, but the other system isn't either. The whole thing comes down to who pays?...and who gets freebies....like all socialist systems. Add to that the fact this country is already broke, and there is no money to pay for this "free" care.
Jim

 

[Edward1976]

I asked a legitimate question, I would prefer a legitimate answer. I know you may hate lawyers and doctors, however, that's not what this is about. Doctors brought you into this world, there are few professions more noble, you'll have to agree.

What would you do if you needed a life-saving operation and had no insurance, my question. Question two, what is health care like in your country? Yes I know about Medicaid, according to wikipedia, "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, passed in 2010, will expand Medicaid eligibility starting in 2014. Under the law as written, states that wished to continue to participate in the Medicaid program would be required to allow people with income up to 133% of the poverty line to qualify for coverage, including adults without dependent children. The federal government would pay 100% of the cost of Medicaid eligibility expansion in 2014, 2015 and 2016; 95% in 2017, 94% in 2018, 93% in 2019, and 90% in 2020 and all subsequent years.[9] Yes, Obamacare will expand Medicaid, thankfully, but do you know how to go about getting it? Is it comparable in other countries?

 

[Chadeaux]

One thing to remember Jim: It isn't even free for the poor.

They will meet something they've never seen before: Copays.

It isn't free health care, it is (for some) free insurance. They will have to pay to see the same doc they've been visiting for free under the present system.

By then though, all the damage will have been done.

That's when the rioting in the streets will start. When the folks who thought they would get free care find out they just got free or subsidized insurance.

Right now, I have Blue Cross ... had two surgeries last year, and I'm still paying for parts of the medical bills. That's insurance. That's what they'll have. They won't be happy!

 

[Edward1976]

Jim, good point, but what if they can't pay? Let them die? You went skydiving, you had an accident, uninsured, you die? What if that person was your daughter or son or mother? I'd really like to hear from other nations also, let's see what they have to say, they may surprise us...

 

[Chadeaux]

I asked a legitimate question, I would prefer a legitimate answer. I know you may hate lawyers and doctors, however, that's not what this is about. Doctors brought you into this world, there are few professions more noble, you'll have to agree.

What would you do if you needed a life-saving operation and had no insurance, my question. Question two, what is health care like in your country? Yes I know about Medicaid, according to wikipedia, "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, passed in 2010, will expand Medicaid eligibility starting in 2014. Under the law as written, states that wished to continue to participate in the Medicaid program would be required to allow people with income up to 133% of the poverty line to qualify for coverage, including adults without dependent children. The federal government would pay 100% of the cost of Medicaid eligibility expansion in 2014, 2015 and 2016; 95% in 2017, 94% in 2018, 93% in 2019, and 90% in 2020 and all subsequent years.[9] Yes, Obamacare will expand Medicaid, thankfully, but do you know how to go about getting it? Is it comparable in other countries?

Sorry, the new health care laws in the U.S. are about lawyers, their power, and their profit.

All the expansion of medicaid will do is pay for the insurance on people who presently don't have it ... the young people who probably don't need insurance but can't afford it and the poor who may or may not need it, but they get it anyhow.

What does this accomplish? Medicaid is expanded yes, but the benefit to those who actually need it will necessarily be reduced.

The money will be going to medical insurance, and not towards actual healthcare. To translate: It will go to the government insurance agencies who are nothing but lawyers, con artists and crooks.

BTW, the doctors are going to get screwed because they will be reduced to near poverty if they remain in the system. The only doctors who will profit under this system are those who leave it for concierge care. You know, caring for the wealthy, politicians and heads of corporate America.

The Doctors who are not good enough to succeed at concierge care will be the ones that the public are stuck with.

 

[Chadeaux]

Jim, good point, but what if they can't pay? Let them die? You went skydiving, you had an accident, uninsured, you die? What if that person was your daughter or son or mother? I'd really like to hear from other nations also, let's see what they have to say, they may surprise us...

Under the old laws, an emergency room of any hospital that accepted any government benefits was forbidden from denying emergency care to any individual.

If you had an accident and were uninsured, you could not be turned away just because you couldn't pay. I know, when I was a kid I flipped a motorcycle at 60+ mph. No insurance. They had to treat me, and when I went back to work I paid the bill.

That WAS the law, not sure that will remain the law in this country.

 

[Edward1976]

Chadeaux, that's been the way it is for many years now, true. What about if you needed surgery though? How to pay?

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Jim, good point, but what if they can't pay? Let them die? You went skydiving, you had an accident, uninsured, you die? What if that person was your daughter or son or mother? I'd really like to hear from other nations also, let's see what they have to say, they may surprise us...

Well...I tried to raise my daughter to understand she was responsible for her actions. The way I look at life is why am I responsible for other people's lives? People I don't know. People who don't care about me either. That's life. And health insurance is a misnomer...it doesn't insure your health...never has. Health insurance is to insure your wealth, and protect it from the ravages of the healthcare system. If you have no net worth, you don't need health insurance. You just go to the emergency room, and throw yourself onto the system, and hope for the best. In many cases the choice of buying health insurance isn't about affording the insurance...it's about what other things people would have to give up in order to afford the insurance. People hate that. I know a few people who could easily afford health insurance, but it would mean giving up the yearly pass at the golf course, or the new camp trailer in the driveway, etc. What is happening in the United States is that people want others to pay for everything. The deeper that socialism gets embedded, the fewer people who will work to support it. Humans aren't stupid...they will not work hard to support people who don't. It's been tried, over and over in human history, and it has never lasted more than 50 or 60 years, anywhere. Universal healthcare isn't working either. So far, Canada's is doing OK, but with much longer waits for care, and less high-tech care. Britain is a disaster. They're broke, and getting broker, and they let people die, too. There's a limit to what they will spend to keep you alive. A damned low limit. We will eventually be the same....the lack of money will force the system to set a limit on care...once you hit the limit, and you still need care...you die. Why do you think they are talking about a "control" group to oversee the care? They will decide who gets care and who doesn't. Just like the IRS scandal....if you're politically connected, you'll be treated better than if you are considered "expendable", or politically incorrect, or of the wrong affiliation...that's how all governments operate. And, eventually, they will start setting limits on your behavior, if you want government care.....don't doubt it.
On the skydiving...why in hell would you do that with no insurance? Ever hear of "free choice"? People should be forced to face the consequence of their bad decisions...that's how you teach people to make good decisions. It ain't rocket science. When people are freed of the consequence of their decisions, they keep making the same poor choices, over and over. And, if that aforementioned skydiver isn't responsible for that choice, why in the heck should I be responsible for it? I'd like to see the logical answer to THAT question.
Jim

 

[Jim in Idaho]

One thing to remember Jim: It isn't even free for the poor.

They will meet something they've never seen before: Copays.

It isn't free health care, it is (for some) free insurance. They will have to pay to see the same doc they've been visiting for free under the present system.

By then though, all the damage will have been done.

That's when the rioting in the streets will start. When the folks who thought they would get free care find out they just got free or subsidized insurance.

Right now, I have Blue Cross ... had two surgeries last year, and I'm still paying for parts of the medical bills. That's insurance. That's what they'll have. They won't be happy!

Yup...but it will be much cheaper for them, than what I pay. I pay about $7,500/year to be added to my wife's insurance. Even with that, my deductable is $1,500/year, and I pay 20% of everything. And, since I'm a productive member of society, my fed taxes help pay for other people's healthcare. So, I pay for myself, and also pay for others. And, you're probably right... they won't be happy...LOL...Mainly because Obama has been telling all of them how fun it will be to have "free" healthcare.
Jim

 

[Susanska]

Oh here's a good one... I am very opinionated about this. I was born and raised in Canada, so this will pull from that experience (OHIP)

I remember most- anytime someone sneezed (or anything minor to major), we went to the doctor. This, in turn, caused a back log of visits until it became a month long wait for an appointment. As of a few years ago, my uncle passed from waiting months for a visit ....

The tax rates were 15% which was allotted to provincial and governmental taxes. This raised prices of food and other commodities.

The doctors eventually figured out that the government was not paying for the visits and stuff as would normally have happened. With mounting pressures of school loans and all the hard work to obtain a PhD., they pack up and leave. They look for somewhere to practice and make enough to maintain a healthy lifestyle.

So, what happened after this? My uncle needed a surgery desperately, but needing his check up appointment for a few issues he was having.... waited too long.

Looking at prices of necessities, how do you make up for the excessive pricing in order to foot the OHIP bill? You receive welfare and other types of governmental help. How do we pay for this added opportunity cost? Prices increase again.

Vicious circle for sure..... SMH....

 

[Edward1976]

Well, we'll see what happens. Let's see what others have to say.

 

[Edward1976]

Interesting Susan, how would you change it?