'Deadman's Island' map hoax and Cerris Francis' claims debunked

[Cryptid1990]

A user on this forum (Oak Island Sage) who has identified himself as the author Cerris Francis (Oak Island Treasure Revelations) has been repeatedly claiming that there exists a 17th century authentic treasure map drawn by Captain Kidd (or his shipmate John Ware) and the island depicted on this map is Oak Island. Francis has claimed this in several posts and repeats the claim in his book. He has further alleged that "experts" have authenticated the map by examining its handwriting and a signature by Kidd on the map.

Quote from the book (page 146 [Kindle Edition]):

A now deceased writer called Edward Lowe Snow collected all kinds of things pertaining to pirates, including old treasure maps; he purchased several from a New York dealer. One map, entitled The Deadmans Island Map, was so exciting that he hired experts who, after examining it, verified Lowe's own suspicions; it was indeed the authenticated handwriting and signature of Captain William Kidd. Edward Lowe Snow displayed the vital map signed by both John Ware and William Kidd, and it was illustrated in Life Magazine. Several more experts concurred that the handwriting was indisputably that of Captain Kidd himself. It’s something a handwriting expert today could verify. Personally speaking, I have no doubts at all. Edward Snow had no idea of where the island depicted on the old parchment map actually was. I sincerely believe it is Oak Island, and you can judge for yourself when I point out the important similarities.

A few of his posts:

I mean no offence but you are wrong, the Deadman Island map was genuinely drawn by the over confident Captain Kidd.

CaptGeorge, I don't know if you are referring to the China Sea map and The Deadman Island map, if you are but sorry they were definitely drawn by Captain William Kidd and/or John Ware.

One of his posts mentions "handwriting experts":

The Deadman Island map was examined and authenticated by handwriting experts who declared that it was definitely drawn by Captain William Kidd, it clearly reveals in his own handwriting that the Adventure Prize was taken there and it anchored in Joudary Cove.

He further claims Kidd's signature on the map has been authenticated as genuine by these same experts:

I have no intention arguing with you especially regarding the authenticity of Deadman's Island map, and William Kidd signature, as far as I and previous experts were concerned it is genuine

Francis' book contains the following map (Deadman's Island):

I decided to do some research and fact check his claims. It did not surprise me to learn, Oak Island Sage is demonstrably wrong about virtually everything he claims about this map.

The first thing to note is the map in Francis' book is not an image of an original map but a heavily embellished copy of a map on parchment Edward Rowe Snow claims he purchased from a New York dealer. The embellished map (see above) was drawn by Snow c. 1946 and contains "Edward Rowe Snow" as a copyright (bottom left).

(c) 1946 Edward Rowe Snow.

The reason Snow drew this map is the same year - H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy used it as a marketing gimmick to promote their dairy products. Buyers as a premium or mail-in item could get a copy of Snow's Deadman's Island map. At the same time, H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy sponsored a radio station show that aired on WNAC (Boston) called "Six Bells" narrated by Edward Rowe Snow.

H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy copied Snow's (1946) embellished map verbatim but printed it on brownish paper to give it the appearance of being centuries old.
The bottom right of the map reads:

"THIS TREASURE MAP IS PRESENTED TO YOU WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF H. P. HOOD & SONS DAIRY PRODUCTS SINCE 1846 SPONSORS OF 'SIX BELLS'"

Edward Rowe Snow's name also appears near the bottom (left) as a copyright.

A reproduction of the original (non-embellished) map can be found in the American news magazine LIFE (21 July 1952):

The original map on parchment Snow claims he bought from a New York Dealer:

As you can clearly see, Snow embellished the map for H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy in 1946 and added many features or details not on the original; he also changed some of the writing. For example, he altered the word "The [Main]" on the original map, to "Ye [Main]" (see right of map). He added a name to the island (not on the original map): Deadman's Island, as well as added a Jolly Roger flag and Captain Kidd's signature (near bottom right). He also added fictional pirate tropes to the map such as "X marks the spot" and changed the volcano on the main island to a hill; annotated "Lookout Hill".

The additions as embellishments by Snow such as pirate motifs (a mixture of fictional and historical) make sense since the map was used as a marketing gimmick by H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy.

Now turning to Oak Island Sage's specific claims (from his book):

A now deceased writer called Edward Lowe Snow collected all kinds of things pertaining to pirates, including old treasure maps; he purchased several from a New York dealer. One map, entitled The Deadmans Island Map, was so exciting that he [Edward Rowe Snow] hired experts who, after examining it, verified Lowe's [Rowe's] own suspicions; it was indeed the authenticated handwriting and signature of Captain William Kidd.

This claim is entirely unsourced. However, Sage in his book credits "Geoff Bath" (Gjb) as providing him a copy of the Deadman's Island map. If we then turn to Bath's (2013) book, to quote Snow:

Oak Island Sage has therefore misread what Snow actually said. Snow never claimed any experts examined the handwriting or signature on the original map on parchment. The latter is in fact impossible since the original map contains no signatures (see above). The William Kidd signature was added by Snow on his embellished map - it does not appear on the original. There is, however, handwriting (see top of map or below) and John Ware's initials J.W. Snow does not though state experts examined the handwriting including initials:

Here is what Snow actually said (quoted above in Gjb's book):

Experts are agreed as to the authenticity of the map because the original parchment in my possession is watermarked with an elephant, and thee is evidence that an old-fashioned quill was used to draw the map. The parchment quill and watermark date the map between 1660 and 1690, the period of Captain Kid[d]'s activity.

This is rather different to what Oak Island Sage has been falsely claiming. Snow did not get experts to examine the style of the handwriting. Instead, experts determined the parchment was authentic (17th century) based on a watermark found on the parchment and the fact ink on the parchment came from a quill. However, quills were commonly used up to the mid-19th century and they briefly were popular again in England in the early 20th century:

The short article “Quill Pens Again Popular In England”, Dec 6, 1919, p.40, says that steel nibs were scarce and high in price because of the steel shortage in the UK after WWI, and that quills, “such as were used a half century ago”, were again “enjoying a vogue in London”.

And When Did Quills Die Out?

[Posted on L&P on May 24 & 31, 2013.] Here are some articles and ads concerning the late use of quills. The best evidence t...

fountainpenhistory.blogspot.com

The fact the parchment has a watermark does not exclude the possibility that while the parchment dates to the 17th century, the map drawing and handwriting dates centuries later. Indeed, forgers or hoaxers often use old parchments to pass-off fake treasure maps as authentic, so we should not expect modern paper. As an example, we know the Kidd-Palmer maps are an early 20th century hoax, but at least one of these maps was drawn on an early 18th century parchment. Therefore the map on the parchment in Snow's possession could have easily been drawn in the early 20th century. This is very probable when it is realised, that Snow did not ask an expert to examine the style of the handwriting (Oak Island Sage made that up) and the provenance of the map cannot be traced before the 1940s. Snow claims he purchased it from a New York dealer and that it came from the estate of the Duke of Portland. This is dubious at best and is not verifiable.

Continuing from Oak Island's Sage's comment:

Edward Lowe Snow displayed the vital map signed by both John Ware and William Kidd, and it was illustrated in Life Magazine. Several more experts concurred that the handwriting was indisputably that of Captain Kidd himself. It’s something a handwriting expert today could verify. Personally speaking, I have no doubts at all.

More falsehoods. The map on parchment does not contain Kidd's signature (as noted Kidd's signature only appears on Snow's embellished map) nor does it even include John Ware's (only his initials). Snow did not ask any expert to examine the handwriting on the map. Oak Island Sage misread what Snow said (see above for the quotation in Gjb's book). That leaves us with Oak Island Sage's statement:

It’s something a handwriting expert today could verify.

This is amusing since I asked an expert in palaeography to look at the style of handwriting (and wording) on the map on parchment:

• The lowercase letters appear in a style most resembling late Victorian to early twentieth-century penmanship.
• Capital letters such as A and P look relatively modern in form.
• The P in Prize closely resembles forms taught in Edwardian handwriting manuals (1901-1910).
• With some letters and wording the writer was seemingly trying to imitate an older script.

The expert I asked concluded that late 19th to early 20th century (1880–1930) is the strongest stylistic match for the handwriting.

Furthermore, the parchment map appears to have borrowed from or at least been inspired by the map in Treasure Island (1883). I touched upon this in an earlier comment:

• Anchorage symbol appears on both maps in the same place i.e., north inlet.
• Stevenson's map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "foul place". The parchment map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "Booby island".

These independent lines of evidence (lack of provenance of the map before the early 20th century, handwriting style being 1880-1930s, map sharing features with Treasure Island) converge and strongly point to the map being a hoax. Furthermore, there is not a shred of historical evidence Captain Kidd or John Ware traveled to Oak Island.

Finally, Oak Island Sage states:

Edward Snow had no idea of where the island depicted on the old parchment map actually was. I sincerely believe it is Oak Island, and you can judge for yourself when I point out the important similarities.

In reality, the parchment map has nothing to do with Oak Island and does not remotely resemble Oak Island.

Will Oak Island Sage retract the falsehoods in his book Oak Island Treasure Revelations and acknowledge the parchment map is a hoax?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

A user on this forum (Oak Island Sage) who has identified himself as the author Cerris Francis (Oak Island Treasure Revelations) has been repeatedly claiming that there exists a 17th century authentic treasure map drawn by Captain Kidd (or his shipmate John Ware) and the island depicted on this map is Oak Island. Francis has claimed this in several posts and repeats the claim in his book. He has further alleged that "experts" have authenticated the map by examining its handwriting and a signature by Kidd on the map.

Quote from the book (page 146 [Kindle Edition]):

A few of his posts:


One of his posts mentions "handwriting experts":

He further claims Kidd's signature on the map has been authenticated as genuine by these same experts:

Francis' book contains the following map (Deadman's Island):

View attachment 2255670

I decided to do some research and fact check his claims. It did not surprise me to learn, Oak Island Sage is demonstrably wrong about virtually everything he claims about this map.

The first thing to note is the map in Francis' book is not an image of an original map but a heavily embellished copy of a map on parchment Edward Rowe Snow claims he purchased from a New York dealer. The embellished map (see above) was drawn by Snow c. 1946 and contains "Edward Rowe Snow" as a copyright (bottom left).

View attachment 2255676
(c) 1946 Edward Rowe Snow.

The reason Snow drew this map is the same year - H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy used it as a marketing gimmick to promote their dairy products. Buyers as a premium or mail-in item could purchase a copy of Snow's Deadman's Island map. At the same time, H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy sponsored a radio station show that aired on WNAC (Boston) called "Six Bells" narrated by Edward Rowe Snow.

H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy copied Snow's (1946) embellished map verbatim but printed it on brownish paper to give it the appearance of being centuries old.
The bottom right of the map reads:

"THIS TREASURE MAP IS PRESENTED TO YOU WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF H. P. HOOD & SONS DAIRY PRODUCTS SINCE 1846 SPONSORS OF 'SIX BELLS'"

Edward Rowe Snow's name also appears near the bottom (left) as a copyright.

View attachment 2255679

A reproduction of the original (non-embellished) map can be found in the American news magazine LIFE (21 July 1952):
View attachment 2255677
The original map on parchment Snow claims he bought from a New York Dealer:

View attachment 2255678

As you can clearly see, Snow embellished the map for H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy in 1946 and added many features or details not on the original; he also changed some of the writing. For example, he altered the word "The [Main]" on the original map, to "Ye [Main]" (see right of map). He added a name to the island (not on the original map): Deadman's Island, as well as added a Jolly Roger flag and Captain Kidd's signature (near bottom right). He also added fictional pirate tropes to the map such as "X marks the spot" and changed the volcano on the main island to a hill; annotated "Lookout Hill".

The additions as embellishments by Snow such as pirate motifs (a mixture of fictional and historical) make sense since the map was used as a marketing gimmick by H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy.

Now turning to Oak Island Sage's specific claims (from his book):


This claim is entirely unsourced. However, Sage in his book credits "Geoff Bath" (Gjb) as providing him a copy of the Deadman's Island map. If we then turn to Bath's (2013) book, to quote Snow:

View attachment 2255719

Oak Island Sage has therefore misread what Snow actually said. Snow never claimed any experts examined the handwriting or signature on the original map on parchment. The latter is in fact impossible since the original map contains no signatures (see above). The William Kidd signature was added by Snow on his embellished map - it does not appear on the original. There is, however, handwriting (see top of map or below) and John Ware's initials J.W. Snow does not though state experts examined the handwriting including initials:

View attachment 2255721
Here is what Snow actually said (quoted above in Gjb's book):

This is rather different to what Oak Island Sage has been falsely claiming. Snow did not get experts to examine the style of the handwriting. Instead, experts determined the parchment was authentic (17th century) based on a watermark found on the parchment and the fact ink on the parchment came from a quill. However, quills were commonly used up to the mid-19th century and they briefly were popular again in England in the early 20th century:

And When Did Quills Die Out?

[Posted on L&P on May 24 & 31, 2013.] Here are some articles and ads concerning the late use of quills. The best evidence t...

fountainpenhistory.blogspot.com

The fact the parchment has a watermark does not exclude the possibility that while the parchment dates to the 17th century, the map drawing and handwriting dates centuries later. Indeed, forgers or hoaxers often use old parchments to pass-off fake treasure maps as authentic, so we should not expect modern paper. As an example, we know the Kidd-Palmer maps are an early 20th century hoax, but at least one of these maps was drawn on an early 18th century parchment. Therefore the map on the parchment in Snow's possession could have easily been drawn in the early 20th century. This is very probable when it is realised, that Snow did not ask an expert to examine the style of the handwriting (Oak Island Sage made that up) and the provenance of the map cannot be traced before the 1940s. Snow claims he purchased it from a New York dealer and that it came from the estate of the Duke of Portland. This is dubious at best and is not verifiable.

Continuing from Oak Island's Sage's comment:

More falsehoods. The map on parchment does not contain Kidd's signature (as noted Kidd's signature only appears on Snow's embellished map) nor does it even include John Ware's (only his initials). Snow did not ask any expert to examine the handwriting on the map. Oak Island Sage misread what Snow said (see above for the quotation in Gjb's book). That leaves us with Oak Island Sage's statement:


This is amusing since I asked an expert in palaeography to look at the style of handwriting (and wording) on the map on parchment:

• The lowercase letters appear in a style most resembling late Victorian to early twentieth-century penmanship.
• Capital letters such as A and P look relatively modern in form.
• The P in Prize closely resembles forms taught in Edwardian handwriting manuals (1901-1910).
• With some letters and wording the writer was seemingly trying to imitate an older script.

The expert I asked concluded that late 19th to early 20th century (1880–1930) is the strongest stylistic match for the handwriting.

Furthermore, the parchment map appears to have borrowed from or at least been inspired by the map in Treasure Island (1883). I touched upon this in an earlier comment:

• Anchorage symbol appears on both maps in the same place i.e., north inlet.
• Stevenson's map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "foul place". The parchment map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "Booby island".

These independent lines of evidence (lack of provenance of the map beyond 1940s, handwriting style being 1880-1930s, map sharing features with Treasure Island) all point to the map being a hoax. Furthermore, there is not a shred of historical evidence Captain Kidd or John Ware traveled to Oak Island.

Finally, Oak Island Sage states:

In reality, the parchment map has nothing to do with Oak Island and does not remotely resemble Oak Island.

Will Oak Island Sage retract the falsehoods in his book Oak Island Treasure Revelations and acknowledge the parchment map is a ho

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Hi Cryptid1090, you can try all your nasty little tricks but they cut no ice with me sun, no I didn't miss spell sun, it's just that you seem to think the world revolves around you. 😆

The original Deadman Island with the scull and cross bones flag has Kidd's Genuine signature beneath it and was also signed by John Ware. I have also identified the place he refers to as "Ye Mainland" where "Spaniards Cut Logwood" , it lies several miles away across Mahone Bay, I have been sailed all along that coast line there have you? no! why doesn't that surprise me.

I have no idea who may have later altered the original Deadman Island map or for what purpose, nor do I care much, it is genuine and I find all your banal protest and attempts at discrediting me funny.
Have you ever been sailing around Mahone bay? you know the place where Oak Island is actually located, no! well I have and walked across it by invitation, all you do is sit on your butt by your computer and use A I.
Have you ever seen the Secret Jetty in Joudary Cove on Oak Island, you know the one depicted on Captain Kidd's Deadman Island map and other maps described as "the anchorage", yes and it's also depicted on the China Sea map and that must annoy you. A picture of that Jetty is shown in my book, you know the one that you claim to have purchased, what! you haven't personally seen that jetty, well buddy I have and I took the picture.

Sadly I'll have to leave you seething in your Walter Mitty sort of world because quite frankly Cryptid 1990 I find trying enlighten you is essentially a trivial pursuit.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptid1090, you can try all your nasty little tricks but they cut no ice with me sun, no I didn't miss spell sun, it's just that you seem to think the world revolves around you. 😆

The original Deadman Island with the scull and cross bones flag has Kidd's Genuine signature beneath it and was also signed by John Ware. I have also identified the place he refers to as "Ye Mainland" where "Spaniards Cut Logwood" , it lies several miles away across Mahone Bay, I have been sailed all along that coast line there have you? no! why doesn't that surprise me.

I have no idea who may have later altered the original Deadman Island map or for what purpose, nor do I care much, it is genuine and I find all your banal protest and attempts at discrediting me funny.
Have you ever been sailing around Mahone bay? you know the place where Oak Island is actually located, no! well I have and walked across it by invitation, all you do is sit on your butt by your computer and use A I.
Have you ever seen the Secret Jetty in Joudary Cove on Oak Island, you know the one depicted on Captain Kidd's Deadman Island map and other maps described as "the anchorage", yes and it's also depicted on the China Sea map and that must annoy you. A picture of that Jetty is shown in my book, you know the one that you claim to have purchased, what! you haven't personally seen that jetty, well buddy I have and I took the picture.

Sadly I'll have to leave you seething in your Walter Mitty sort of world because quite frankly Cryptid 1990 I find trying enlighten you is essentially a trivial pursuit.

Oak Island Sage

The map you are falsely claiming has a "genuine signature" of Kidd and John Ware on it was drawn in 1946 by Edward Rowe Snow and was used by H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy as a marketing gimmick to promote their dairy products. Buyers as a premium or mail-in item could purchase a copy of Snow's Deadman's Island map from H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy -

Read the text at the bottom of the map:

"THIS TREASURE MAP IS PRESENTED TO YOU WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF
H. P. HOOD & SONS DAIRY PRODUCTS SINCE 1846 SPONSORS OF 'SIX BELLS'"

Edward Rowe Snow also added a copyright to the Deadman's Island map he drew:

(c) 1946 Edward Rowe Snow.

It is quite frankly ludicrous you are claiming a map drawn in 1946 that contains a copyright notice by who drew it (Edward Rowe Snow) and was a premium or mail-in item advertised on the back of a milk carton box (or another dairy product) is an authentic pirate map from the 17th century signed by Captain Kidd.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

The map you are falsely claiming has a "genuine signature" of Kidd and John Ware on it was drawn in 1946 by Edward Rowe Snow and was used by H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy as a marketing gimmick to promote their dairy products. Buyers as a premium or mail-in item could purchase a copy of Snow's Deadman's Island map from H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy -

View attachment 2255770
Read the text at the bottom of the map:

"THIS TREASURE MAP IS PRESENTED TO YOU WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF
H. P. HOOD & SONS DAIRY PRODUCTS SINCE 1846 SPONSORS OF 'SIX BELLS'"

Edward Rowe Snow also added a copyright to the Deadman's Island map he drew:

View attachment 2255771
(c) 1946 Edward Rowe Snow.

It is quite frankly ludicrous you are claiming a map drawn in 1946 that contains a copyright notice by who drew it (Edward Rowe Snow) and was a premium or mail-in item advertised on the back of a milk carton box (or another dairy product) is an authentic pirate map from the 17th century signed by Captain Kidd.

The map you are falsely claiming has a "genuine signature" of Kidd and John Ware on it was drawn in 1946 by Edward Rowe Snow and was used by H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy as a marketing gimmick to promote their dairy products. Buyers as a premium or mail-in item could purchase a copy of Snow's Deadman's Island map from H. P. Hood and Sons Dairy -

View attachment 2255770
Read the text at the bottom of the map:

"THIS TREASURE MAP IS PRESENTED TO YOU WITH THE COMPLIMENTS OF
H. P. HOOD & SONS DAIRY PRODUCTS SINCE 1846 SPONSORS OF 'SIX BELLS'"

Edward Rowe Snow also added a copyright to the Deadman's Island map he drew:

View attachment 2255771
(c) 1946 Edward Rowe Snow.

It is quite frankly ludicrous you are claiming a map drawn in 1946 that contains a copyright notice by who drew it (Edward Rowe Snow) and was a premium or mail-in item advertised on the back of a milk carton box (or another dairy product) is an authentic pirate map from the 17th century signed by Captain Kidd.

Hi Cryptd 1990, if someone comes into possession of a letter or map that was written in say 1699 he or she can copywrite it without being the original author, that's is what Mr Snow did. and any present owners don't have anything to do with who originally drew the Deadman Island map, I find your illogic protestations pathetic. As the saying goes "Birds of a feather flock together" so I'm not surprised to see Crow support you.
In my book I have noted similarities between The Dead Man Island map and Oak Island they are as follows,.
1/ On the Dead Man Island map (which was drawn and signed by Captain Kidd) he depicts a triangular pond and at the apex he drew a fresh water stream that runs north down through a wetland area to an anchorage in a bay.
2/ In say 1960 on Oak Island in the mid section with a Satellite picture you can plainly see the following. A triangular pond, at the Apex a fresh water stream that runs down to the north though a swampy area to Joudary Cove where the secret Jetty anchorage is still located. The surrounding islands have different names now but they are still there, "Booby island" try "Apple Island" today.
Like the place where the Spaniards cut Logwood and the Memorial Stone to Captain Kidd by the Mira River on Cape Breton Island, everything is still there if you wish go and see.

As they say in Tennis, I believe that is called - game set and match.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Carl-NC]

if someone comes into possession of a letter or map that was written in say 1699 he or she can copywrite it without being the original author

That is not just wrong, it is absolutely wrong.

 

[Cryptid1990]

Hi Cryptd 1990, if someone comes into possession of a letter or map that was written in say 1699 he or she can copywrite it without being the original author, that's is what Mr Snow did.

No he did not, furthermore, Snow distinguished the original parchment to the map he made in 1946 and copyrighted using his name.

A reproduction of the original parchment map is found in LIFE magazine:

Notice this map is not the map with Deadman's Island written on it. In your book you confused these maps:

Edward Lowe Snow displayed the vital map signed by both John Ware and William Kidd, and it was illustrated in Life Magazine.

Look at the image above. The map does not contain the signatures of John Ware or Kidd or have Deadman's Island written on it.

One is the original (parchment map), the other is Snow's map he embellished by adding the signatures, a Jolly Roger flag and the name Deadman's Island, in 1946. Instead you confused these maps and did not bother fact-checking.

When will you admit your blunder and the fact you have been proven wrong about nearly everything?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

No he did not, furthermore, Snow distinguished the original parchment to the map he made in 1946 and copyrighted using his name.

A reproduction of the original parchment map is found in LIFE magazine:

View attachment 2255966

Notice this map is not the map with Deadman's Island written on it. In your book you confused these maps:


Look at the image above. The map does not contain the signatures of John Ware or Kidd or have Deadman's Island written on it.

One is the original (parchment map), the other is Snow's map he embellished by adding the signatures, a Jolly Roger flag and the name Deadman's Island, in 1946. Instead you confused these maps and did not bother fact-checking.

When will you admit your blunder and the fact you have been proven wrong about nearly everything?

The answer is simple, now do try to concentrate, the Deadman Island map (the one actually shown in my book) was the one signed by Captain William Kidd and John Ware, it was the Scottish Privateers improved version of John's rough map. Now where have you heard that before, it was on carved on a drinking cup.
You have only ever proven me wrong to your own personal delusional satisfaction, and that just don't cut it buddy.
Apart from sniping with your futile attempts at under mining other peoples theories, what have you personally contributed to the saga, zilch is the answer to that.

Regarding the Deadman Island Map, what evidence/proof to our satisfaction (not just your priceless opinion) do you offer us, it's time to stand up and be counted. If you cannot (or will not) comply with this request you should remember what Confucius said quote, "A closed mouth catches no flies." In reality all you have ever 'proven' to the public is that as Jack aptly put it, "you can't handle the truth". In conclusion, the Deadman Island map was drawn and signed by Captain William Kidd and nothing you can do or say will alter that.

Third time of asking. Have you ever written your own published book?

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

The answer is simple, now do try to concentrate, the Deadman Island map (the one actually shown in my book) was the one signed by Captain William Kidd and John Ware, it was the Scottish Privateers improved version of John's rough map. Now where have you heard that before, it was on carved on a drinking cup.
You have only ever proven me wrong to your own personal delusional satisfaction, and that just don't cut it buddy.
Apart from sniping with your futile attempts at under mining other peoples theories, what have you personally contributed to the saga, zilch is the answer to that.

Regarding the Deadman Island Map, what evidence/proof to our satisfaction (not just your priceless opinion) do you offer us, it's time to stand up and be counted. If you cannot (or will not) comply with this request you should remember what Confucius said quote, "A closed mouth catches no flies." In reality all you have ever 'proven' to the public is that as Jack aptly put it, "you can't handle the truth". In conclusion, the Deadman Island map was drawn and signed by Captain William Kidd and nothing you can do or say will alter that.

Third time of asking. Have you ever written your own published book?

Oak Island Sage

I am not sure how I can further respond when you have been repeatedly proven wrong but will not admit it. You remind me of a flat-earther I once debated. Anyone can read your book to see the falsehoods I have highlighted above e.g., you falsely claim that the map in LIFE (magazine) was "signed by both John Ware and William Kidd" despite if you check the magazine this is demonstrably untrue:

This is from a page in the LIFE (magazine) issue. There are no signatures on this map.

The signatures of John Ware and William Kidd were added with a Jolly Roger flag (bottom left) by Edward Rowe Snow in 1946:

The original map did not have any signatures on it nor the Jolly Roger flag nor 'Deadman's Island'. Those were all added by Snow.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I am not sure how I can further respond when you have been repeatedly proven wrong but will not admit it. You remind me of a flat-earther I once debated. Anyone can read your book to see the falsehoods I have highlighted above e.g., you falsely claim that the map in LIFE (magazine) was "signed by both John Ware and William Kidd" despite if you check the magazine this is demonstrably untrue:

View attachment 2256131
This is from a page in the LIFE (magazine) issue. There are no signatures on this map.

The signatures of John Ware and William Kidd were added with a Jolly Roger flag (bottom left) by Edward Rowe Snow in 1946:

View attachment 2256132

The original map did not have any signatures on it nor the Jolly Roger flag nor 'Deadman's Island'. Those were all added by Snow.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

It is fortuitous for you that Mr Snow is not around today to see your accusations of fraud, however, on his behalf I will ask you to now name the hand writing expert who verified that the Signature on the Deadman Island map was that of Edward Lowe Snow and not William Kidd.

The rough version you have shown was certainly not the last one in question and of course it was not signed, it may have been John's Wares, initial rough map.
The signed and dated Deadman Island version that was signed by Captain Kidd is the important one. Mr Snow had no idea where the island was located but it contained a lot of information that is easily checked on today.

A satellite picture taken in the forties will show that Oak Island once had a triangular shaped pond, and a fresh water stream ran to the north down though a swamp to a bay with and old anchorage, that is exactly what it says on the signed map.
On the map Kidd drew what he called "Booby Island" located at the south east corner at the precise spot today where today the tiny island is called "Apple Island", what Kidd described as "Goats Rock" to the south west is now called "Round Island" the bigger island he drew to the north east is now called "Frog Island" and it's located at the precise spot drawn on (the signed and dated) map by Captain William Kidd.
All I ask for people to do is look for themselves, and don't just be swayed by someone who makes false unsubstantiated claims, often as a egotistical adaptation of whatever he can find because in the final analysis that's really all he's got to offer.
He keeps saying that he has proven something, his personal endorsement is not something that should be considered to be a reliable fact, or to put it another way "It ain't necessarily so"

For the forth time of asking you Cryptid1990, Have you ever written a published book yourself.
Oak Island Sage

 

[Carl-NC]

For the forth time of asking you Cryptid1990, Have you ever written a published book yourself.

I've written two books. Can you explain how that is relevant?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

I've written two books. Can you explain how that is relevant?

Carl-NC, yes I can, but as my post was/are specifically directed at Crypted1990 and not you it is my prerogative not to. I await with interest his reply to my last post to him.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Carl-NC]

Carl-NC, yes I can, but as my post was/are specifically directed at Crypted1990 and not you it is my prerogative not to. I await with interest his reply to my last post to him.

Well, I agree with his analysis. He has very effectively poked all kinds of holes in your "facts and probabilities," as have numerous others. Because I've written a book, does that make my input more valid than Mr. Smith's? Funny thing is, I've written a non-fiction book, whereas you have not.

Increasingly, these are your defenses:

• If you haven't written a book, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't been to Oak Island, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't seen things with your own eyes on Oak Island, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't met Dan Blankenship, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't sailed around Mahone Bay, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't been offered a contract with the producers of COOI, your opinion is worthless.

Argument by authority doesn't play well around here.

BTW, you never responded to this blatantly wrong gem:

if someone comes into possession of a letter or map that was written in say 1699 he or she can copywrite it without being the original author

Care to defend that statement? And, yes, I have a fair amount of experience filing and defending copyrights.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Well, I agree with his analysis. He has very effectively poked all kinds of holes in your "facts and probabilities," as have numerous others. Because I've written a book, does that make my input more valid than Mr. Smith's? Funny thing is, I've written a non-fiction book, whereas you have not.

Increasingly, these are your defenses:

• If you haven't written a book, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't been to Oak Island, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't seen things with your own eyes on Oak Island, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't met Dan Blankenship, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't sailed around Mahone Bay, your opinion is worthless.
• If you haven't been offered a contract with the producers of COOI, your opinion is worthless.

Argument by authority doesn't play well around here.

BTW, you never responded to this blatantly wrong gem:

Care to defend that statement? And, yes, I have a fair amount of experience filing and defending copyrights.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Carl-NC. In the first place I have already conceded that I was wrong regarding the copywrite process so you can forget that subject.

If you feel that he or someone else has poked holes in my facts and probabilities that is merely your own opinion, and perhaps you can show me on any of my post here or in my book where I have said someone else's theory or opinion is Worthless, that is simple not true. Your support for Crypit1990 is admirable but please get you remarks about me right.
Regarding your remark that "argument by authority doesn't play well around here" I couldn't agree more. This is because a researcher here can make claims and present theories as proven fact because they have a supporter like you to back their play.
It is true that I place more value on the opinion of someone who has been to Oak Island and seen things with their own eyes, and/or have met and spoken with various treasure hunters. Not someone thousands of miles away in front of a computer who proclaims that something is proven when in reality it is merely his opinion.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Carl-NC]

In the first place I have already conceded that I was wrong regarding the copywrite process so you can forget that subject.

Glad to hear. I did not see any such concession in your 3 subsequent posts. But I'm sure it was there, somewhere.

perhaps you can show me on any of my post here or in my book where I have said someone else's theory or opinion is Worthless

It's implied every time you ask how many books they've published, or whether they've ever been to OI, or whether they've personally spoken with Blankenship, or...
You are implying they cannot possibly know what they are talking about, whereas you do.

Now, let's assume Cryptid1990 says, "I have not written a published book." What is your response to that?

 

[Oak Island Sage]

Glad to hear. I did not see any such concession in your 3 subsequent posts. But I'm sure it was there, somewhere.


It's implied every time you ask how many books they've published, or whether they've ever been to OI, or whether they've personally spoken with Blankenship, or...
You are implying they cannot possibly know what they are talking about, whereas you do.

Now, let's assume Cryptid1990 says, "I have not written a published book." What is your response to that?

Hi Carl-NC. you use the word implied which in this case your stated opinion is based merely on your own suggestion of something I have said. You also write "let's assume", no thank you, I'll leave that further speculation to you.

Let me ask you a question if someone made false defamatory remarks about you and put them in the public domain what would be your own response?

This 'gentleman' Cryptid1990 has besmirched the reputation and memory of a deceased fine writer, he then publicly questions my integrity, so no it is his response to my last post to him that I require - not yours.

Oak Island Sage

 

[Cryptid1990]

It is fortuitous for you that Mr Snow is not around today to see your accusations of fraud, however, on his behalf I will ask you to now name the hand writing expert who verified that the Signature on the Deadman Island map was that of Edward Lowe Snow and not William Kidd.

There never was a handwriting expert who verified signatures. In your book you falsely claim:

...it was indeed the authenticated handwriting and signature of Captain William Kidd

At best, you misread what Snow said (who is quoted in Geoff Bath's book and you credit Bath in your own book for "kindly provided me with a copy of the 'Deadmans Island' map"), so he was obviously the source you were relying on); worse, you made it up.

Here is what Snow actually said (as quoted by Bath):

I already quoted part of this:

Experts are agreed as to the authenticity of the map because the original parchment in my possession is watermarked with an elephant, and there is evidence that an old-fashioned quill was used to draw the map. The parchment quill and watermark date the map between 1660 and 1690, the period of Captain Kid[d]'s activity.

Zero mention of signatures or handwriting being examined, let alone authenticated. Experts only agreed to the authenticity of the original parchment as 17th century because of a watermark, and Snow mentioned the ink was from a quill (however, quills were still used in the early 20th century, notably because of a steel shortage after WW1 that temporarily declined production of steel nib pens).

As I explained above:

The fact the parchment has a watermark does not exclude the possibility that while the parchment dates to the 17th century, the map drawing and handwriting dates centuries later. Indeed, forgers or hoaxers often use old parchments to pass-off fake treasure maps as authentic, so we should not expect modern paper.

I then provided compelling evidence the map (the original parchment) was drawn in the late 19th/early 20th century:

I asked an expert in palaeography to look at the style of handwriting (and wording) on the map on parchment:

• The lowercase letters appear in a style most resembling late Victorian to early twentieth-century penmanship.
• Capital letters such as A and P look relatively modern in form.
• The P in Prize closely resembles forms taught in Edwardian handwriting manuals (1901-1910).
• With some letters and wording the writer was seemingly trying to imitate an older script.

The expert I asked concluded that late 19th to early 20th century (1880–1930) is the strongest stylistic match for the handwriting.

Furthermore, the parchment map appears to have borrowed from or at least been inspired by the map in Treasure Island (1883). I touched upon this in an earlier comment:

• Anchorage symbol appears on both maps in the same place i.e., north inlet.
• Stevenson's map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "foul place". The parchment map has a small island off the southeastern coast named "Booby island".

So to summarise:

1. The original parchment map (which contains no signatures of Kidd/Ware) was drawn between 1883-1930, albeit on a 17th century parchment. The hoaxer used an old parchment to try to pass-off the map as authentic.
2. The Deadman Island map which is an embellished version of the parchment map was drawn by Edward Rowe Snow in 1946.

 

[Oak Island Sage]

There never was a handwriting expert who verified signatures. In your book you falsely claim:



At best, you misread what Snow said (who is quoted in Geoff Bath's book and you credit Bath in your own book for "kindly provided me with a copy of the 'Deadmans Island' map"), so he was obviously the source you were relying on); worse, you made it up.

Here is what Snow actually said (as quoted by Bath):

View attachment 2256469

I already quoted part of this:



Zero mention of signatures or handwriting being examined, let alone authenticated. Experts only agreed to the authenticity of the original parchment as 17th century because of a watermark, and Snow mentioned the ink was from a quill (however, quills were still used in the early 20th century, notably because of a steel shortage after WW1 that temporarily declined production of steel nib pens).

As I explained above:



I then provided compelling evidence the map (the original parchment) was drawn in the late 19th/early 20th century:


So to summarise:

1. The original parchment map (which contains no signatures of Kidd/Ware) was drawn between 1883-1930, albeit on a 17th century parchment. The hoaxer used an old parchment to try to pass-off the map as authentic.
2. The Deadman Island map which is an embellished version of the parchment map was drawn by Edward Rowe Snow 1946.

Cryptid1990, you are totally wrong, the Deadman Island map was drawn and signed by Captain William Kidd in 1699 and it contains surrounding islands that are still there today and in the same precise positions as depicted on the map, and they are called by different modern names now. "Ye Mainland" depicted on the map refers to the coast line that runs from Meisner Point right up north to the East River area. This place called Meisner Point is (where as stated on the map) "Spaniards cut logwood", it lies ten miles to the east of Oak Island directly across Mahone Bay, Oak Island is a mile long so measure it out and go see for yourself on a Google map. This finally conclusively completely authenticates the map as the last signed and dated map drawn by Captain Kidd in 1699.

As Mr Snow stated clearly that he had no idea where the island was located, so how could he know that these things and places even existed, try and answer that. How could Mr Snow possible know about the things drawn on the Deadman Island map itself (like the triangular pond, the fresh water stream that run north down from the apex though a swamp to a cove and an anchorage), each thing were found to actually exist in precisely the same positions on Oak Island, no Mr Snow didn't fake anything and it would appear that you have besmirched his memory for nothing.

You haven't yet named your mysterious expert in palaeography but if he actually exist what did he say specifically with regards to the clear signature of Captain William Kidd, it's on the dated 1699 Deadman Island map that he and John Ware signed?

A professional expert in palaeography should be able to read the letters (available in the public domain) that are well known to have been genuinely written by Captain Kidd, and he is then able to ascertain by comparison if the signature and writing on the signed Deadman Island map was done by Captain Kidd. Stylistic letter matches etc just don't cut it, a hand writing comparison by a genuine professional expert in palaeography is required.

As for some unknown person altering an old map, it proves nothing, anybody can cover up something on a map with white water colour paint then copy it and then falsely present that as the original version, that is if they are totally devoid of integrity.

For the fifth time of asking, Have you ever written a published book yourself.

Oak Island Sage