Check out this letter to a liberal professor!

[jerseyben]

Lets start a pool on how many libs come in here to defend the sickos.

Ah, and there it is. Thanks for the insightful post, right on cue.

 

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[dieselram94]

WHAT does one have to do with the other?

Granted, I watched her performance and also found it to be distasteful. But to somehow imply that people like her exist because of teachers and professors is just rediculous and quite frankly, a bit unfair. I am getting tired of the judgement that you guys constantly pass around with broad generalizations (ie. against teachers, professors, liberals, etc).

Coily, is referring to the general degrading of morality by authority figures in kids lives...

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[dieselram94]

A little harsh, but...

As a teacher, I think you have a right to defend your profession.

The others in this thread are treating teachers like they are the enemy and that they do nothing but promote evil.

Dont like what austin said? Then dont put him on the defensive! Dont dish it if you cant take it.

Jersey, he has a right to defend his profession but it is out of line and disrespectful to question if the rest of us made it past 8th grade. Looks to me like he is the one starting to dish out personal insults...

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[jerseyben]

Jersey, he has a right to defend his profession but it is out of line and disrespectful to question if the rest of us made it past 8th grade. Looks to me like he is the one starting to dish out personal insults...

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100% agreed. It is never acceptable to personally insult anyone, no matter how much you disagree with their position. Personal insults aside, my comments stand regarding what he posted. Please do not be so quick to place all of the blame on the "liberal professors", as the overarching problems and issues being discussed here go way beyond placing the blame on all teachers/professors/educators.

As a group, educators are demonized and vilified in the media on a regular basis. This is one argument where my viewpoints will not be swayed and I will stand like a rock to defend them. It is unacceptable that educators are treated this way and I believe something has got to change; namely the public attitude towards these people.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hey, you want it(the system) changed? Pressure the legislature of your state to do so. Tenure is a much abused device in the university system. Done to ensure academic freedom, but judging from the letter it has gotten out of hand. But liberalism can easily be replaced by book burning heathens that long for the good old days that never existed and preach hate and mistrust of anything they don't agree with. Oh well, since I retired and then came back and don't have tenure anymore, I guess I might do middle of the road this semester in my classes. I do have a question though. Other than GMD52, did any of you guys go past 8th grade? As for all that disgusting crap that was done at seminars at those colleges, I'm guessing that most of those students showed up of their own free will. Those would be someone's sons and daughters who maybe were not raised as well as one would hope. Now, who do we blame? Me, you, them, maybe everyone?

Austin no one named you, article gave some pretty out there examples....

Not much we can do via legislature, what do we do, tell them don't hire liberal teachers, fire teachers that teach according to their political beliefs?

You have teachers now teaching that the 911 terrorists were freedom fighters, that we don't need 2nd amendment, forcing kids to observe Muslim traditions, using methods that it doesn't matter that the student got the wrong answer as long as he can explain his method, teaching students everything but what they are suppose to learn...

With that said all please end the insults... You can not question someone's education as an insult either....

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[jerseyben]

Austin no one named you, article gave some pretty out there examples....

Not much we can do via legislature, what do we do, tell them don't hire liberal teachers, fire teachers that according to their political beliefs?

You have teachers now teaching that the 911 terrorists were freedom fighters, that we don't need 2nd amendment, forcing kids to observe Muslim traditions, using methods that it doesn't matter that the student got the wrong answer as long as he can explain his method, teaching students everything but what they are suppose to learn...

With that said all please end the insults... You can not question someone's education as an insult either....

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TH,

Proof of the 911 freedom fighters comment? Proof of forcing kids to observe muslim traditions?

Regarding a kid being right if he explains his method: As far as I know it has been like that for a while. Sometimes, the "right answer" is meaningless if the kid reached it via memorization. If a kid gets the right answerr but doesnt understand the application of the process, then he basically got it wrong because there is no lesson learned - just repeating a memorized idea. If a kid reaches the wrong answer but the method used was understood, possibly just incorrectly applied, then the potential for the kid to understand and complex problems is certainly there.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

excuse me...but the letter was FROM a professor to someone named Edward....
reading is a lost art.

"Dear Edward:

I want to take the time to thank you for writing and telling me that I should be fired from my position as a tenured professor because I am “the biggest embarrassment to higher education in America.”"

Read more at An Embarrassment to Higher Education - Clash Daily

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH,

Proof of the 911 freedom fighters comment? Proof of forcing kids to observe muslim traditions?

Regarding a kid being right if he explains his method: As far as I know it has been like that for a while. Sometimes, the "right answer" is meaningless if the kid reached it via memorization. If a kid gets the right answerr but doesnt understand the application of the process, then he basically got it wrong because there is no lesson learned - just repeating a memorized idea. If a kid reaches the wrong answer but the method used was understood, possibly just incorrectly applied, then the potential for the kid to understand and complex problems is certainly there.

Ben use Google you can find it...

We are suppose to teach our kids how to find the right answer not the wrong answer. If they got the wrong answers they missed the questions and should be graded as such.

In the real world they don't pay you to get the wrong answers and can care less if you understood your process.

The kids are being taught correct answer isn't as important as the process... I sure as heck don't want to fly on planes designed and built under this

Do you think that is the teaching method in Japan..

It is no wonder we have lost our position in education compared to other countries ...

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[dieselram94]

excuse me...but the letter was FROM a professor to someone named Edward....
reading is a lost art.

"Dear Edward:

I want to take the time to thank you for writing and telling me that I should be fired from my position as a tenured professor because I am “the biggest embarrassment to higher education in America.”"

Read more at An Embarrassment to Higher Education - Clash Daily

Edward is another professor...But your right reading is a lost art in todays backwards, feel good society...

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[jerseyben]

Ben use Google you can find it...

We are suppose to teach our kids how to find the right answer not the wrong answer. If they got the wrong answers they missed the questions and should be graded as such.

In the real world they don't pay you to get the wrong answers and can care less if you understood your process.

The kids are being taught correct answer isn't as important as the process... I sure as heck don't want to fly on planes designed and built under this

Do you think that is the teaching method in Japan..

It is no wonder we have lost our position in education compared to other countries ...

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That is the whole point - we are trying to teach kids HOW to find the right answer, but the right answer itself is meaningless.

Re-read what I wrote because you obviously missed the point.

It is about developing critical skills that can be used later in life. You are missing the big picture here. Getting the "right answer" at a young age means almost nothing. Developing these critical thinking skills builds the backbone to figure out the right answser - this is what teaching is all about.

If a kid learms that 25+25=50, then all he will ever know how to do is make change at a cash register.

If a kid learns that 25+y=50, then that same kid can figure out that y could be another combination that ultimately leads the right answer. This can lead to a career doing any number of other things where the critical thinking skills that allow a kid to know that y might mean more than just 25 will be useful.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

That is the whole point - we are trying to teach kids HOW to find the right answer, but the right answer itself is meaningless.

Re-read what I wrote because you obviously missed the point.

It is about developing critical skills that can be used later in life. You are missing the big picture here. Getting the "right answer" at a young age means almost nothing. Developing these critical thinking skills builds the backbone to figure out the right answser - this is what teaching is all about.

If a kid learms that 25+25=50, then all he will ever know how to do is make change at a cash register.

If a kid learns that 25+y=50, then that same kid can figure out that y could be another combination that ultimately leads the right answer. This can lead to a career doing any number of other things where the critical thinking skills that allow a kid to know that y might mean more than just 25 will be useful.

No, I did not "obviously" miss your point, I think you missed mine.

The child should not get any credit for the question if the answer was wrong.......They still need to learn the process, but you don't get credit for a wrong answer.

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[Dave44]

That is the whole point - we are trying to teach kids HOW to find the right answer, but the right answer itself is meaningless.

Re-read what I wrote because you obviously missed the point.

It is about developing critical skills that can be used later in life. You are missing the big picture here. Getting the "right answer" at a young age means almost nothing. Developing these critical thinking skills builds the backbone to figure out the right answser - this is what teaching is all about.

If a kid learms that 25+25=50, then all he will ever know how to do is make change at a cash register.

If a kid learns that 25+y=50, then that same kid can figure out that y could be another combination that ultimately leads the right answer. This can lead to a career doing any number of other things where the critical thinking skills that allow a kid to know that y might mean more than just 25 will be useful.

Then you are advocating teaching basic algebra in the 2nd grade? Or should we make them comfortable with how to get the Right answer before letting them work on calculus? I am sure educators are missing the point of learning that precision is also important. Because it helps the overall score of the schools if they can just say "yeah, Johnny was close, so we will report to the state that we are exceeding our goals".

Looks to me like it is all part of the lowering of standards and giving awards to all.

And, Austin, the book burners are part of the left. As were the prohibitionists and the biggest violators of civil rights.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

this thread is revisionist history

 

[packerbacker]

My son and I went to a high school football game where they served sandwiches, sodas and such at the snack bar that was manned by high school students. I got a $4 tri-tip sandwich and a $1.50 soda. The girl waiting on me took out her handheld calculator and added it up and told me it would be $5.50. With my eyes rolling in my head I handed her a 10 dollar bill. Again she used the calculator to inform me I was going to get $4.50 in change. Then my son ordered the same thing, a sandwich and a soda. Again she pulled out the calculator and told him that it would be $5.50. My son also handed her a 10 dollar bill and as she was using the calculator to figure out his change I remarked, "I bet you get $4.50". After reaching her calculation she looked at me and said excitedly, "You're right!". She has no clue what 25 + 25 is. I bet her math teacher is a well paid union worker with tenure and will retire with a huge retirement package worth far more than he/she contributed to the world.

 

[jerseyben]

Then you are advocating teaching basic algebra in the 2nd grade? Or should we make them comfortable with how to get the Right answer before letting them work on calculus? I am sure educators are missing the point of learning that precision is also important. Because it helps the overall score of the schools if they can just say "yeah, Johnny was close, so we will report to the state that we are exceeding our goals".

Looks to me like it is all part of the lowering of standards and giving awards to all.

And, Austin, the book burners are part of the left. As were the prohibitionists and the biggest violators of civil rights.

Get off your high horse with the "giving awards to all" stuff.

Yes, you are right - standards are being lowered.

That does not mean that the basic principles behind their education are any less valid.

It also does not give anyone the right to vilify educators for "lowering standards". The state sets educational standards and teachers are required to abide by them and to teach the curciculum.

Teachers are doing the best they can with what they are being given. What they are being given is standardized testing the kids to death, curiculums shoved down their throats, kids who are court ordered to be in school who are only in class because the alternative is jail, and kids who do not get 3 square meals a day. How do you expect a kid to be able to focus on learning when they arent even sure when they will eat their next meal?

 

[jerseyben]

I bet her math teacher is a well paid union worker with tenure and will retire with a huge retirement package worth far more than he/she contributed to the world.

With that 1 statement, I literally lost any shred of respect I ever had for you. Disgusting.

 

[GMD52]

Jersey,

You need to calm down, your views aren't the only ones out there, and you're as demeaning to us as you acuse us of being to you. the road goes both ways, and while you defend you're side, you denigrate the other....both sides lose, and no-one learns, I hope that you get over the felling of being the only advocate, and try and listen to what other's say, I think some of us have a little more experience in why we think like we do, we're not always right, but also we're far from being wrong as much as you say we are....Gary

 

[packerbacker]

ben, you may have reason to have such strong sentiments for the profession as I once did. It just isn't that way anymore as far as I'm concerned. The unions have ruined many facets of American life and the schools, in my opinion, is one of them. Yes, there are good teachers, but I was speaking of the talents of a high school student that I'd consider educated had I not experienced her lack of knowledge of common, everyday math. Someone failed her so I have to look at who is responsible and who is getting paid for teaching these people. Yes, it is disgusting.

 

[CoilyGirl]

WHAT does one have to do with the other?

Granted, I watched her performance and also found it to be distasteful. But to somehow imply that people like her exist because of teachers and professors is just rediculous and quite frankly, a bit unfair. I am getting tired of the judgement that you guys constantly pass around with broad generalizations (ie. against teachers, professors, liberals, etc).

Ben have you ever heard the term "if you sleep with dogs you"ll wake up with fleas?" My point is the degradation,the weakening of our youths' morality is the reason our country is in the state it is in.Our children's morals have been compromised because of liberal teachers in public school and agendas being pushed even as young as kindergarten such as gay marriage,gay lifestyles, which should never enter into " academics." Biblical teachings are a no no unless you have the money to shell out for private Christian based schools and subjects that should be left discussed between parents and children such as lifestyle choices are being mainstreamed into our school systems when parents are clearly against it so yes,liberal teachers and professors are being allowed to lead our youth into a declination.Promiscuity is at an all time high right now so kids are learning it from somewhere.

 

[dieselram94]

Get off your high horse with the "giving awards to all" stuff.

Yes, you are right - standards are being lowered.

That does not mean that the basic principles behind their education are any less valid.

It also does not give anyone the right to vilify educators for "lowering standards". The state sets educational standards and teachers are required to abide by them and to teach the curciculum.

Teachers are doing the best they can with what they are being given. What they are being given is standardized testing the kids to death, curiculums shoved down their throats, kids who are court ordered to be in school who are only in class because the alternative is jail, and kids who do not get 3 square meals a day. How do you expect a kid to be able to focus on learning when they arent even sure when they will eat their next meal?

Ben, the govt does set the standard. And the standard is lowered all the time. That doesn't meen a teacher is not allowed to actually teach above the standard. Many are just well paid babysitters...

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