CIRCA 1900 FRAMED BASEBALL PICTURE

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

"Play Ball"

I went to a swap meet recently and purchased an old, framed baseball player photo that I paid $10.00 for. I have already done quite a bit of research on it that can best be summed up with the following which is how I came up with a date of circa 1900 ... (Also see pictures).

1. The seller said he found it in a box of other junk and didn't know anything about it.
2. The frame is made of tin ~ Appears Victorian ~ Hand painted floral ~ Fold-out standee on back.
3. The frame is oval and measures 3 1/2" x 2 1/2"
4. The photo is sepa colored (brownish) and was developed in an oval shape then cut to fit.

5. Regarding the uniform ...

Uniform Parts:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Caps - 1888 - Spalding:
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Shoes - 1883 - Spalding: National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Collar - Last Used 1906
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Uniform/Beltless - First Used circa 1910
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Earliest Numbering of Jerseys - 1907-09
National Baseball Hall of Fame - Dressed to the Nines - Parts of the Uniform

Baseball History - First Major Leagues 1871 thru 1875
History of baseball in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Grain Elevators: Grain Elevators -- History

Pictures, etc ...


1. Framed Photo.

2. Photo Only.

3. Frame and Back. (Glass Not Shown).

4. Cropped Photo. I cannot read the words on the grain elevator.

Shoes from above link ~ He appears to be wearing #1 ~ Solid black high top. Ad is from 1883 Spalding catalog.

Cap ~ Appears to be either #11 or #19 ~ Mulit-sectioned top part. Ad is from 1888 Spalding catalog. I can't tell in my photo if the player is wearing a short or a long bill cap.

Uniform Pants/Beltless ~ Player in my photo is wearing a belt. Belts were last used on uniforms around 1910. This picture is the earliest known example that shows a beltless player and is dated 1913. It is said that prior to 1913 most players wore belts until they were discouraged and possibly even banned because defensive players would sometimes grab hold of the belt to stop an advancing runner.


Footnotes:

1. The Major Leagues were first introduced around 1871 to 1875.
2. Uniform numbering was first introduced in Major Leagues around 1907-1909. (My player has no visible number on his jersey.
3. Uniform "Collars" were last used around 1906. My player's jersey appears to have a collar.

Bottom Line Questions ...

1. Can you think of anything I missed?
2. do you agree with the circa 1900 date?
3. Do you think the player is ... Hometown Team ~ Farm/Minor League ~ Major League?
4. Can you think of any way to identify the location?
5. And what about the grain elevetor? Any clues there? Midwest?

6. And most important of all, do you happen to recognize The Player?

Thanks in advance for your time and interest. I realize I am asking some tough questions that may be impossible to answer, but I thought it would be fun anyway because Baseball season is upon us and I know there are a lot of fans out there like myself.

Sodabottlebob

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I got to thinking, and irregardless whether it's one structure or two, or 40 feet or 80 feet, it will likely be the upper portion that stands out most, and will have what I call a squat looking room on top with an unusual looking roof jutting out from one side. So if something like that jumps out at me, then I will zoom in on it and see what other features it has. It's like that little guy on Fantasy Island used to say, "de plane! - de plane!" Except in this case I say, "de roof! - de roof!" (Lol)

Bob

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Regarding the Attica building, based on my calculations in connection with the pictures below, it appears to be approximately 40 to 50 (avg 45) feet to the crown of the main roof, with maybe an additional 15 feet for the upper room, which totals approximately 60 feet overall. So if the structure in my photo is the same or a similar building, then I'd say the height is just about right. But other than that, its still a long line of question marks at the moment ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

55 to 65 feet max overall height. Notice that a large sliding door is shown on opposite corners of the buildings shown below, which indicates we have a view of both ends of the building. The building in my photo has what appears to be a sliding door at the left corner. Thus, the first picture below is the one to study the closest. However, the so called sliding door in my photo (if that's what it is) appears to go clear up to the roof line of the building. Hmmm ~ more question marks ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[zendog64]

I think the utility pole can be a valuable clue. I've been reading up on rural electrification, and here's what Wikipedia has to say:

"Despite widespread electricity in cities, by the 1920s electricity was not delivered by power companies to rural areas"

"A Minnesota state committee conducted an experiment, providing electricity to nine farms in the Red Wing area. Electricity was first delivered on December 24, 1923"

"Before 1936, a small but growing number of farms installed small wind-electric plants. These generally used a 40V DC generator to charge batteries in the barn or the basement of the farmhouse"

"Of the 6.3 million farms in the United States in January 1925, only 205,000 were receiving centralized electric services"

Since I believe the picture is pre-1925 (based on the player's uniform), this would eliminate 97% of rural towns (if my math is correct). All you'd have to do is find the 3% of rural communities which had electricity by 1925.

I'll do a little more research into this after I get caught up on the previous posts I missed.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

zen ~

Please let us know if you come up with any links etc pertaining to the 3%. It would be worth taking a look at. I can't imagine that (whatever it is) being anything but a utility pole. I'm pretty sure it has cross arms. Remember, according to the Baseball Hall of Fame the photo dates to no later than circa 1910.

I'm pretty sure the elevator pictured below is not the one in question, but it is definitely the style I am currently focusing on, espesially if you eliminate the foreground building in my photo. I think of this style as "simple" versus the "monsters" that seem to dominate most picture galleries. I'm confident that our elevator is not one of those "skyscraper" types.


Those dark lines on the upper portion of the baseball elevator might be "short slanty roofs."

Judyville, Indiana

 

[zendog64]

Uncovered some nifty info on Attica!

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]The following article is derived from “The Attica Ledger and Tribune” dated Friday, April 28, 1922. It speaks of the Attica Baseball team from 1902. This team was known as the Attica ball team and was managed by a Al Sargeant and James Hildebrand. This was an independent team that was financed by the local businesses of Attica. Every man that played for this team drew a salary and were experts at their positions. Back in these days, Attica was a proud possessor of a real major league ball park quite nice in those days. It was enclosed by an eight-foot, closely built board fence, with a grandstand that would seat five to six hundred people. This ballpark was situated on the Slusser place, near where the old Poston Brick Plant used to stand. These games were played on weekdays as well as Sundays. These games drew very large crowds from the surrounding towns and people from the rural areas. One of the most memorable games is when the Attica ball team played the Chicago White Sox and came close to beating them. It was said that the game was so heated and contested that it required eleven innings to finally declared the winner with the score 3 to 2 in favor of the Sox. The Attica ball team played 72 games this year, winning 46 of them. It is to my knowledge the team only lasted a few years and there was a charge to reform the team in the early twenties but with no luck. Shall we try and think back to a time when baseball and apple pie belonged in the same sentence and life was standing behind your community and watching America’s favorite pastime, Baseball.

The team's 1902 roster:

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Parker, 3b
Caplinger, cf
De Haven, lf
Ruddle, 1b
Buckley, c
Leighty, ss
Whitney, 2b
Conge, p and rf 25 wins, 6 loses, 6 shut-outs
Gillis, p 12 wins, 12 loses, 5 shuts-outs
Irwin, p 14 wins, 8 loses, 4 shut-outs [/FONT]



Very close similarity in uniforms!

Also, because of the shadows in the mystery picture, we can deduce that (unless the pic was taken in morning), the unidentified player is standing south of the GE. This would put the unusual projection of the GE's headhouse to the right of the picture (meaning the modern picture of the Attica GE is taken from the opposite side).

By looking at the satellite photo of the town, you'll see that SOUTH of the grain elevator, near the junction of N. 3rd St. and W. Main Street, is an area which looks like it may have been an old ballfield. Across the tracks, to the left where the C&D Technologies plant now stands, is the site of the old Poston Brick plant (as described in the 1922 newspaper article).

Also, if you look closely at the satellite image, to the right of the GE is some outbuilding which may be the dark-colored building in the mystery picture.

I don't want to prematurely jump to any conclusions, but a 1902 exhibition game between a local Attica team and the Chicago White Sox would be grounds for having this picture taken. Also, Attica was electrified by 1902. The Attica GE is the closest match I've been able to find thus far, on account of that weird projection on the headhouse.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Zen ~

There is nothing I would rather do right now than to jump up and down and hollar, "Hooray, it's solved!" However, before doing that, I ask that you consider the following with an open mind and employ every ounce of logic you can muster. For the past hour I have been re-examining the original photograph as well as looking at numerous other pictures I have saved in my photo gallery, and came up with something that I honestly feel needs to be considered carefully and, if possible, explained. What I am referring to can best be illustrated by comparing the pictures below.

1. Notice that the first picture is a straight-on shot and that very, very little if any of the outer walls are visible.

2. Notice that the second picture, which is the Attica elevator, is taken from the left and that most of the left side walls are visible but none of the right side walls as would be expected from that particular camera angle.

3. Now notice in the third picture, which we are all familiar with, and how it too is a straight-on shot, except that when you examine it closely you will notice that no portion of the outer left wall in the foreground building is visible, and yet there is a great deal of left side wall visible on the tower and headhouse portion of the structure.

The only logical deduction I can think of to explain this difference in wall exposures is because they are two different buildings standing at slightly different angles. If they were one structure, that is, headhouse atop a lower house, the wall exposures would be the same, or at least close, as opposed to being so dramatically different.

As I said, I just now discovered this after a close examination of the original photo, and am wide open for suggestions if someone can find a better explanation to my observations.

Please let me know what you think. I will respect whatever you have to say and take it into consideration. And thank you for taking such an active interest in this topic, I truly appreciate it.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im assuming thats a grain auger on the left but is that also one on the right and another grain elevator building as well? Maybe this was already mentioned.
View attachment 639176

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Im assuming thats a grain auger on the left but is that also one on the right and another grain elevator building as well? Maybe this was already mentioned.
View attachment 639176

Hey Big Cy ~

Thanks for stopping by. And, yes, auger on the left and what appears to be an all wood elevator on the right. I'd say the main topic of discussion now is whether the structure in my photo is one building or two? Please read my last post for my most recent observation. Determining if we are dealing with one structure or two will certainly narrow down the field and make searching for the right elevator a lot easier. I am currently leaning heavily toward two seperate buildings.

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes I read it but dont have anything to add. The elevator does appear slightly tilted.


So the slanted item on the right I marked in red is a second grain auger or is it a scratch on the photo?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes it also appears a different angle of view but it so hard to see the blurry pic.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Do you want my observation? Well here goes. The 2 grain elevators appear to be positioned the same angle probably facing the RR tracks and I agree with your obsevation that the building in front is at a different angle and is probably a detached seperate building possibly on the opposite (this side) of the track. The RR track may run in between?

Threads with many pics are way to slow for me to continue posting much more.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm not sure what that verticle line is on the right. It doesn't appear to be natural and may be either a faint pencil mark or a flaw in the photo prosessing.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yea you got it Bob. 2 seperate buildings or at least 2 seperate angles. I used to sketch buildings in art class and no way would this be a proper view. If its attached, its attached at a weird angle.

Where are the RR tracks? I dont see anything in front of the billboard building. I think they may be in between.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The RR tracks may also be on the far side and we are looking at the backsides of 2 grain elevators. I see what may be an electric pole off to the right. Its very hard for me to see.

The second elevator may not be as small as it looks but may be further away down the tracks.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'd like to point out that having the original photograph to examine isn't all that it's cracked up to be. On the original photo the main elevator structure is only 5/8" high and needs to be looked at with a magnifying glass. But even so, the overall sharpness is definitely better that anything I've scanned and posted. And because of this I am convinced of two things now ...

1. They are two seperate buildings. But whether they are 20 feet or 200 feet apart, I cannot say.

2. The small headhouse is centered atop the main structure and is not off-set as I previously thought.


Study these two pictures which are of the same elevator but at different camera angles and it will boggle your mind. In one frame the headhouse looks centered but in the other frame it appears offset. And because the angle is looking up, the roofs appear to be flat, but I can almost guarantee you that the roofs are slanted like any other roof. Plus, the various augers will play tricks on your eyes as well. The auger that looks like it's going down into the treetops is in reality different when you examine it closely from the other side. Check it out.


Winamac, Indiana

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

In case you haven't come across these yet, check'em out. They are as good as it gets. I'm not sure how many individual photos they include, but it's hundreds. I have looked at every page and every photo, but I still could have missed something.

TheGrainElevatorGuy's favorite photos and videos | Flickr

grain elevators - Flickr: Search

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

This sketch is what I invision the upper portion of elevator to look like. I left the lower portion unfinished because its impossible to know whether or not there are any additional structures attached to or in the vacinity of the tower. So until something presents itself to refute my vision, this general design is what I intend to focus on and search for. I realize that others may invision it differently, but based on everything I currently know, including extensive research and close examination of the original photograph, I truly believe this is very close to what the tower would look like if viewed from a slightly different camera angle.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Important Note ...

The $100.00 reward for finding the exact elevator shown in my photo, (including town/state location) is still up for grabs. However, I will be withdrawing the reward as of noon Pacific time on ...

Tuesday, May 29, 2012.

Have a great Memorial Day weekend.

Respectfully,

Bob

 

[DeerStalker]

Ok, I've been hooked on this thread since I first saw it! This puzzle is driving me crazy!!! Figured I'd add my 2 cents in here because I seem to be seeing things a bit different than most of you. First, the long building in front of the grain elevator looks like a covered bridge to me. If you look at the person on the right hand side of the picture he seems to be standing way back from the subject of the picture, and possibly near a river. The poles may not be electrical, but telegraph cable instead. The grain elevator looks to me that it is on the other side of the river. Anyway, these are just my observations...could be wrong.

 

[cw0909]

bob i found some interesting reading on GEs,first i think your GE,is several
GEs,so that granary would be, what was and still is a line elevators,but may
have belonged to a group of farm companies,and the wooden GE,was being
replaced with concrete, bc of fires and losing product,in the jpgs are a list of
GE builders,and grain co. from that era,here is a list of links for research,im not
sure how much time i can devote to it,as little league is up and running, and
i volunteer for mentally and developmentally disabled children,and it takes a lot
of my time,if i find something ill post

what the elevators are called

country elevators
farmers elevators
line elevators

The line elevator companies 1901
United States Congressional serial set, Issue 4168
United States Congressional serial set - Google Books
farmers elevators historical sketch in Minn
Station bulletin - Minnesota Agricultural Experiment Station - Google Books
The grain and feed review, Volume 4
By Manager publishing company
1915 - Free Google eBook
The grain and feed review - Manager publishing company - Google Books
Grain Dealers Journal
the grain dealers journal - Google Search