Captain Thomas Beale Sr.

[ECS]

... "Jackson, Coles, Clay, Witcher, and Chief Justice Marshal...."

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson may refer to Andrew Jackson or to CSA Gen Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who from wounds, passed away in Lynchburg during the "2nd Year of the Confederate War".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson may refer to Andrew Jackson or to CSA Gen Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who from wounds, passed away in Lynchburg during the "2nd Year of the Confederate War".

PROBABLY Andy Jackson from the Battle of New Orleans; fits "Time-period". COULD be Gen. Thom. Jackson (CSA) based on his 1863 death; 2nd Year of CW... 1861-1865.

 

[bigscoop]

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson may refer to Andrew Jackson or to CSA Gen Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson who from wounds, passed away in Lynchburg during the "2nd Year of the Confederate War".

Could be right, could be wrong.

 

[bigscoop]

Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall.


Why not;
Rev Clay, Col Coles, Capt/Major Witcher, Gen Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall? Or, why not just Marshall? Why not readily recognizable identities for all of these individuals instead of just Marshall, as the author elected to do?


In the Laffite Memoirs we see this same thing, Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, as example.



In both books the authors have no problem fully identifying certain individuals, and yet in both books the authors refrain from doing so at times.


As would be natural, when you identified your list of referenced individuals you were consistent and clear in your presentation.



Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson......


Why wasn't the Beale Pamphlet author?


Perhaps, sometimes, the right answers can only be found when curiosity allows us to ask the right questions. Perhaps, sometimes, an obvious can be presented so obviously it can blow right past us.

 

[ECS]

Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall.

Why not;
Rev Clay, Col Coles, Capt/Major Witcher, Gen Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall? Or, why not just Marshall? Why not readily recognizable identities for all of these individuals instead of just Marshall, as the author elected to do?

In the Laffite Memoirs we see this same thing, Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, as example.

In both books the authors have no problem fully identifying certain individuals, and yet in both books the authors refrain from doing so at times.
As would be natural, when you identified your list of referenced individuals you were consistent and clear in your presentation.

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson......
Why wasn't the Beale Pamphlet author?
Perhaps, sometimes, the right answers can only be found when curiosity allows us to ask the right questions. Perhaps, sometimes, an obvious can be presented so obviously it can blow right past us.

From the 1885 Beale Papers:
"Among his guests and devoted personal friends, Jackson, Clay, Coles, Witcher, Chief Justice Marshall, and a host of others scarcely less distinguished, might be enumerated".
Those names would have been known by the residents of 1885 Lynchburg and Bedford county, the only market where the job pamphlet was placed for sale. Include the name Max Guggenheimer into the story ( copies of the Beale Papers were sold at Guggenheimer & Co), and it provides an aura of credibility to the buyer.
The same can be said of Laflin's Lafitte memoirs- the names would be known to potential buyers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

From the 1885 Beale Papers:
"Among his guests and devoted personal friends, Jackson, Clay, Coles, Witcher, Chief Justice Marshall, and a host of others scarcely less distinguished, might be enumerated".
Those names would have been known by the residents of 1885 Lynchburg and Bedford county, the only market where the job pamphlet was placed for sale. Include the name Max Guggenheimer into the story ( copies of the Beale Papers were sold at Guggenheimer & Co), and it provides an aura of credibility to the buyer.
The same can be said of Laflin's Lafitte memoirs- the names would be known to potential buyers.

Laflin's LM came out in the late 1940's...

 

[bigscoop]

From the 1885 Beale Papers:
"Among his guests and devoted personal friends, Jackson, Clay, Coles, Witcher, Chief Justice Marshall, and a host of others scarcely less distinguished, might be enumerated".
Those names would have been known by the residents of 1885 Lynchburg and Bedford county, the only market where the job pamphlet was placed for sale. Include the name Max Guggenheimer into the story ( copies of the Beale Papers were sold at Guggenheimer & Co), and it provides an aura of credibility to the buyer.
The same can be said of Laflin's Lafitte memoirs- the names would be known to potential buyers.

Then why not just, Marshall? Of the five names offered only one includes title. Was this done, then, because the residents wouldn't have clearly "distinguished" Marshall otherwise? Your author suggest that all five names are distinguished, and yet he himself proceeds to place further "distinguish" on only just one. Are you sure the author didn't just blow one right past you?

You may be right, you may be wrong.

Answers are a result of the questions we ask. Questions are a result of curiosities. Is it wise to limit our curiosities in such a way? In just the last few post I have offered you two completely new curiosities to consider, one involving the pamphlet's use of the selected DOI, and the other involving added distinction when the author himself has clearly suggested that it wasn't necessary. Hmmmmm....

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall.


Why not;
Rev Clay, Col Coles, Capt/Major Witcher, Gen Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall? Or, why not just Marshall? Why not readily recognizable identities for all of these individuals instead of just Marshall, as the author elected to do?


In the Laffite Memoirs we see this same thing, Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, as example.



In both books the authors have no problem fully identifying certain individuals, and yet in both books the authors refrain from doing so at times.


As would be natural, when you identified your list of referenced individuals you were consistent and clear in your presentation.



Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)
Chief Justice John Marshall (9/24/1755 - 7/6/1835)
The Jackson......


Why wasn't the Beale Pamphlet author?


Perhaps, sometimes, the right answers can only be found when curiosity allows us to ask the right questions. Perhaps, sometimes, an obvious can be presented so obviously it can blow right past us.

"Campbell" from Lafitte Memoirs...? Wouldn't know... Campbell's NOT in Beale PAPERS.

 

[bigscoop]

"Campbell" from Lafitte Memoirs...? Wouldn't know... Campbell's NOT in Beale PAPERS.

Well, that's exactly the point, as neither are;

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)

This all being left to complete reader speculation and blind assumption, whereas, "Chief Justice Marshall" was not. No chance of mistaking who, exactly, is being referenced here.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

PROBABLY Andy Jackson from the Battle of New Orleans; fits "Time-period". COULD be Gen. Thom. Jackson (CSA) based on his 1863 death; 2nd Year of CW... 1861-1865.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

View attachment 1213425

Amusing what you can find in a newspaper.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

View attachment 1213481


Amusing what you can find in a newspaper.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

View attachment 1213491

How much of our research on topics comes from documentation that can be Pure Fiction!

 

[ECS]

Then why not just, Marshall? Of the five names offered only one includes title. Was this done, then, because the residents wouldn't have clearly "distinguished" Marshall otherwise? Your author suggest that all five names are distinguished, and yet he himself proceeds to place further "distinguish" on only just one...

This list appeared in the section describing the honesty and integrity of Robert Morriss, and "devoted friend" Chief Justice Marshall was placed at the end of that list as a suggestive affirmation of Morriss's honesty and integrity.

 

[ECS]

...

Rev Charles Green Clay (12/24/1745 - 7/6/1820)
Col Issac Coles (3/2/1747 - 6/3/1813)
Capt/ Major William Witcher (1739 - 1803)

This all being left to complete reader speculation and blind assumption, whereas, "Chief Justice Marshall" was not...

In 1885 Lynchburg, the above three names would have been known.
Also a Witcher descendent, CSA Lt Col Vincent A Witcher , led the CSA 34th "WITCHER's BATTALION" Virginia Cavalry, formed in Lynchburg.

 

[bigscoop]

This list appeared in the section describing the honesty and integrity of Robert Morriss, and "devoted friend" Chief Justice Marshall was placed at the end of that list as a suggestive affirmation of Morriss's honesty and integrity.

...."A lot" of speculation going on. But, you may be right, or, you may be wrong. "Marshall, Chief Justice Marshall." Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson....so now you're suggesting Chief Justice Marshall was more honest and a more devoted friend then these others? Clearly there is more emphasis being placed on Marshall.......why?

PS: William Witcher was dead in 1803. Only the other four were still alive during the effected period. So are you certain that you have the right Witcher? William Witcher's will is online, he had several sons. "Distinguished names." So perhaps the it could have been written, Clays, Coles, Witchers, Jacksons,....and then to identify just a singular......."Chief Justice Marshall." But, you may be right, you may be wrong.

 

[bigscoop]

In 1885 Lynchburg, the above three names would have been known.
Also a Witcher descendent, CSA Lt Col Vincent A Witcher , led the CSA 34th "WITCHER's BATTALION" Virginia Cavalry, formed in Lynchburg.

And Marshall would not have been known without the addition of title? And you left out Jackson.....

Clay Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and "Chief Justice" Marshall.

 

[ECS]

... Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson....so now you're suggesting Chief Justice Marshall was more honest and a more devoted friend then these others? Clearly there is more emphasis being placed on Marshall.......why?

PS: William Witcher was dead in 1803. Only the other four were still alive during the effected period. So are you certain that you have the right Witcher?...

I discussed the emphasis on Marshall on a previous post.
The Beale Papers mention Witcher as "among his guests and devoted friends"
Now if you want speculation, add Guggenheimer to Jackson and Witcher, and you have three names mentioned in the Beale Papers with Lynchburg connection that served in the CSA during the "Confederate War".

 

[bigscoop]

Now if you want speculation, add Guggenheimer to Jackson and Witcher, and you have three names mentioned in the Beale Papers with Lynchburg connection that served in the CSA during the "Confederate War".

But, not your Witcher, as he was dead long before the Civil War, so enter a different Witcher, yes? In summary, I think you're providing more then enough speculation and uncertainty in regards to just these names already. Clay, Coles, Jackson, Witcher, and "Chief Justice" Marshall. Only one bears title of further and unquestionable distinction, the four other distinguished names do not.

 

[ECS]

I mentioned both Witchers-do you actually read my posts before you respond?