CLUES THAT MATCH MY SEARCH AREA

[Springfield]

Joe

.... it should be a no-brainier that Waltz didn't Highgrade it. At least not from the Vulture.

Thanks
Travis

It should, shouldn't it?

When you find yourself more than one degree of separation from an event or the witness, you're already in deep kinmchi. When Waltz went room temperature in 1891, he took any hope of solving the mystery that surrounds his life with him. You didn't talk with him yourself, so It's all been hearsay since. Human Nature 101: people lie. Other than the promise of a fun adventure in the hills, why would you truly believe any of it? Seriously, why? GIGO.

 

[393stroker]

It should, shouldn't it?

When you find yourself more than one degree of separation from an event or the witness, you're already in deep kinmchi. When Waltz went room temperature in 1891, he took any hope of solving the mystery that surrounds his life with him. You didn't talk with him yourself, so It's all been hearsay since. Human Nature 101: people lie. Other than the promise of a fun adventure in the hills, why would you truly believe any of it? Seriously, why? GIGO.

Why? That`s a fair question, most people have enough faith in humanity to believe that a man on his deathbed is not going to lie when he speaks his last words. It`s a thing called faith, it`s something that you can`t see with your two eyes, but with your minds eye, your third eye. Intuition, your gut feeling. It`s human nature to not stray too far from our comfort zones of thought in fear of not being politically correct. The lies, if any, would be in the written clues and directions done by others to conceal the true meaning. That`s just some thoughts I had Bro. Take it easy, Chuck

 

[Twisted Fork]

RRMy spot is solid rock except for one spot, and it's about 20' by 25' of dirt, all the same color. Now keep in mind, you're looking for about a 3 to 6 foot wide hole, filled with anywhere from 4 to 2 feet of dirt (depending on who's version you're reading). So a 20 foot patch of dirt might as well be a mile if you only have a day or two at a time to spend out there. and then there's the whole "it's illegal to dig" thing... Finding that Vent Hole was my biggest breakthrough, in my opinion. I'll just say it, I believe you're looking at the bottom of the "Volcanic Vent" that is the Lost Dutchman mine. If it proves passable by climbing in it, there will be no reason to dig. I can photograph my proof without breaking the law. How great would it be to actually prove this thing without doing anything illegal..?After finding that vent hole, it shouldn't be hard to get in there with some minimal climbing equipment... And when I say "climbing equipment".... I mean rope... LOLThanksTravis

I am assuming that you are telling us that the funnel pit that you have in mind must be upside down? The Peraltas, Waltz and the Apache all refer to a wide mouthed funnel pit on a slope and out in the open; that is until the Apache spent several winter months in 1893, burying it with countless baskets of rock and dirt as hauled on the backs of their women. The braves stood guard along the ridge lines. Could be that "Big Foot" is more in line with your way of the hunt. Mabe the South Pole is unside down too?

 

[Springfield]

Why? That`s a fair question, most people have enough faith in humanity to believe that a man on his deathbed is not going to lie when he speaks his last words. .....

I won't argue your point. Unfortunately, the deathbed statement, if it existed, was spoken to another person - not you. And that person gave the info to someone else. That's three degrees of separation already, bro - your info is seriously cooked.

 

[Colorado Mine Hunter]

I agree that no clue can be depended upon with absolute faith due to the nature of second or third hand information being distorted or misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented so as to misdirect others to a wrong location. If I were given first hand inside information that I knew to be reliable about a deposit as rich as the Dutchman site and I knew that there were lots of other people looking for it, I believe anything I revealed about it (which would be either nothing or very, very little) would tend to send other searchers in the wrong direction.

However, the fact that some of the folks that had first hand reliable information spent the majority of the rest of their lives and fortunes searching for the mine tells a logical person that they had to believe the information with all their heart and intellect. Now in the case of Julia Thomas, my gut tells me that she had neither the intellect or the experience to produce any results or valuable clues/directions. From what I have read she was quite a charlatan and got entirely side-tracked with her later husband in their religious scam.

Dick Holmes and his son Brownie however have far more credibility and craftiness, and knowing that they spent so much time and treasure looking for the mine tells me that they absolutely believed in it (but may have planted misleading clues to throw other searchers off track).

Others, such as the two soldiers, knew accurately where the mine was located and lost their lives trying to return to the mine. Why would they trek back into extremely dangerous Apache territory if they were only following a legend? And where did they get the rich gold ore that they left with the superintendent of the Silver King if they had not stumbled on the mine?

To me, the sheer preponderance of information that correlates across multiple different sources tells me that the mine was real. If it hasn't already been discovered and secretly worked out (which I doubt), then it is still there, filled in by either the Apaches or Waltz (I have read both stories and don't know which one is the truth).

Colorado Mine Hunter

 

[Springfield]

...However, the fact that some of the folks that had first hand reliable information spent the majority of the rest of their lives and fortunes searching for the mine tells a logical person that they had to believe the information with all their heart and intellect. ...

It has not been demonstrated that the information possessed by 'first hand' witnesses was 'reliable'. Closer to Waltz, yes, presumably. Obviously, these people strongly believed the information they had and acted on it. This isn't just logical behavior, but predictable behavior. However, until it can be demonstrated that Waltz had a mine in the Superstitions and somebody has located it, all 'evidence' is circumstantial to the legend, and all accounts are hearsay. After 120 years, 'logic' now indicates that Waltz may have lied about his activities.

 

[Quinan Bear]

Great job Dirty Dutchman, You will find the juniper tree when you are standing on the mine. from there you will have the place that will complete your clues. I would suggest that you use a solid prob to find the shaft (about 3.5 feet down), use a small hammer if need to make the prob punch through the plaster in order to hit the wood.

 

[BT3]

Springfield, out of myths an legends there is many times grains of truth. If you learn to read between the lines you might be able to see a vast new world. I learned how many years ago. Example an I could be wrong. Spend any of your youth in a humid foreign country, or knew someone that did, age most likely 55-65. But think 63. If right got it from just one post, if wrong, well same as the LDM. Many possibilities but I could also be wrong there but it's fun trying.
Travis you ever do any extreme 4 -wheeling in that area, curious is all. If so we may have met recently, If not met a nice guy with same name last trip.
Again you'll never find what you seek unless the boots hit the trail. Real or imagined

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

BT3

It wasn't me out there on a four wheeler.

Thanks
Travis

 

[vastterrain]

The Heart is the Pit! The heart is 200' across.The Witch is above it. The Priest is on the side. The Horse is in front of it and the Cave is below it.

- John Arizona

Sounds like you found it! Good thing too, you saved us all from doing anymore hiking......OK boys n girls we can all go home now and wait for the details to be on the local news....

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

I have to make this announcement every once in awhile, so here it is again:

I do not exchange private messages, e-mails or phone calls from people I don't know.

On the other hand, if you will provide your real name, address, phone number and e-mail
address, I will give you my personal information in return.,

Too many burro-holes on the Internet.

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[johnmark29020]

Have you considered following waltzs directions in reverse. Just to see if you come out in the right place.
you might even find out where julia and party went wrong.
Waltz said that he could go to the boad house and back to the mine in a day.( i think thats right.
Remember as much as everyone has been trying to find the mine.
They also want to find out where julia and party went wrong
Thanks roy.

 

[vor]

Have you considered following waltzs directions in reverse. Just to see if you come out in the right place.
you might even find out where julia and party went wrong.
Waltz said that he could go to the boad house and back to the mine in a day.( i think thats right.
Remember as much as everyone has been trying to find the mine.
They also want to find out where julia and party went wrong
Thanks roy.

Would you hold the maps/sketches upside down or look at them in the mirror?

 

[roadrunner]

(Waltz said that he could go to the boad house and back to the mine in a day) @ JM, Roy,where did you hear that,or read that if i might ask.
I have never read or heard that before.
What board house is this?
The one over here by coffee flats, or where ever it is.
Oh, by the way, where is, or was this board house over here?
What canyon,or place if anyone knows.

 

[lost]

Travis---Did you ever go back to where you thought you saw a man and checked the area out?

 

[Some Dude]

(Waltz said that he could go to the boad house and back to the mine in a day) @ JM, Roy,where did you hear that,or read that if i might ask.
I have never read or heard that before.
What board house is this?
The one over here by coffee flats, or where ever it is.
Oh, by the way, where is, or was this board house over here?
What canyon,or place if anyone knows.

Clay Worst mentioned that JW told Holmes that he could go from the Board House to the mine and back in a day. It's on his DVD. By the nature of your question - Clay also says that JW was seen going into the hills via Miner's Needle - albeit the trail at that time was on the West side on Miner's Needle.... NOW - Clay makes it abundently clear that he is only telling stories from other people and that what he says is NOT his story.FWIW.

Some Dude

 

[roadrunner]

Where, and when was this board house located?
Is it still around?
Or the foundation, ruins, corrals, anything.

 

[johnmark29020]

Clay Worst mentioned that JW told Holmes that he could go from the Board House to the mine and back in a day. It's on his DVD. By the nature of your question - Clay also says that JW was seen going into the hills via Miner's Needle - albeit the trail at that time was on the West side on Miner's Needle.... NOW - Clay makes it abundently clear that he is only telling stories from other people and that what he says is NOT his story.FWIW.

Some Dude

yea thats it. I didnt realize that he was only quoting other stories. I saw just a portion of his tellings on the net. I had a hard time hearing him since my pc speakers are crap. thanks some dude

 

[Connecticut Sam]

BT3

It wasn't me out there on a four wheeler.

Thanks
Travis

I am sure it was you. What do you look like?

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

I am sure it was you. What do you look like?

The only "four wheelers" I own are horses. And that's me in my avatar picture. Other than having a hat on when I go to the hills, that's what I look like...(minus the guitar of course)

Travis