✅ SOLVED cut 1652 Oak Tree Shilling

[BigBobBow]

Hello folks. I found this cut piece a few years ago and had it placed with some other cut Spanish coins until recently I noticed it was different. I now know it is a 1652 Oak Tree Shilling. My quest is to find out more about it. What variety may it be? Should I get it authenticated? A fellow on another Forum(oxbowbarefoot) gave me some great insight on my piece. He stated it could possibly be a Noe 13.6 or 13.9 or even a 14. Upon this, looking at mine and seeing what those look like, it does seem to appear a match to the 13.6. Any thoughts?

 

[Silver Searcher]

Yes I have thoughts....send that little bugger to me. Very nice find

SS

 

[BigBobBow]

Your a funny guy Silver! Thanks

 

[Silver Searcher]

Your a funny guy Silver! Thanks

On a more serious not, I don't think you will have to much trouble die matching the cut quarter, there is a lot to match especially the HVS.... they stand out.

SS

 

[BigBobBow]

I hope to get a good I.D. I did notice the V has a line that crosses at the top right of it. Also, lining up the N and 16 seemed to narrow down a few dies. I really did laugh and liked your post Silver. Always good to have some humor along with the stats.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

I'm still pretty confident it is a NOE 14 Oak Tree.

Stack's - 1652 Massachusetts Bay Colony. Oak Tree Shilling. The Spiny Tree. N.14, Cr.7-B - The John J. Ford, Jr. Collection of Massachusetts Silver Coins - 1652 & 1662 Oak Tree Coins - Oak Tree Shillings - Noe 14 Oak Tree Shilling. Crosby 7-B.

 

[BigBobBow]

Does look like a match to me also Ox. Thanks again! Any idea on the number of 14's found or seen? just curious

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

I'm still pretty confident it is a NOE 14 Oak Tree.

Stack's - 1652 Massachusetts Bay Colony. Oak Tree Shilling. The Spiny Tree. N.14, Cr.7-B - The John J. Ford, Jr. Collection of Massachusetts Silver Coins - 1652 & 1662 Oak Tree Coins - Oak Tree Shillings - Noe 14 Oak Tree Shilling. Crosby 7-B.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

There is no real point to have it slabbed right away. Even if they would encapsulate it, it will only get a details grade. I too asked the same question when I found my cut Pine Tree and my Oak Tree Shilling. Many colonial coin collectors would rather be able to feel the coin in their hands than to hold a piece of hard plastic. When it comes to value, its minimum several hundred dollars. $1,000-$2,000 isn't out of the question if the right people are around. There are not a lot of pieces of cut Massachusetts silver that I have seen or heard of. Bill Ladd, Bill D., Silver Tree Chaser, myself and maybe one other person on T-net have posted found examples. There were several found in the wreck of the Feversham, see the link below for some really interesting info on cut Mass Silver.Mid-island coin club: A Malay Communist IssueHere is a cut Pine Tree Shilling that sold in 2008:Stack's : 1652 Massachusetts cut Pine Tree shilling. Originally Noe-5 or 6. AG-3 (AN06949230)

 

[BigBobBow]

Dang good info Ox. I will gladly just display it in my collection as it is.. whatever Noe it may be. I was told by a dealer once simply that these are rare. Glad to have joined this awesome site. Very interesting article on the wreck hoard.

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

There is no real point to have it slabbed right away. Even if they would encapsulate it, it will only get a details grade. I too asked the same question when I found my cut Pine Tree and my Oak Tree Shilling. Many colonial coin collectors would rather be able to feel the coin in their hands than to hold a piece of hard plastic. When it comes to value, its minimum several hundred dollars. $1,000-$2,000 isn't out of the question if the right people are around. There are not a lot of pieces of cut Massachusetts silver that I have seen or heard of. Bill Ladd, Bill D., Silver Tree Chaser, myself and maybe one other person on T-net have posted found examples. There were several found in the wreck of the Feversham, see the link below for some really interesting info on cut Mass Silver.Mid-island coin club: A Malay Communist IssueHere is a cut Pine Tree Shilling that sold in 2008:Stack's : 1652 Massachusetts cut Pine Tree shilling. Originally Noe-5 or 6. AG-3 (AN06949230)

Just thought I'd chime in and post mine since my name was mentioned. I dug this in 2009 at a 1600s site that had given up double digit colonial silver. I think I was told back then it might be a NOE-11, but can't remember for sure. If anyone has the time I'd appreciate if you could check that for me. Thanks!

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Bill, I believe Noe 11 is correct for your coin. Yours is clipped around the edges a bit more than the examples I saw, but there is enough detail for me to feel confident with Noe 11. This link has information on most of the known Massachusetts and New England Silvers:
Categories for Stack's October 2005 New York Auction

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

Bill, I believe Noe 11 is correct for your coin. Yours is clipped around the edges a bit more than the examples I saw, but there is enough detail for me to feel confident with Noe 11. This link has information on most of the known Massachusetts and New England Silvers:
Categories for Stack's October 2005 New York Auction

Thanks for your input Jason, and for that link. I'll definitely want to refer to it when I dig my first whole Mass. silver ..... haha. It definitely appears to be a NOE-11 pine tree shilling as you can see from the pic below. And it's definitely undergone some serious clipping around the edge. I thought it was a little small to be from a shilling, and that certainly explains why. Thanks again and HH ..... Bill

View attachment 906236

 

[Squatty]

What was the purpose for cutting coins up like this back in those days?

 

[G.A.P.metal]

to make change

 

[BigBobBow]

and I guess clipping edges was to steal some silver for later?

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

and I guess clipping edges was to steal some silver for later?

Exactly .....

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

What was the purpose for cutting coins up like this back in those days?

When copper coins or smaller denomination silver wasn't available, coins were cut to make change for small purchases. The practice was common in Europe in the days of hammered silver coinage. The most commonly cut coins in the US are the Spanish Milled Reales. The cross on those coins made cutting much more convenient. The cut pieces were known as "bits", sharp silver and frontier change. Finding cut pieces usually means that significant trade was conducted in the area and the chance of finding more coins is strong. An Oak or Pine Tree Shilling had a value of 12 pence, which would mean that the bits we have found were worth 2-3 pence apiece depending on how much they weighed.

 

[BigBobBow]

Got to love the information that is passed through on this site! Thanks again Ox for sharing your knowledge of what you know about these and other lost treasures. Keep posting!

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

Thanks for your input Jason, and for that link. I'll definitely want to refer to it when I dig my first whole Mass. silver ..... haha. It definitely appears to be a NOE-11 pine tree shilling as you can see from the pic below. And it's definitely undergone some serious clipping around the edge. I thought it was a little small to be from a shilling, and that certainly explains why. Thanks again and HH ..... Bill <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=906236"/>

Back in April, right after I found my cut pine tree, I said that I'd likely never find another Mass silver. A week later I was doing the Happy dance in the field again, so don't laugh off finding another! There's more Mass silver waiting for you to find it! Happy hunting