Perfil Mapa and Rogers Canyon

[skyhawk1251]

The cliff dwellings in Rogers Canyon are well known today, and were probably just as well known in P.C. Bicknell's time. They, and the Perfil Mapa (Profile Map), could explain why he was drawn to that area during his search for the Lost Dutchman Mine.

Despite Bicknell's failure to find the mine, as well as the lack of success by other searchers, I think it is unwise to totally dismiss Rogers Canyon as the possible site of a mine. From what I see, just from using Google Earth, there is sufficient evidence to justify some intensive exploratory trips to the canyon.

Unlike some others who have deduced that the Perfil Mapa was drawn by a person who stood in one place and drew what he saw by looking from side to side, I see the map as picturing surface features in profile that are seen as a person walks along the canyon and encounters them one by one. I came to that conclusion when I noticed a prominent, rock pinnacle that matches the shape of what is depicted on the map, and associating it with the cliff dwellings -- two features on the map that are in different locations in the canyon. With those two features in mind, it was possible to include other features that could agree with the scheme of the map.

It's important to mention that there are apparent spelling errors on the map. "Sima" should be "cima" and "escardadia" should be "escarpadia."

There should be no doubt about "caverna con casa" -- the cliff dwellings. My Google Earth 3D image below shows the "cima" -- the rock pinnacle. There is a rock formation that could be "escarpadia", shown in another GE image. Rogers Canyon Spring is easily found using Google Earth -- "agua" on the map. If "tunel" and "hoya" exist, they will not be seen using Google Earth, which is why on-the-ground exploration is justified.

Going from south to north, the following features are passed: Rogers Canyon Spring, cima, escarpadia, caverna con casa.

Google Earth also seems to show a "pit" about 35 feet in length in the canyon (the third image). See the GPS coordinates for its location.

 

[GreenBranch]

I agree. On my last hike up to the caverna con casa (1) I noticed a sharp pinnacle to the south (3) that you can't see from the valley floor which I believe is south cima. Exactly to the north across the valley (2) is another peak I'm sure is Sombrero. Looking south from the cave there is a very steep and rocky canyon (4) with an escarpment that I plan to explore whenever water next flows in Rogers canyon. I'm hoping for a good monsoon season this year.

 

[Doc4261]

I could see how you could convince yourself of that with pic you posted, but would be a waste of time. The Perfil map is of another location. Known by many and green shirts. You could never work it without getting in trouble. Its not the LDM anyways.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I could see how you could convince yourself of that with pic you posted, but would be a waste of time. The Perfil map is of another location. Known by many and green shirts. You could never work it without getting in trouble. Its not the LDM anyways.

Any reason to not share the coordinates?

 

[Doc4261]

Any reason to not share the coordinates?

For me, there are alot of other things around that area of interest, Dont want to ruin someone elses interests. I personally know of 5 spots Id like to look at without prying eyes at some time that would be easily verifiable and maybe a lil sum, sum recovered.

 

[skyhawk1251]

I agree. On my last hike up to the caverna con casa (1) I noticed a sharp pinnacle to the south (3) that you can't see from the valley floor which I believe is south cima. Exactly to the north across the valley (2) is another peak I'm sure is Sombrero. Looking south from the cave there is a very steep and rocky canyon (4) with an escarpment that I plan to explore whenever water next flows in Rogers canyon. I'm hoping for a good monsoon season this year.

The "El Sombrero" shown on the Perfil Mapa is not Weaver's Needle, on which you also seem to be in agreement. The profile drawn on the map does not match Weaver's Needle. There is a broad-based pinnacle in Rogers Canyon that could be the map's "El Sombrero." Also, I want everyone to notice that I did not say the map shows the location of the Lost Dutchman Mine. It only shows a tunnel and hole that could indicate the existence of a mine.

I wish you the best with your explorations. Please take plenty of photos and share them with your fellow forum members. "The truth is out there", to use a well-worn phrase.

 

[skyhawk1251]

For me, there are alot of other things around that area of interest, Dont want to ruin someone elses interests. I personally know of 5 spots Id like to look at without prying eyes at some time that would be easily verifiable and maybe a lil sum, sum recovered.

You could post Google Earth images (close-ups) of those five spots, leaving out the GPS coordinates at the bottom of the images, as well as compass direction and size scale. Nor would you have to describe what you see in the images. Let others decide what they see, if anything.

 

[393stroker]

This photo I took is from the hill just to the south where the cave is.

 

[SPARTANOC]

The cliff dwellings in Rogers Canyon are well known today, and were probably just as well known in P.C. Bicknell's time. They, and the Perfil Mapa (Profile Map), could explain why he was drawn to that area during his search for the Lost Dutchman Mine.

Despite Bicknell's failure to find the mine, as well as the lack of success by other searchers, I think it is unwise to totally dismiss Rogers Canyon as the possible site of a mine. From what I see, just from using Google Earth, there is sufficient evidence to justify some intensive exploratory trips to the canyon.

Unlike some others who have deduced that the Perfil Mapa was drawn by a person who stood in one place and drew what he saw by looking from side to side, I see the map as picturing surface features in profile that are seen as a person walks along the canyon and encounters them one by one. I came to that conclusion when I noticed a prominent, rock pinnacle that matches the shape of what is depicted on the map, and associating it with the cliff dwellings -- two features on the map that are in different locations in the canyon. With those two features in mind, it was possible to include other features that could agree with the scheme of the map.

It's important to mention that there are apparent spelling errors on the map. "Sima" should be "cima" and "escardadia" should be "escarpadia."

There should be no doubt about "caverna con casa" -- the cliff dwellings. My Google Earth 3D image below shows the "cima" -- the rock pinnacle. There is a rock formation that could be "escarpadia", shown in another GE image. Rogers Canyon Spring is easily found using Google Earth -- "agua" on the map. If "tunel" and "hoya" exist, they will not be seen using Google Earth, which is why on-the-ground exploration is justified.

Going from south to north, the following features are passed: Rogers Canyon Spring, cima, escarpadia, caverna con casa.

Google Earth also seems to show a "pit" about 35 feet in length in the canyon (the third image). See the GPS coordinates for its location.


View attachment 2254317

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Skyhawk1251

I believe you are onto something. I too have marked the CIMA I found, in the exact same place you've placed your locale of it.

My problem comes in when I hear about feathers on an arrow via a mpa, that it actually represents a reversal of the compass heading. Do you think that is in play here on the Perfil Mapa?

-SpartanOC

 

[newnan man]

This photo I took is from the hill just to the south where the cave is.View attachment 2254443

That cave entrance looks well used. People, animals?

 

[393stroker]

 

[sgtfda]

Look at Byous Butte. That's where 3 million in gold was found in the early 50's.

 

[Idahodutch]

Skyhawk1251

I believe you are onto something. I too have marked the CIMA I found, in the exact same place you've placed your locale of it.

My problem comes in when I hear about feathers on an arrow via a mpa, that it actually represents a reversal of the compass heading. Do you think that is in play here on the Perfil Mapa?

-SpartanOC

Skyhawk1251,
I agree with SpartonOC, that area could be like you say. It’s a cool find to maybe be matching up an old map, to its site. I hope more can be found.

SpartonOC,
You bring up a good point. About possible reversal of compass. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[SPARTANOC]

Look at Byous Butte. That's where 3 million in gold was found in the early 50's.

Sgtfda

Are you convinced that the Perfil Mapa is to be used in the Byous Butte area? Without being in there and using GE, There does seem to be an area in there just West of Byous Butte that could be a contender. I've seen in past posts where you've mentioned Byous Butte when the subject of the Perfil Mapa comes up.

-SpartanOC

 

[skyhawk1251]

Skyhawk1251

I believe you are onto something. I too have marked the CIMA I found, in the exact same place you've placed your locale of it.

My problem comes in when I hear about feathers on an arrow via a mpa, that it actually represents a reversal of the compass heading. Do you think that is in play here on the Perfil Mapa?

-SpartanOC

The cima seems to be reversed as to compass heading. When looking north up the canyon, the cima is to the left. The map shows it on the right. The escarpadia is to the right when looking north, as it is shown on the map. The location of the caverna con casa seems to be reversed. The person who drew the map used some tricks to mentally confuse those who did not know the secrets of the tricks.

 

[skyhawk1251]

Look at Byous Butte. That's where 3 million in gold was found in the early 50's.

I'm wondering how Byous Butte correlates with caverna con casa.

 

[skyhawk1251]

That cave entrance looks well used. People, animals?

It's my opinion that the cave must have been used by ancient, indigenous people, since the cliff dwellings are nearby. The floor of the cave near the entrance looks very "clean" -- free of rock that could have fallen from the ceiling of the cave. Soot from fires inside the cave would confirm that it was used by humans.

 

[newnan man]

It's my opinion that the cave must have been used by ancient, indigenous people, since the cliff dwellings are nearby. The floor of the cave near the entrance looks very "clean" -- free of rock that could have fallen from the ceiling of the cave. Soot from fires inside the cave would confirm that it was used by humans.

I hope someone one this thread gets a chance to explore and photograph it.

 

[SPARTANOC]

The cima seems to be reversed as to compass heading. When looking north up the canyon, the cima is to the left. The map shows it on the right. The escarpadia is to the right when looking north, as it is shown on the map. The location of the caverna con casa seems to be reversed. The person who drew the map used some tricks to mentally confuse those who did not know the secrets of the tricks.

Skyhawk1251

I remember Markmar used to tell us all, when you see an arrow on a ciphered map - if feathers exist, we are to think the reverse of the compass coordinates. Was he correct in his assessment?

-SpartanOC

 

[skyhawk1251]

Skyhawk1251

I remember Markmar used to tell us all, when you see an arrow on a ciphered map - if feathers exist, we are to think the reverse of the compass coordinates. Was he correct in his assessment?

-SpartanOC

I think it's safe to assume that he was correct. He definitely was correct when he said that the old Spanish/Mexican maps are coded. Your copy of my miscellaneous notes contains a quote from one of Charles A. Kenworthy's books that confirms the maps are coded.