Can you tell me anything about these 2 muzzleloaders?

[jcono]

They are being sold at a local auction. Described as "1840s to 1880s percussion cap musket", the one with the fancier scrolled trigger guard and brass heart inlay is 43" overall, 29" barrel. 44 or 45 cal.

The other one is described as 56" overall, 36" barrel, 45 cal.

Just curious if they would be worth picking up. I am very drawn to these old pieces, but I would like to know more about them. Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

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[godisnum1]

They are being sold at a local auction. Described as "1840s to 1880s percussion cap musket", the one with the fancier scrolled trigger guard and brass heart inlay is 43" overall, 29" barrel. 44 or 45 cal.

The other one is described as 56" overall, 36" barrel, 45 cal.

Just curious if they would be worth picking up. I am very drawn to these old pieces, but I would like to know more about them. Thanks for any help you can provide!

I know nothing about them... but they're beautiful piecesand I'd certainly buy something like that if I had the money to do so.

Bran <><

 

[releventchair]

i'd sure like more provenance....
Trigger guards have modern counterparts. As do butt plates. And at least one of the nose caps. That's not bad. But not rare or custom build stuff.
A builder can shape a tang/tail on a trigger guard to leave a sign of their style , or "school" of geography. Factory pieces get rubber stamped so to speak.
Note the one trigger guard is not inlayed , but flush mounted.

Neither have set triggers (two triggers.) That hints of utilitarian and low budget origins.
I don't recognize either lock. No big deal. Unless one or both are rare.
One barrel is missing front sight I believe.
One hammer is missing it's screw , and other screws look loose.

The one rifles wood does not match front and rear (my opinion , I'm not great with pictures) as if it was repaired.

There is a brand called Traditions that built a similar model to the half stock rifle pictured. Not saying it is the case, but multiple parts may have been added.
Not a crime. Keeping a rifle functional is cheaper than replacing it. (A time honored tradition in itself.)

Unless a maker is known , or a parts provenance , or association with a previous owner can be proven , I would not bid very high.

Lock , stock , and barrel is the sum of a rifles value. Yes , there's more. But how much moneywise?

The brass inlay behind the lock screws on the left of the one rifle hints of a "liberty cap"/hat. A creative version if it is....But usually associated with a much earlier era. Which the two rifles don't seem to fit.

The carving is not that of a practiced craftsman. Please , no offence is meant to whoever did it.

Wallhangers. But till proven valuable beyond cosmetics ...I'd be reluctant to pay more than for a modern reproduction is usable shape. Which , depending on source won't be very much compared to an old known makers work.

Being old rifles. They sure are neat to look at.

Markings on barrels? Or on lock plates? No markings raises an eyebrow. They could help sort out some origin. Maybe.

 

[jcono]

Wow, thank you for such a thorough rundown of these rifles! I really appreciate it.
Wish I could get better pictures or more info on them, but I can't.
If I end up buying one or both, I ill report back. Honestly, I will probably pass on them.
Thanks again!

i'd sure like more provenance....
Trigger guards have modern counterparts. As do butt plates. And at least one of the nose caps. That's not bad. But not rare or custom build stuff.
A builder can shape a tang/tail on a trigger guard to leave a sign of their style , or "school" of geography. Factory pieces get rubber stamped so to speak.
Note the one trigger guard is not inlayed , but flush mounted.

Neither have set triggers (two triggers.) That hints of utilitarian and low budget origins.
I don't recognize either lock. No big deal. Unless one or both are rare.
One barrel is missing front sight I believe.
One hammer is missing it's screw , and other screws look loose.

The one rifles wood does not match front and rear (my opinion , I'm not great with pictures) as if it was repaired.

There is a brand called Traditions that built a similar model to the half stock rifle pictured. Not saying it is the case, but multiple parts may have been added.
Not a crime. Keeping a rifle functional is cheaper than replacing it. (A time honored tradition in itself.)

Unless a maker is known , or a parts provenance , or association with a previous owner can be proven , I would not bid very high.

Lock , stock , and barrel is the sum of a rifles value. Yes , there's more. But how much moneywise?

The brass inlay behind the lock screws on the left of the one rifle hints of a "liberty cap"/hat. A creative version if it is....But usually associated with a much earlier era. Which the two rifles don't seem to fit.

The carving is not that of a practiced craftsman. Please , no offence is meant to whoever did it.

Wallhangers. But till proven valuable beyond cosmetics ...I'd be reluctant to pay more than for a modern reproduction is usable shape. Which , depending on source won't be very much compared to an old known makers work.

Being old rifles. They sure are neat to look at.

Markings on barrels? Or on lock plates? No markings raises an eyebrow. They could help sort out some origin. Maybe.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Wow, thank you for such a thorough rundown of these rifles! I really appreciate it.
Wish I could get better pictures or more info on them, but I can't.
If I end up buying one or both, I ill report back. Honestly, I will probably pass on them.
Thanks again!

Here's a good site with a ton of information and knowledgeable people on long guns.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php

 

[jcono]

I passed on these. One sold for 500 and the other for 600... too much for me.

 

[Retired Sarge]

I passed on these. One sold for 500 and the other for 600... too much for me.

Hard to know when to pull the trigger......Unless you know more about them it's a hard call. Join some gun sites and learn about the weapons that interest you, that way you'll have the knowledge when you do find one you can't pass up.

Since the auction is over, find out what you can on these rifles, you never know they might have sold for less than they are worth.

 

[jcono]

Good advice, thanks.

Hard to know when to pull the trigger......Unless you know more about them it's a hard call. Join some gun sites and learn about the weapons that interest you, that way you'll have the knowledge when you do find one you can't pass up.

Since the auction is over, find out what you can on these rifles, you never know they might have sold for less than they are worth.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Good advice, thanks.

Also visit gun shows, gun shops, pawn shops etc or any other place that sells used or military surplus guns. You can usually find awesome deals at them. Gun shops and pawn shops will usually do layaway plans.

Can also check out gunbroker, guns America, and other gun auction sites there are deals to be had there also and some sellers do layaway plans.