Can you remove things from a river in Texas ?

[Txbottledigger]

I live in Texas, I would like to remove two large railroad pieces out of my local river where a railroad bridge once stood. This is on public property and state property, a navigable river. One piece is what I believe to be the roof of the cab of a steam locomotive and the other, a part of the old bridge. Of course, this isn’t the same as picking up a bottle and taking it. The process of removing these pieces and loading them, could possibly cause attention. I would like to be prepared to ensure whom may ask to what of which I am doing, that this is legally acceptable.



Looks to me like it’s okay.

 

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[MidMoTreasure]

By "public" do you mean state/county land or Federal land? If Federal land, then no. You would be prohibited under the Antiquities Act. See 54 U.S.C. ? 320301–320303 and a whole host of Federal regulations.

If State, then consult your local laws and regulations regarding historic items on public land. Here in my home state (MO), it would be prohibited. You can't even surface hunt for artifacts on state land here in MO.

 

[Txbottledigger]

A navigable river in Texas is state lands.

 

[crashbandicoot]

I,d just flat out ask who ever has authority over that land.that way you should get a yes or no.

 

[MidMoTreasure]

A navigable river in Texas is state lands.

I believe that is the law in all of the states. However, being a navigable waterway only allows you to travel upon and to fish from the water. Any items belonging on the bed or underneath of it belong to the land owner. If the landowner that abuts your waterway is a private person or entity, just ask their permission. If it is the federal government, then you are prohibited by law from removing the railroad items. If it is owned by the state, then you are probably prohibited from removing the items.

 

[T.C.]

Here in Orygun, highwater mark and river bottom is state land. I would think the state would be thrilled if you salvaged some junk out of the river for them.

 

[Coonhound]

I don't know how it is in Texas, but here in New Mexico and in CA, the Army Corps of Engineers has regulatory authority over rivers.

 

[crashbandicoot]

It varies a lot from state to state and body of water too.On the lower Arkansas within the Navigation Pool Corps is the main man.Below the last dam on the Pool is kind of a mish mash of laws and regs.That,s why I said do the research and ask,I,m not a big ask permission guy but when possibly dealing with a Government entity it,s always best to find out.

 

[Garscale]

This is Texas and the state owns the river bed, however abandoned equipment in the public water falls under the salvage laws and mist likely can be legally salvaged.

 

[augoldminer]

Can they present a hazard to navigation to boats at low water levels
if yes ask the state agency for permision to remove a hazard

 

[fyrffytr1]

I am just curious. Why do you want to remove them?

 

[crashbandicoot]

Inquiring minds always want to know!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I,d just flat out ask who ever has authority over that land.that way you should get a yes or no.

And then become the latest victim of "No one cared UNTIL you asked" ? 🤔

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I live in Texas, I would like to remove two large railroad pieces out of my local river where a railroad bridge once stood. This is on public property and state property, a navigable river. One piece is what I believe to be the roof of the cab of a steam locomotive and the other, a part of the old bridge. Of course, this isn’t the same as picking up a bottle and taking it. The process of removing these pieces and loading them, could possibly cause attention. I would like to be prepared to ensure whom may ask to what of which I am doing, that this is legally acceptable.
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Looks to me like it’s okay.

Tx-bottledigger : The stuff you are citing is federal. Not state. And no : federal does not automatically subrogate downwards to state, county, and city. Unless done so by specific inclusion, or unless the lower entities have laws/rules of their own.

But dude, let's just cut to the chase : There's not a single park or river or forest or desert or beach of ANY entity (city, state, county, state, or federal) that won't have some sort of verbiage about "remove" and "harvest" and "collect" . Thus , if you want to fret yourself silly about boiler plate fine-print, you can probably just give up md'ing on every speck of public land everywhere.

So at a certain point, you have to be realistic. The laws you are fretting about are meant to protect obvious historic sensitive monuments. Right ? Ok, then as long as it's not a historic sensitive monument, then so-be-it. And same for the laws that forbid harvest/remove/collect : Those are so that no numbskull thinks he can take home the park benches, commercially harvest the sod or sand, etc.... Was it ever meant to apply to fumble fingers coins and pulltabs and metal junk in rivers ? Of course not.

So go get that offensive manmade litterbug pollution trash out of the river !

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Tx-bottledigger : The stuff you are citing is federal. Not state. And no : federal does not automatically subrogate downwards to state, county, and city. Unless done so by specific inclusion, or unless the lower entities have laws/rules of their own.

But dude, let's just cut to the chase : There's not a single park or river or forest or desert or beach of ANY entity (city, state, county, state, or federal) that won't have some sort of verbiage about "remove" and "harvest" and "collect" . Thus , if you want to fret yourself silly about boiler plate fine-print, you can probably just give up md'ing on every speck of public land everywhere.

So at a certain point, you have to be realistic. The laws you are fretting about are meant to protect obvious historic sensitive monuments. Right ? Ok, then as long as it's not a historic sensitive monument, then so-be-it. And same for the laws that forbid harvest/remove/collect : Those are so that no numbskull thinks he can take home the park benches, commercially harvest the sod or sand, etc.... Was it ever meant to apply to fumble fingers coins and pulltabs and metal junk in rivers ? Of course not.

So go get that offensive manmade litterbug pollution trash out of the river !

Jeeze they left the door open while moving things around and look who walked in! ; )

 

[russau]

Like MidMo says about the laws is correct. The Missouri Department of Resources stated in the news paper some years back that in the Winter months when the river levels drop and the shallow edges of the rivers are exposed and items/relics/ and fossils are exposed shall NOT be picked up but reported the them for documentation. OR you can be arrested and or fined heavily ! And in these times the Mo. DNR is out there watching for violations !

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Like MidMo says about the laws is correct. The Missouri Department of Resources stated in the news paper some years back that in the Winter months when the river levels drop and the shallow edges of the rivers are exposed and items/relics/ and fossils are exposed shall NOT be picked up but reported the them for documentation. OR you can be arrested and or fined heavily ! And in these times the Mo. DNR is out there watching for violations !

russau is correct, Tom, do not encourage members to break the laws.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

test test

 

[crashbandicoot]

And then become the latest victim of "No one cared UNTIL you asked" ? 🤔

No one on this site hates the profusion of arbitrary and capricious laws made by people with nothing better to do than me,no one.That said,I don,t want to end up in some court facing an asshat judge who wishes he was somewhere else and I,m the reason he,s not.Govt,has battalions of lawyers and unlimited time and money to jack you around.If you don,t know,find out.Save yourself a load of trouble.I don,t go around begging permission for every public facility I want to enter,if there,s no sign saying keep out,I consider it open.This man,s question involves something much more than that so my reply.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No one on this site hates the profusion of arbitrary and capricious laws made by people with nothing better to do than me,no one.That said,I don,t want to end up in some court facing an asshat judge who wishes he was somewhere else and I,m the reason he,s not.Govt,has battalions of lawyers and unlimited time and money to jack you around.If you don,t know,find out.Save yourself a load of trouble.I don,t go around begging permission for every public facility I want to enter,if there,s no sign saying keep out,I consider it open.This man,s question involves something much more than that so my reply.

crash-bandicoot, glad we agree that this entire thing is often-time capricious , whimsical, and often-time the result of "md'rs swatting hornet's nests" fetching "safe answers" to their "pressing questions".

However, if someone is afraid of a "load of trouble" and "courts", for supposed possible breaking of laws, then : Why can't that md'r look up laws for himself ? Why does he need to go in asking anyone "Can I ?" (risking the scenario that we both agree exists) ?

In this digital day & age that we live in, there's probably not a single city or county that doesn't have their municipal codes, park rules, etc... on-line for public viewing. Eg.: Dogs on leash, no firework, closes at sunset, etc.... Why can't an md'r look up potential laws/rules for himself ? What can be more law-abiding than that ?

And if a person isn't handy with the internet (or perhaps some podunk teensy town or county isn't digitized), then : They can ask the clerk : "Where can citizens find the laws/rules pertaining to this city, in print form ?". And you would be directed to where it exists in binder form somewhere (behind the desk, or at the library, etc...). In other words: No laws are "secret". And if it doesn't say "No md'ing" , nor have mention of "permits" , then presto: Not disallowed and no permits. Right ?

They have to exist somewhere in print form. Hence no need to risk the "no one cared till you asked" scenario .