compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Ok - so tell me this - if you want to get into a really good college (or private school, for that matter), and you have absolutely no "extra-curricular" activities and volunteering in different areas, you have always been lower on admissions ladder.

Volunteering is much different than sending you to a job where someone owns you, your time, your freedom and your very being.

B

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

the no extra cric or vol hour --lower on the admission ranking --I ve never understood frankly -- your grades should be the bench mark --

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

ah you assumed ( thought without proof ) that I didn't have a degree and that I didn't go to college. (ie you were wrong). ---( 3.53 gpa---(A adverage) --nautical science program -- from charles county community college-- la plata , maryland -- november 7th, 1980) I'm sure you know what folks think about folks that assume stuff, its a bad thing, one should have proof.

and when one is clearly in error , or accused or implied something false about another thru "assuming" , one should be man enough to able to "admit" it and say sorry about that , I was in error (wrong) -- however since you are incapible or unwilling to do so -- I will accept you admitting you"assumed" as a apology since its the best you can do.

often in many cases people tend to "project" their flaws upon others -- accusing then of being "uneducated" or envying others who are educated , when in fact it is they who suffer from this problem . --- since being accused of not being "educated"--I have happily supplied "proof" that can quite easily be verified to prove otherwise --now that I have ---I feel entitled to ask the same of you in return -- what degree or degrees do you have and from where. (if degrees are needed in your view to debate this issue --it time for you to "pony up")

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

I ask for documentation that will support YOUR rant of forced labor and violations of the 13th amendment. After several prodding posts, you finally release a source...that still falls short of supporting how "wrong" Vollunteerism is! Oddly enough, Trenton College has been "doing it" for the past 14 years, and is a leader in scholastic ratings!

Compulsory Vollunteerism is not Vollunteerism. Vollunteerism is not what we are discussing. Does this type of blindness to logic seep throughout our country? If Vollunteerism is what we are discussing I would not have a problem. The Compulsory idea is the problem. Nuff said

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Good morning swr & room:

First, hasn't any one ever heard of "indentured" This bypasses the 13 th unfortunately, even if it was not voluntarily by the indentured one. In the case of immigrants, yes it was voluntary in exchange for the passage. As you can see, there is a fine line, not clearly drawn, in it's interpretation.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Swr you posted --->

"That's a new twist/spin. I have yet to hear anyone complain about using the internet as a media to achieve reliable references or sources that are verifiable"
~~~~~~~~~
You are joking of course ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You also posted -->

") There is a socialist mindset now days"
~~~~~~~~~~~
Again you must be kidding? You have any doubt?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You posted -->

"People feel that they owe the Government for their education"
~~~~~~~~~~~

Isn't other wise a form of socialism?
~~~~~~~~~~~
You also posted -->

"It is up to YOU to bring the documentation to the table/discussion."
~~~~~~~~~~

Please do so swr, I am still waiting for many in the past, but please NOT wiki. .
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

More later, have to go for a bit.


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

there is a vast differance between true or "free will" volunteerism--- which is a great thing in my veiw --- and "compulsory" or forced volunteerism *

if one can not mentally grasp the basic and vast differance between the two differant systems --the differance between ---you choose to do so via your "free choice" vs others saying "you must do it or esle you will not get your diploma" ( coerision / black mail) ---then theres really no point of trying to honestly debate with them about it , as they are unable mentally to get the point of the issue.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

There's also a difference between slavery and needing to complete course requirements.

IMO, if the person is not interested in completing course requirements because they view volunteerism as forced labor, they can walk away from the requirement and be a free person all day long.

Isn't this the bottom line?

Ivan... this is much adu about nothing.


Now - teaching gradeschoolers to sing praises to the president by rewritting a song about Jesus - THAT I have a problem with.

 

[Produce Guy]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Complulsory Volunteerism ia another word for the Draft.

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

There's also a difference between slavery and needing to complete course requirements.

IMO, if the person is not interested in completing course requirements because they view volunteerism as forced labor, they can walk away from the requirement and be a free person all day long.

Isn't this the bottom line?

Ivan... this is much adu about nothing.


Now - teaching gradeschoolers to sing praises to the president by rewritting a song about Jesus - THAT I have a problem with.

Jim, again if you don't "Volunteer" then it's not "Volunteerism. I do not recall anyone else that I have seen here views volunteerism as forced labor. That anyone can legitimately call being forced to do community work "volunteerism" staggers the imagination.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

There's also a difference between slavery and needing to complete course requirements.

IMO, if the person is not interested in completing course requirements because they view volunteerism as forced labor, they can walk away from the requirement and be a free person all day long.

Isn't this the bottom line?

Ivan... this is much adu about nothing.


Now - teaching gradeschoolers to sing praises to the president by rewritting a song about Jesus - THAT I have a problem with.

Jim, again if you don't "Volunteer" then it's not "Volunteerism. I do not recall anyone else that I have seen here views volunteerism as forced labor. That anyone can legitimately call being forced to do community work "volunteerism" staggers the imagination.

I mostly agree with you... buit it's out of context.

The original post was complaining that colleges require "volunteerism".

I assert it's not a big deal and may be required as coursework or part of the ciriculum...

Volunteer = Graduate. Thats all.

It's not new, it's not weird, it's nothing strange! It's just a tired talking point.


I agree that we need to watch for the obamatron national volunteer forces, I agree that we should not require compulsive volunteerism for the federal government, I agree it's a dangerous path and socialistic, and scary. I just do NOT see the college requirement to "volunteer" as any of that, it's mearly a time honered part of college... or ANY other organization's agenda. You're a member of the college - do the volunteer thing.


When you go to college - You don't have to do homework.
You don't have to show for classes.
You don't have to take tests.
You don't have to join a team or club.
You don't have to volunteer.

However, if the course, or college, requires activities that need you to do homework, attend class, take tests, join a club, or volunteer - then do it. Or walk away and say; "No thanks - I'm not interested."

Maybe I'm missing something here altogether... I dunno.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

uh hitler had the teachers teach the children to sing that "hilter was greater than jesus ---he is the salvor of the german people - for him we live ,for him we die." ----so one must "remember" that and be very wary of what the state teaches ones children.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

him hitler had the teachers teach the children to sing that "hilter was greater than jesus ---he is the salvor of the german people - for him we live ,for him we die.

Another subject altogether, and I agree that's a HUGE problem.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

HI Montana: I agree, it is a dangerous trend, but so is volunteerism being 'required' since it tends to indoctrinate our future generations into a subtle form of conditioned behavior,
with obligatory social service to 'start with' to the future Government. This in turn conditions them to accept owing their lives and goods to the gov't SOCIALISM??

On second thought, we have that right now. the gov't owns us and our goodies already. Sigh.

Oh well, I was fortunate to have had a form of freedom that most of todays generations cannot understand or appreciate.

In Mexico, if you are a medical professional, upon graduation, you are required to go to a small or remote village to practice for a year or so in a free clinic. This is considered as a payback to the citizens that paid the taxes to keep you in school

In the matter of involuntary servitude, we are awash in that right now. You know precisely what I mean.

To cap my opinion, I think that social service is fine to a point, but should 'not' be part of a 'requirement' to graduate, no matter what your major, only passing grades should be considered. This indicates that at least your parroting ability will meet certain standards, even if it does not actually mean that you have mastered the subject..

But then I guess that is now passe' under our new self esteem factor being the primary measurement. sigh.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

I remember when I was a boy scout - we had to do a community project to earn a merit badge.

Ask yourself, or your parents about your history in school... social volunteerism was rampet and common, and still is.

Only NOW are you all getting sweaty and nervy because of our current president - who is EXPLOITING what we all did as a matter of common normalcy.

Consider thats it's all the same under a different name now?

I'm not going to choke on the hype... nobody has to serve Obama to graduate, you just have to do what college students have been doing for years... again - review history.

Get mad about the songs they sing, not the volunteer projects. Unless they are helping ACORN, then I'd be upset! LMAO

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Good morning Montana: You posted -->

"Only NOW are you all getting sweaty and nervy because of our current president - who is EXPLOITING what we all did as a matter of common normalcy"
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nope, I am not getting sweaty just now. This has been going on at an accelerating rate since the 1930's. I couldn't do anything then, nor can I do anything now since the public is well conditioned by a continuously evolving process of the Gov't doing everything better for their own good..
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You also posted -->

Get mad about the songs they sing, not the volunteer projects"
~~~~~~~~~~~~

??Frankly what is the difference? both are conditioning processes

Don Jose de La Mancha
"

 

[21stTNCav]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Jim, I truly think we are awfully close on this subject. If I may I would just like to elaborate on a few of your points. I have never heard of a College that did not require course work. Work outside of the College that is course related is fine. It has been pointed out that some of what occurred at Trenton College was just that, part of a course. I do not consider such work to be Volunteerism because it does not meet the definition of the term. Nothing work wise in College is Volunteerism, it is work for a reward. A passing grade, a diploma. These are rewards for well done work, not volunteerism. Forcing a requirement to work for a off campus charity to obtain a diploma is not Volunteerism, no matter how you look at it. All such work must be course related or it cannot be linked to graduation period. The college wants to encourage volunteerism, go to it. Mandating it while not relating it to a subject is wrong.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

TN ---you and I see eye to eye 100% on this matter , I total agree with you.

 

[Montana Jim]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Thank you all for the banter... I agree that most of us meet in the middle.

I am however tired and will let this go.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

Good morning: You posted ->

"The college wants to encourage volunteerism, go to it. Mandating it while not relating it to a subject is wrong."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Odd, I cannot find anything that I disagree with there. he hehe

Don Jose de La Mancha

\

 

[ivan salis]

Re: compulsory volunteerism (required to pass ) "forced" labor vs 13th admendment

simplely put --to be asked nicely to "please" do something is one thing ( would ypu please volunteer to do something)---but --- to be told you WILL ("volunteer" your time to do something) or esle suffer for not doing it --is a very differant matter.