Detecting and Police Visits

[Tom_in_CA]

... ALL the times the police were called I was DIVING. It has absolutely nothing to do with metal detecting.....

Re.: what atomiscott said: A part of me sympathizes with what he's posted. When it comes to turf md'ing, where "holes" are the automatic connotation (that busy-body lookie -lous can infer), then YES: a Minimalist objective is wise. Eg.: pick low traffic times. Endeavor not to be visible, etc... Ie.: why swat hornet's nests? It will boil down to a semantic's battle of whether or not you "altered" or "defaced".

But your 20 encounters were not of that type. You might have been md'ing down there at the bottom of the lake, but it (or "holes" or whatever) were not the issue in the encounters of your story.

Good thread.

 

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[Honest Samuel]

If harass by the police, take down their badge number and report them to the police chief. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[ScubaDetector]

When I am approached by cops, I simply pack up & move on. Sure it pisses me off, but by arguing with LEO, you only ruin things for other detectorists. Keep pushing it & then see how you feel when there is a large sign posted 'No Metal Detecting' at your favorite spot. It is a hobby, not a federal case. Move on, and like Terry says, find a less populated site if you do not want to be bothered. If I saw a guy in a lake at dusk with a flashlight, or someone on my street at night that I normally don't see, that would raise my suspicions (as it would most people). Ask yourself, would you want your daughter swimming in a lake with a stranger metal detecting? Why not let the swimmers enjoy their time & pick another time to dive. Use common sense when detecting, not knowledge of the law & knowing how far you can push it.

That lake in particular I drove over an hour and a half to get to. One dive I found 3 walkers in it. Another 6 gold rings. When I drive that far I use two to three tanks. Each tank lasts me 3 hours. MOST the kids are in shallow water, However there is a swim platform out deep that the older ones swim to. I NEVER play in shallow water when anybody is there. Only first thing in the morning from 5am - 8 am. I then go deeper and enjoy the water. NOBODY swims out that deep and stays in the water. They get on the platform. When school is out they are swimming from morning to evening. The issue WAS, EVERYONE thought it was a private lake. The millionaires refused to let a guy from Port Huron with a beat up truck park on their street. THAT was what ALL the calls were about. The last time they were called 2 Sgt's and one officer showed up. They told EVERYONE in the park I was within my rights and the next person that called would be cited for harassment. The calls stopped. I am welcome there now. The park manager made it clear to everyone in the association I was legal in his newsletter. Nobody has bothered me since. In fact, I get along with everyone now and am accepted. I posted the story so people might know what to do in similar situations.

I was not even in front of the swim area a lot of the time. I was to the right of it. It didn't matter to them. I was in their lake.

I was unemployed and living off my finds. Driving all around and wasting gas was not an option. Being bullied by millionaires was also not an option. They were finally educated. I was not embarrassed, I was not rude, however I also was not pushed around.

 

[G.I.B.]

There are major differences between;

Arguing with the police.

Stating your position and why you are not in any violation.

Being a dick.

Being non confrontational, but firm in your convictions.

 

[mxh5891]

That lake in particular I drove over an hour and a half to get to. One dive I found 3 walkers in it. Another 6 gold rings. When I drive that far I use two to three tanks. Each tank lasts me 3 hours. MOST the kids are in shallow water, However there is a swim platform out deep that the older ones swim to. I NEVER play in shallow water when anybody is there. Only first thing in the morning from 5am - 8 am. I then go deeper and enjoy the water. NOBODY swims out that deep and stays in the water. They get on the platform. When school is out they are swimming from morning to evening. The issue WAS, EVERYONE thought it was a private lake. The millionaires refused to let a guy from Port Huron with a beat up truck park on their street. THAT was what ALL the calls were about. The last time they were called 2 Sgt's and one officer showed up. They told EVERYONE in the park I was within my rights and the next person that called would be cited for harassment. The calls stopped. I am welcome there now. The park manager made it clear to everyone in the association I was legal in his newsletter. Nobody has bothered me since. In fact, I get along with everyone now and am accepted. I posted the story so people might know what to do in similar situations.

I was not even in front of the swim area a lot of the time. I was to the right of it. It didn't matter to them. I was in their lake.

I was unemployed and living off my finds. Driving all around and wasting gas was not an option. Being bullied by millionaires was also not an option. They were finally educated. I was not embarrassed, I was not rude, however I also was not pushed around.

You don't need to explain yourself. 99% of us here understand why you did what you did and we applaud you for it. I find it awesome that you scuba dive and detect and would love to try it sometime. Do you always dive alone? Have you ever gone diving in the ocean to dectect?

 

[ScubaDetector]

If harass by the police, take down their badge number and report them to the police chief. Good hunting and good luck.

You folks are going to LOVE this. This lake I was harassed the most in, I had a run in with the police chief! Not mentioned yet because it was a different situation. I found this gun on a dive in the same lake.


I called the police on my cell and an officer came out. I found 18 live bullets before I found the gun. They took it and of course got all my information again. The officer even laughed because I called instead of the millionaires. Well after the investigation it was discovered the owner tossed it in because he did not want to sell it and he didn't want it. So in the lake it went with all the ammo. I told the evidence Sgt I wanted it back. I was told I was not going to get it and it was going to be destroyed. WRONG ANSWER!! In Michigan the law is CLEAR. ANY abandoned property can be claimed by the finder EVEN a gun, as long as the finder is allowed to own it. I told him to have the chief call me please.

The chief did. He also told me they were going to destroy it. He said the owner didn't want anyone to have it and nobody was going to get it. I told him that wasn't the law. He said he didn't care. I said then you are going to buy me a new gun. He said what do you mean. I said we are going to court. He HUNG UP on me.

I got a lawyer pro bono and the lawyer told me to get a copy of the police report. I called the department and asked for it. They told me to come down in two days. I was on my way down when I got a call on my cell phone. It was the evidence Sgt. He said I could have the gun if I got a purchase permit from my local department. I told him I already had it. I went down and picked up my gun and all the bullets. I had a gunsmith clean it up and put a new mainspring in it and re-time it. It now works. I didn't want it refinished. I won't shoot it but it is in my collection. it was in the water almost 40 years.



It is a Taurus 357 magnum with a 6" barrel. I wish it was a S&W but I will keep it. I also found a lot of live 45ACP ammo. I am hoping a Colt 1911 is hiding out there also but haven't found it yet.

I have another story of another police chief trying to infringe on my rights also. BUT I will probably be attacked some more so I hesitate to tell it.

 

[releventchair]

What? No littering ticket to previous owner? Sigh.

 

[Garrett424]

I've had a few Maryland DNR police harass me in an area bordering a state park I had gotten permission to hunt. It's happened 5 times so far at that spot. I always give them the girl's name and number and they leave me alone' so far. I swear those people are worse than actual cops with their love of their own authority; at least ythe ones I've encountered have been.

I live right on the Howard/Baltimore County line in MD. The Baltimore County cops are almost always really cool. I can't say the same for Howard County. Those people are freakin' zealots and have a well known reputation for it.

I had one pull me over the summer before last for a blown center brake light bulb' a minor traffic violation. He detained me for almost an hour and tried everything he could think of to get me to speak to him so he could figure out a reason to arrest me. He ordered me to "surrender my weapon", a completely legal switch blade pocket knife clipped to my pocket in plain view. I refused if I wasn't being charged for a crime. Plus, had I reached for it he could have shot me and claimed I was pulling a weapon. It happens.

He asked in a really mean, intense way if there was anything he "should know about" in my car. I asked him, "Like what, drugs, alcohol or weapons"?? He said, "exactly" (as if I would have told him if there had been). I said no, all of my guns are safely locked in a secure location and I don't use drugs or drink.

Ultimately he "let" me leave while trying to convince me how "cool" he had been. He then followed me around for the rest of the weekend whenever he got the chance and sat glaring at me in a parking lot for about 40 minutes while I was standing and talking to a girl I know.

I finally went to the station and filed an official complaint. I was told it was the second one filed against this clown in under a week. I was assured there would be no blow-back and that he would no longer be bothering me. So far he hasn't and I hope he never does. I still see him around once in a while.

Again, the Baltimore County cops are usually fine. I've had several encounters in parks that went just fine. I had another one stop me one evening at dusk while hunting a school. As he approached me I was thinking, "here we go" but he just asked if I had found anything good. We talked a while, he wished me luck and off he went. He was totally cool and never acted threatening in any way.

Mt ex wife's uncle was the Chief of Baltimore Co. Police for five years. I met quite a few cops during that time. What I noticed is that this particular line of work can and often does attract some real bullies and control freaks. It's up to the departments to screen those types and try and keep them out. Unfortunately, a few will always squeak through. They give all cops a bad name and it IS a significant problem.

I've learned not to talk to cops at all unless I absolutely have to. Saying or doing one thing wrong can get you arrested and into big trouble very quickly. It can cost you a fortune and mess up your life even if you've done nothing wrong.

I don't argue with them. In most cases the only things I will say or do is maybe showing ID if necessary, asking if I am detained and if I am free to go. If I'm free to go, I GO. If ever I'm not free to go, I'll invoke my right to a lawyer and keep my mouth shut. Fortunately, that has never happened but everyone needs to be FULLY aware that anything you say can and WILL be used against you.

Mostly I avoid all law enforcement types at all costs. Police work has drastically changed over the last couple of decades and the whole Terrorism/Homeland security/ Patriot Act paranoia has made it worse for every liberty loving citizen IMO. The police training is also much more aggressive and much more militaristic than it once was. Today's cops are WAY different than yesterday's cops. The best thing is to avoid all contact with law enforcement unless it's absolutely necessary.

I know a kid who was 16 at the time and lit a small fire on federal property. He didn't even know he was on federal land. In his mind he was just in the woods and it was cold. The cops and feds didn't agree and charged him with a terrorist act. He's 19 now and still on his 5 years of probation and just barely avoided prison. He had to go through psychiatric analysis and counseling over a year. There was zero intent to even commit a crime but he's still paying the price. He's a perfectly normal and good kid who harmed no one. When I was growing up you could build a fire in the woods without the fear of arrest and prosecution. We had actual freedom then.

My best story was the angry woman who confronted and accosted me while hunting a school field. I told her to go ahead and call the cops but she backed down. Then I found two silver Pandora charms so I got a happy ending. It's a bit of a long story that I actually posted a thread about here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ver-spite-confrontation-very-angry-woman.html


I do wish that people would learn the laws before they go around trying to enforce them. It would save everyone a huge amount of aggravation and make our fantastic hobby that much more enjoyable.

For the most part I try and keep low profile pretty much all of the time no matter what I'm doing or where I am. I've learned that you generally have far less trouble when you don't draw attention to yourself.

 

[mxh5891]

I've had a few Maryland DNR police harass me in an area bordering a state park I had gotten permission to hunt. It's happened 5 times so far at that spot. I always give them the girl's name and number and they leave me alone' so far. I swear those people are worse than actual cops with their love of their own authority; at least ythe ones I've encountered have been.

I live right on the Howard/Baltimore County line in MD. The Baltimore County cops are almost always really cool. I can't say the same for Howard County. Those people are freakin' zealots and have a well known reputation for it.

I had one pull me over the summer before last for a blown center brake light bulb' a minor traffic violation. He detained me for almost an hour and tried everything he could think of to get me to speak to him so he could figure out a reason to arrest me. He ordered me to "surrender my weapon", a completely legal switch blade pocket knife clipped to my pocket in plain view. I refused if I wasn't being charged for a crime. Plus, had I reached for it he could have shot me and claimed I was pulling a weapon. It happens.

He asked in a really mean, intense way if there was anything he "should know about" in my car. I asked him, "Like what, drugs, alcohol or weapons"?? He said, "exactly" (as if I would have told him if there had been). I said no, all of my guns are safely locked in a secure location and I don't use drugs or drink.

Ultimately he "let" me leave while trying to convince me how "cool" he had been. He then followed me around for the rest of the weekend whenever he got the chance and sat glaring at me in a parking lot for about 40 minutes while I was standing and talking to a girl I know.

I finally went to the station and filed an official complaint. I was told it was the second one filed against this clown in under a week. I was assured there would be no blow-back and that he would no longer be bothering me. So far he hasn't and I hope he never does. I still see him around once in a while.

Again, the Baltimore County cops are usually fine. I've had several encounters in parks that went just fine. I had another one stop me one evening at dusk while hunting a school. As he approached me I was thinking, "here we go" but he just asked if I had found anything good. We talked a while, he wished me luck and off he went. He was totally cool and never acted threatening in any way.

Mt ex wife's uncle was the Chief of Baltimore Co. Police for five years. I met quite a few cops during that time. What I noticed is that this particular line of work can and often does attract some real bullies and control freaks. It's up to the departments to screen those types and try and keep them out. Unfortunately, a few will always squeak through. They give all cops a bad name and it IS a significant problem.

I've learned not to talk to cops at all unless I absolutely have to. Saying or doing one thing wrong can get you arrested and into big trouble very quickly. It can cost you a fortune and mess up your life even if you've done nothing wrong.

I don't argue with them. In most cases the only things I will say or do is maybe showing ID if necessary, asking if I am detained and if I am free to go. If I'm free to go, I GO. If ever I'm not free to go, I'll invoke my right to a lawyer and keep my mouth shut. Fortunately, that has never happened but everyone needs to be FULLY aware that anything you say can and WILL be used against you.

Mostly I avoid all law enforcement types at all costs. Police work has drastically changed over the last couple of decades and the whole Terrorism/Homeland security/ Patriot Act paranoia has made it worse for every liberty loving citizen IMO. The police training is also much more aggressive and much more militaristic than it once was. Today's cops are WAY different than yesterday's cops. The best thing is to avoid all contact with law enforcement unless it's absolutely necessary.

I know a kid who was 16 at the time and lit a small fire on federal property. He didn't even know he was on federal land. In his mind he was just in the woods and it was cold. The cops and feds didn't agree and charged him with a terrorist act. He's 19 now and still on his 5 years of probation and just barely avoided prison. He had to go through psychiatric analysis and counseling over a year. There was zero intent to even commit a crime but he's still paying the price. He's a perfectly normal and good kid who harmed no one. When I was growing up you could build a fire in the woods without the fear of arrest and prosecution. We had actual freedom then.

My best story was the angry woman who confronted and accosted me while hunting a school field. I told her to go ahead and call the cops but she backed down. Then I found two silver Pandora charms so I got a happy ending. It's a bit of a long story that I actually posted a thread about here:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...ver-spite-confrontation-very-angry-woman.html


I do wish that people would learn the laws before they go around trying to enforce them. It would save everyone a huge amount of aggravation and maker our fantastic hobby that much more enjoyable.

For the most part I try and keep low profile pretty much all of the time no matter what I'm doing or where I am. I've learned that you generally have far less trouble when you don't draw attention to yourself.

I live in Howard county maryland and when someone called the cops on me when I was trying out my new detector in my townhouses community tot lot. The cops came and we're super cool with me. They let me know I was totally fine detecting and that I could continue, and they went on their way. You must have caught that cop when he was having a bad day.

 

[ScubaDetector]

I do wish that people would learn the laws before they go around trying to enforce them. It would save everyone a huge amount of aggravation and maker our fantastic hobby that much more enjoyable.

For the most part I try and keep low profile pretty much all of the time no matter what I'm doing or where I am. I've learned that you generally have far less trouble when you don't draw attention to yourself.

UNFORTUNATELY, A dive flag brings attention to you while underwater!! When the police came they would have someone pull on the flag to get me to come up. I even tried to ignore that and was almost pulled all the way out of the water. You have to have a flag or you will for sure get a ticket when you come up. I wish it was as simple as not having a flag so nobody knew I was in the lakes until I came out.

 

[diggummup]

That lake in particular I drove over an hour and a half to get to. One dive I found 3 walkers in it. Another 6 gold rings. When I drive that far I use two to three tanks. Each tank lasts me 3 hours. MOST the kids are in shallow water, However there is a swim platform out deep that the older ones swim to. I NEVER play in shallow water when anybody is there. Only first thing in the morning from 5am - 8 am. I then go deeper and enjoy the water. NOBODY swims out that deep and stays in the water. They get on the platform. When school is out they are swimming from morning to evening. The issue WAS, EVERYONE thought it was a private lake. The millionaires refused to let a guy from Port Huron with a beat up truck park on their street. THAT was what ALL the calls were about. The last time they were called 2 Sgt's and one officer showed up. They told EVERYONE in the park I was within my rights and the next person that called would be cited for harassment. The calls stopped. I am welcome there now. The park manager made it clear to everyone in the association I was legal in his newsletter. Nobody has bothered me since. In fact, I get along with everyone now and am accepted. I posted the story so people might know what to do in similar situations.

I was not even in front of the swim area a lot of the time. I was to the right of it. It didn't matter to them. I was in their lake.

I was unemployed and living off my finds. Driving all around and wasting gas was not an option. Being bullied by millionaires was also not an option. They were finally educated. I was not embarrassed, I was not rude, however I also was not pushed around.

You don't have to explain yourself. It's not your fault some people would rather be pushed around than stand their ground. That's what's wrong with this country nowadays. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. These people probably aren't even sure if they are detecting in an area that allows it to begin with, which is why they are so quick to turn tail when confronted by the police.

 

[atomicscott]

It is total B.S. but I just know that cops (no offense to you) can be dicks, & you can end up wasting a lot of time if they decide to put you through the system. Not being a sworn peace officer myself, I tend to politely say "yes sir, you are the one with the gun". I have no experience in diving, but as a long haired guy in a metal band I had my fair share of harrassment. On more than 2 occassions I was accused of crimes I did not commit or had my truck searched after being pulled over for "speeding" & not even getting cited! I had a guy at a local park tell me that I was only allowed to use a screwdriver to dig. There are no signs posted regarding detecting or any ordnances or park rules/regulations stating this. I tried to argue with the guy that my taxes pay for the use of this park, blah, blah, blah. All I ended up with is higher blood pressure for the day. My thinking is, after so many LEO encounters, I would start to get the feeling maybe I should change up my tactics a bit JMHO. They need to hire you for evidence recovery according to the .357 you recovered! Great job! HH. If you see something, shoot something!

 

[ScubaDetector]

It is total B.S. but I just know that cops (no offense to you) can be dicks, & you can end up wasting a lot of time if they decide to put you through the system. Not being a sworn peace officer myself, I tend to politely say "yes sir, you are the one with the gun". I have no experience in diving, but as a long haired guy in a metal band I had my fair share of harrassment. On more than 2 occassions I was accused of crimes I did not commit or had my truck searched after being pulled over for "speeding" & not even getting cited! I had a guy at a local park tell me that I was only allowed to use a screwdriver to dig. There are no signs posted regarding detecting or any ordnances or park rules/regulations stating this. I tried to argue with the guy that my taxes pay for the use of this park, blah, blah, blah. All I ended up with is higher blood pressure for the day. My thinking is, after so many LEO encounters, I would start to get the feeling maybe I should change up my tactics a bit JMHO. They need to hire you for evidence recovery according to the .357 you recovered! Great job! HH. If you see something, shoot something!

My only reply to that is I don't know how to change. I was STUBBORN by keeping going back to that one lake. I am STUBBORN when ANY rich homeowner tries to push me around and trample on me. I had NO idea someone would think metal detectors were shotguns. MOST inland lakes NEVER see a diver. I used to go without a flag so I wasn't noticed. However that ONE ticket ended that. I had to drive almost three hours to court for that one. The one at the marina, well I was almost 4 hours from home on a camping and detecting trip. As I said, I am not your normal detectorist. I am retired now. I get out there and dive 3 - 5 days a week. Sometimes 6 but rare. I am usually in the water 6 hours. I carry 12 scuba tanks in my truck. The RICH folks that own land on a lake don't like ANYBODY behind there house. I am in their backyard they think. That would be TRUE if a private lake. Each home owner owns a piece of property in a pie shape out to the middle of the lake. Anybody that boats on it can fish, swim, and anchor on it ANYWHERE. So a homeowner can give you permission to hunt the lake. HOWEVER, as soon as you step off his piece of the pie, you are trespassing. You are not allowed to physically touch bottom. I can even dive anywhere on it, as long as I never touch bottom. The rich have a lot of GREAT people that don't look down on the less fortunate, then you have the SNOBS that believe they own everything. I educate the snobs and don't let the officers that get paid by the snobs in their jurisdiction push me around.

Think about it. You have multi million dollar homes. Some are completely outrageous. One has a helicopter pad in his backyard. He flies over the lake lands in his yard, folds the rotor and has it pushed in a hanger attached to his house, which opens on the waters side, This is no small helicopter either The officers are paid to watch these homes and appease the people. So who do you think they will try to push around when they are called? Trouble is I know the law and I won't back down in front of the rich people. The officers get frustrated because they can't make me leave. Yes my truck was an eyesore. BUT I didn't have any money to replace it.

I know it is a game they have to play and so do you. You said it yourself. It is maddening when you are asked to leave. You do to diffuse the situation, and MOST will. I stated before, do what makes you comfortable and you feel is right. Myself, I will frustrate the officer that attempts to infringe on my rights. Laws were made to protect our lakes for EVERYONE'S enjoyment. They were not made to give filthy rich people the right to push the little guy around.

Why I am stubborn is personal. Maybe one day I will share. I have only been ticketed by three officers, one which I demanded. (I really threw the Sgt off!) AND, only had one officer really try to bully me and he failed. EVERY other instance, the police backed me up with the laws on my side. I also stated that this has absolutely nothing to do with metal detecting. That was never an issue. It had to do with my rights as a citizen and my rights as a diver who wants to enjoy EVERY lake I can in Michigan before I die. That is a goal and a dream.

Will things change? Maybe. I now have a new looking Avalanche with handicapped, disabled veteran plates. It will blend in nicely. The one lake that I had the most problems on I get along with everyone there now. When I find a new lake, only time will tell if a rich homeowner feels I am breaking the law and need the police called on me. HOWEVER, I won't back down like the song, and I will educate any officer that thinks he can throw his weight around because he has a badge and a gun. If the officer feels he doesn't need an education, well only time will tell if they take a man in a wet suit to jail. If they do. They for sure will have a bigger fight on their hands.

 

[G.I.B.]

"I pay your salary"

"My tax dollars paid for this park"

I handed a guy a nickel once and told him that was his share, and his refund, for paying for my career... and that he didn't pay very well either...

It's just a little bit of research into the law, and a statement of facts, politely, to whomever you are speaking to.

I've got some park rangers that try to run me out of the water off of a particular beach. I have a letter, about 5 years old now, that I show them, from their agency, stating where their jurisdiction ends.

They walk away with a stupid looks on their faces.

 

[QMaze]

Shame on the officers for not knowing the laws they police, to me it just says don't trust the police to protect the rights of everyone. The public should be able to write citations.

 

[dirtscratcher]

Pictures? I can give you more than you bargain for!! My photobucket accout is Robertg_G. I believe it is all public. I was trying to put some on here but haven't learned how.

http://s81.photobucket.com/user/robertg_g/library/?sort=3&page=1

What a great bunch of pics. My favorite is that big smallmouth bass.

 

[ScubaDetector]

What a great bunch of pics. My favorite is that big smallmouth bass.

They are actually a fish I could never fish for again if I wanted to. The friendliest fish in fresh water. They will eat bugs and crayfish right out of your hand. I dove one lake so much there was one that always found me no matter what time of day. He was blacker than most and had a small scar on his side. Followed me like a dog every time I dove that lake. I call them my dive partners.

However, I did not take that picture, I took it off the internet to show others what one looked like. They get huge in lake St. Clair however they are still inquisitive and watch you.

Pike stay put until you exhale, then they shoot off like rockets. Musky look at you like, what are you doing in my water? Perch are spooked. Walleye will let you almost touch them and they move away slowly. Carp shoot away at your bubbles also. Turtles try to hide but you can catch them easily. I had a silver dollar size snapper try to bite me while I was holding the back of its shell. I was dying laughing at it reaching around with its small mouth trying to grab my fingers. I love nature and enjoy the peace down on the bottom.

 

[T.C.]

Great pictures Scuba!! Thanks for sharing!!

 

[G.I.B.]

Shame on the officers for not knowing the laws they police

You ever see the size of the law books?

 

[ScubaDetector]

You ever see the size of the law books?

Yep. And it is totally impossible for anyone, including the police to know all the laws. However, some do try to enforce laws they made up in their head!! I have a gun and a badge, I am the law. LOL

Thanks for the comment on the pictures. I started making albums of every year on the left side. I haven't taken out personal photo's yet. Some were there for a reason. Photobucket doesn't make it easy to move pictures around. However it is free.