Cartridge ID Help

[AU24K]

These are some cartridges I've found.
The first pair is of a live round. It is 1 1/4" tall.
The second pair is also live, but appears to be a blank. It is 2 5/8" tall.
The third pair is spent. It is 5/8" tall
The fourth pair is also spent. It is 1 1/2" tall.

Thanks in advance.

Best,
Scott

PS. Do any of y'all collect these kind of things?

 

[AU24K]

Here are some M16 blanks.

I think M-16 are .223 caliber...
Are 5.56mm the same thing?

Scott

 

[Sky Pilot]

Scott, SkyPilot here.

Been awhile since I spoke with you, my friend!
In answer to your question:
No not exactly alike for there are several differences, but usually the .223 can be fired in a weapon chambered for 5.56, although I personally would be very cautious
about using them the other way around. (5.56 in a weapon chambered for .223, however lots of folks do this)
The 5.56 is a "beefier" style of the .223 caliber, having a thicker brass cartridge and longer "lead" (pronounced leed, I may have misspelled it! LOL!)) or space between the cartridge's opening and where the projectile seats against the rifling, and able to withstand about 7,000 more p.s.i. of pressure.
As for the difference in designation:
The NATO (North Atlantic Treaty Organization, for anyone not aware, is basically an agreement of allied forces to standardize nomenclature) designation of the 5.56 is in millimeters, while the .223 "caliber" is in inches.

Hope this help!!

Regards all, SkyPilot

 

[Monty]

I ain't arguing, after looking closer I have to agree it is a blank. When I was in the Air Force we were the first to have the M16, even before the Army or Marine Corps. The M16 blank cartridge does have a crimped mouth, probably because it has such a short neck. I have never really seen a 7.62 blank except in pictures and I just forgot. But the picture wasn't that great and I was debating with myself if it had a bullet or not. Most people don't know it but the commercial .223 and .308 are actually not the same cartridge as the military version. They vary ever so slightly in dimensions. This is because the military version was designed to be able to fire in a full auto weapon whereas the .308, and .223 are for bolt action rifles mainly. Get a little grit in the military full auto chamber and the commercial rounds won't feed properly. There are some semiauto commercial rifles but anyone who reloads knows they must use small base reloading dies or dies cut to military specs to assure all the reloads will chamber. That's a simplified version of the explanation because there are some variables that would take all day to explain. Monty

 

[AU24K]

Way back in the 70's there was no NATO agreement so I never used the mm measurements.
I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers when it comes to ammo and/or guns.

Best,
Scott

 

[Hawkeye P]

IMO the .455 Webley is definitely a keeper. If it's the older, blackpowder round, as it appears to be, then it's pre-1900. Don't see too many Webley's around these days; especially not that old.

 

[Old Town]

The Webley round is not blackpowder but the later smokeless variety. See the copper jacket? They only used jackets on smokeless rounds. All the earlier BP rounds used lead bullets.

The Lake City .308 is most certainly a blank. The longer piece that steps down from the neck is suppose to imitate the bullet so to facilitate loading in auto rifles. It has a hole in the end and uses a cardboard wad to hold the charge in. The smaller .223 does use a simple crimp.

I own many rifles including a Garand in .30-06, an M-14 in 7.62 (.308) and even two Webley Mark IV revolvers. The Webs are break-tops. I also have an early S&W N-frame in .455 Webley.

Monty is correct as to military vs. commercial specs on the .308 and .223. I reload everything I own and have many die sets for all the different calibers. When reloading for the military rifles you must full resize the case to minimum specs to assure chambering. The military rifles can have trouble with some commercial loads due to tighter neck dimensions. This is not always the case but can be. Most guns will fire both versions with no trouble. Some will jam badly. You have to test.

I believe I can see 43 on the base of the Webley revolver round. This is a WW2 war round of 1943. Copper jacket, smokeless powder.

Old Town

 

[Sky Pilot]

Way back in the 70's there was no NATO agreement so I never used the mm measurements.
I'm as dumb as a bag of hammers when it comes to ammo and/or guns.

Best,
Scott

I must be also, AU24K.

Sky Pilot