Couple of odd pieces

Charmin · Oct 9, 2009

Here's 3 odd pieces that I'm not sure what they are. The first piece almost looks like some type of effigy? It belonged to my grandpa and he found it while arrowhead hunting. Its made of a blackish material that has some pitting and is not very heavy.
The second two pieces have been worked around the edges--are these preforms of some type? I found the grey one and grandpa found the red one(on different gravel bars).
See what ya think~~
sandcreek

uniface · Oct 9, 2009

Those are interesting !!!!!!

Being as you're in Oklahoma, you want to be asking Neanderthal. Or hoping he'll check in for a visit and reply.

Charmin · Oct 9, 2009

uniface said:
Those are interesting !!!!!!

Being as you're in Oklahoma, you want to be asking Neanderthal. Or hoping he'll check in for a visit and reply.

Thanks uniface! I do hope Neanderthal sees these. I wonder if the pink(red) piece was at one time a point because it has flaking in both sides. It almost looks like the indian just took an older piece and knocked off all the edges and was getting ready to make another point out of it.
kind regards,
sandcreek

uniface · Oct 9, 2009

The oddest aspect of them is the edges, at least in places, are around 90 degrees to the faces of them.

Truly different. :icon_scratch:

Charmin · Oct 9, 2009

uniface said:
The oddest aspect of them is the edges, at least in places, are around 90 degrees to the faces of them.

Truly different.

The edges on these amaze me. They look like they've been put on a grinder and smoothed off--does that make sense? I had that one of grandpa's for years and when I found the grey one, I thought "wow!" this is just like his. And grandpa's came from a gravel bar about 20 miles from where mine was found. Here's a sideways view of them--You can see the smooth edges.

uniface · Oct 9, 2009

Now for the $64,000 question : can you find a little flat place somewhere on the side of each one where it was struck off the core ? The ripples on the bottom sides will expand outward from them, the way pond ripples do from pebbles.

If so, those could be VERY early indeed.

Th3rty7 · Oct 9, 2009

Interesting stuff Sandcreek. Those edges are weird, never seen anything like that really. Almost look like they were cut with a jigsaw.

Uniface, are you thinking Levallois technology here possibly? Detached flakes off a prepared nucleus or core.

Charmin · Oct 10, 2009

uniface said:
Now for the $64,000 question : can you find a little flat place somewhere on the side of each one where it was struck off the core ? The ripples on the bottom sides will expand outward from them, the way pond ripples do from pebbles.

If so, those could be VERY early indeed.

thirty7 said:
Interesting stuff Sandcreek. Those edges are weird, never seen anything like that really. Almost look like they were cut with a jigsaw.

Uniface, are you thinking Levallois technology here possibly? Detached flakes off a prepared nucleus or core.

Uniface and thirty7--I took some better pics in natural light, now see what ya think. (Sorry it took me so long to respond to your questions from last night!)
sandcreek

Charmin · Oct 10, 2009

more pics....

uniface · Oct 10, 2009

You were reading my mind, Thirty7 :laughing7:

Wish I were familiar enough with it to call those one way or the other.

Exceptional and fascinating pieces, either way :headbang:

Charmin · Oct 10, 2009

uniface said:
You were reading my mind, Thirty7

Wish I were familiar enough with it to call those one way or the other.

Exceptional and fascinating pieces, either way

There's an animated illustration of the "Lavallois" technique on Wikipedia. Here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levallois_technique
That would be really cool if that's what these things are :thumbsup:

. Thanks thirty7 and uniface for all your help with these things! You guys are awesome :hello:

. And I learned something new today and even how to pronounce it with the help of dictionary.com :read2:

........
kind regards,
sandcreek

uniface · Oct 10, 2009

Hi Sandcreek

That's a good illustration of one way the Levallois people made points. But they made a lot of other stuff as well, using roughly the same procedure. IF yours turn out to be from that stable, they'll be in the "other" category of it.

creek astronaut · Oct 10, 2009

not to burst anyones bubble.but just looks like a sliver of flint to me :thumbsup:

all_atv · Oct 12, 2009

Theres a similar rock in the "favorite hardstone" thread. Its like your odd 3 pointed one. Posted by blindpig.

Charmin · Oct 13, 2009

all_atv said:
Theres a similar rock in the "favorite hardstone" thread. Its like your odd 3 pointed one. Posted by blindpig.

Thanks all_atv :icon_thumright:

! I check that out.
kind regards,
sandcreek

Neanderthal · Oct 13, 2009

The black piece is natural. Ironstone & fused shale oddities like that are somewhat common on the river.

Both of the others are artifacts. The red piece is from a mid-section of a large bi-face, and they gray one from a ventral waste flake. Someone recently showed me a few tools from the Ark. that were fashioned in the same way - intentionally burined / cleaved edges forming a circular tool. I've seen others pop up, all from this area. The material is the same on both of them, Florence "A" (Kay Co. Chert). The red one is heated, the gray one is raw.

Charmin · Oct 13, 2009

Neanderthal said:
The black piece is natural. Ironstone & fused shale oddities like that are somewhat common on the river.

Both of the others are artifacts. The red piece is from a mid-section of a large bi-face, and they gray one from a ventral waste flake. Someone recently showed me a few tools from the Ark. that were fashioned in the same way - intentionally burined / cleaved edges forming a circular tool. I've seen others pop up, all from this area. The material is the same on both of them, Florence "A" (Kay Co. Chert). The red one is heated, the gray one is raw.

Thanks Matt! That's really nice to know that they are artifacts. My grandpa always wondered what the red one was and he would get it out and show it to everyone, but nobody knew for sure.
Mom said grandpa found it on a little creek that feeds into the Big Caney River.
He probably found the black piece on the same creek.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge with me!
kind regards,
sandcreek

naturegirl · Oct 13, 2009

Those are just awsome! Wow, and I would have wondered effigy of some sort too. Those are really unique.

naturegirl

Charmin · Oct 13, 2009

naturegirl said:
Those are just awsome! Wow, and I would have wondered effigy of some sort too. Those are really unique.

naturegirl

Thanks naturegirl! I guess grandpa must have wondered about the black thing too, or he wouldn't have kept it. Even though its natural, it still makes a cool display piece with some of his other things I have.
~~sandcreek~~

bravowhiskey · Oct 13, 2009

Hey Sandcreek,
Those effigies are the best. Really! Maybe abstract expressionist horses? Those early artist types may have been deeper than they are given credit for. Can you imagine an American Indian Beatnik type? :laughing9: