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Detectorists vs Looters

Anyway I can tell you way, because it gives access to wonderful archeological finds to everyone, it levels the playing field for all to share in a discovery not just the person finding it.... and trying to make a dime off of it. I don't know why it wouldn't work here, it would give access to a host of sites that are off limits, unless you are now hunting them and somehow breaking the law.... in which case, your right it would be bad for you...

I abide by all laws. Don't infer that I don't just because I think your idea is rubbish. We do have more freedom than anyone in England, period. No way would the government take away any of my finds that were found legally.
 
The point I was making is there would be no way we'd agree to give up our finds to anyone and let them decide if they were trash or treasure. Why the people of England think it's okay to hand over their finds to some rich king seems crazy to me in the 21st century.
I agree with you on turning over everything, but I would agree to it if they let us search on "all" public property and those finds only be turned in for evaluation.

Just an FYI, England's Monarchy has no control in their government any longer and hasn't had for a very long time, they are only a symbolic position...but they do get the "royal" treatment and everything that goes with it but they don't get the "treasures" found now-a-days!!
 
I'm a Pirate, a looter, an archeologist's worst nightmare! I go and detect where and when I want. I've encountered police, Park police, County police, Watershed police, State police, and County Sheriffs, I've found that respect, and "I'm looking for my daughter's lost wedding ring," and "I apologize," work for me quite well. Finders Keepers Bitches!
 
The only problem I have with that system is that in England anything found of private property has to be vetted by the government before you OR the property owner get a "reward" or get to keep it, here anything found on private property belongs to the property owners outright, no government involved.

Now if they did a system where private property finds stay the way as it is now but open up "public" property for that type of system, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'd say no!
Yikes. That sounds quite restricted. That would be quite frustrating. Doing permissions with private property owners is another reason for doing what do here.
 
I'm a Pirate, a looter, an archeologist's worst nightmare! I go and detect where and when I want. I've encountered police, Park police, County police, Watershed police, State police, and County Sheriffs, I've found that respect, and "I'm looking for my daughter's lost wedding ring," and "I apologize," work for me quite well. Finders Keepers Bitches!
I understand the anger. I've been approached while digging too. People are mostly great, but there's those few right. The police see me all the time, but they seem to be okay with it. Maybe they think I'm a homeless guy with a walking stick lol.
 
The point I was making is there would be no way we'd agree to give up our finds to anyone and let them decide if they were trash or treasure. Why the people of England think it's okay to hand over their finds to some rich king seems crazy to me in the 21st century.
Yeah, your bunch has real issues by the sounds of it. Maybe they don't realize that they're creating looters that way.
 
Yikes. That sounds quite restricted. That would be quite frustrating. Doing permissions with private property owners is another reason for doing what do here.
In England it seem that some resent that system and hunt at night without permission for where they detect or declaring in what they find, they're called "Nighthawks", but in reality they're just thiefs out for the money!!

These are the ones that make it look bad for everyone, we have the same kind of people over here as well.
 
I Have No Respect for Archies (Some can be Considered Grave Robbers) who Use the Word Looters !
if anyone is a 'looter' it is Them ! They want a site Dug, They Cry for 'more money' they say they need 'more money' to do it. They are Happy to LOOT from Taxes & Donations,
for their pockets. Then they Call a News Source who is Willing to do a Write-up , & Mention they need Volunteer Diggers .
After which they walk around Waiting for Things to Appear & Take them. at Most they Put them on a Table to Look at, while they take credit and Write a Phony History that Fits their agenda.

after all that They Declair the Site a Historical Landmark or perminant archeology site. so Anything missed Stays out of the publics Hands.

Add I'll Bet 99% of them Wear Gloves , Even what Removing them from Drawers in their Basements ! Afraid to Touch Actual History, So they Claim Human hands do Damage More then the Ground their Rusting in.

They call that Respect for History ?:icon_scratch:

We Love History. Most of us Will Spend Our Own Time, Cash and Energy to Walk around for Hours Digging & Saving Treasures from Rotting away in the Ground ! :coffee2:

Sorry That Word 'Looter' Sets me Off :BangHead:
 
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though the Brits may have a More Thorough Meaning,
imo "Nighthawks" Steal From Actual Active Sites at night .
Sort of Like Claim Jumpers in the Gold Fields.

here in the '70's the Local Junk yard Used to Call the kids who
couldn't afford car parts Their "Night Crew"

an all together different animal from looters who steal from Taxpayers
and benefactors
 
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Now if they did a system where private property finds stay the way as it is now but open up "public" property for that type of system, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'd say no!
And if something of National Historical value were found, say … you found evidence of the lost colony of Jamestown and you didn’t report it, that to me is like looting a grave and destroying something that could bring to light something of national importance. And you would rather keep it in your personal possession in a shoebox because “it was found on private property” Although the VAST majority of fines never reach the level of a national treasure, you and the world would never know unless professionals examined it.
To me that seems a travesty of history. And very selfish on your part 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
And if something of National Historical value were found, say … you found evidence of the lost colony of Jamestown and you didn’t report it, that to me is like looting a grave and destroying something that could bring to light something of national importance. And you would rather keep it in your personal possession in a shoebox because “it was found on private property” Although the VAST majority of fines never reach the level of a national treasure, you and the world would never know unless professionals examined it.
I don't see how that would happen, unless the finder had no idea what they had found. Anything of national importance is going to be worth money, or fame, or both, and with very few exceptions, nobody is going to put those in a shoebox.
 
There seems that many members believe that the PAS system in the UK works in a certain way.
Even one member believes it gives a person a license to hunt restricted lands.
Another believes that it would open up these restricted lands.

Amazing thoughts and maybe a little too hopeful ☺️

PAS basically has a set rule of the article has to be 300 yrs old and have a 10% content of gold or silver.

We're talking apples and oranges for history.
The Roman occupation of England mirrors the colonial history of North America.

From doing 8 trips = 1000 hrs of detecting in England I got to keep every single recovery.
Each one was documented from 50 BC to modern.
Here is a AI response to restricted lands in England.

  • managed by the Forestry Commission requires permission from them.

  • Private Land:
    You need permission from the landowner to detect on any private land, including farmland and woodland.

  • Council Land:
    Some council-owned areas like public parks or beaches may have restrictions or require permits.

  • Beaches:
    While some beaches are publicly accessible, others may have restrictions or require permits, particularly those owned by the Crown (the monarchy) or those with private ownership above the high tide line.
Important Considerations:
  • Always seek permission:
    It's crucial to get permission from the landowner or relevant authority before detecting on any land.

  • Be aware of local bylaws:
    Some local councils may have specific regulations regarding metal detecting in public areas.

  • Respect the law:
    Failure to comply with these restrictions can lead to legal penalties.

  • Report finds:
    If you do find anything of historical or archaeological significance, it's important to report it to the relevant authorities.
 
There seems that many members believe that the PAS system in the UK works in a certain way.
Even one member believes it gives a person a license to hunt restricted lands.
Another believes that it would open up these restricted lands.

Amazing thoughts and maybe a little too hopeful ☺️

PAS basically has a set rule of the article has to be 300 yrs old and have a 10% content of gold or silver.

We're talking apples and oranges for history.
The Roman occupation of England mirrors the colonial history of North America.

From doing 8 trips = 1000 hrs of detecting in England I got to keep every single recovery.
Each one was documented from 50 BC to modern.
Here is a AI response to restricted lands in England.

  • managed by the Forestry Commission requires permission from them.

  • Private Land:
    You need permission from the landowner to detect on any private land, including farmland and woodland.

  • Council Land:
    Some council-owned areas like public parks or beaches may have restrictions or require permits.

  • Beaches:
    While some beaches are publicly accessible, others may have restrictions or require permits, particularly those owned by the Crown (the monarchy) or those with private ownership above the high tide line.
Important Considerations:
  • Always seek permission:
    It's crucial to get permission from the landowner or relevant authority before detecting on any land.

  • Be aware of local bylaws:
    Some local councils may have specific regulations regarding metal detecting in public areas.

  • Respect the law:
    Failure to comply with these restrictions can lead to legal penalties.

  • Report finds:
    If you do find anything of historical or archaeological significance, it's important to report it to the relevant authorities.
The UK Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) provides guidelines for reporting archaeological finds, particularly those potentially classified as "Treasure" under the Treasure Act 1996. The PAS encourages the public to record all finds, not just those that are legally defined as treasure, as it provides valuable archaeological information. Finds should be reported to the local Finds Liaison Officer (FLO).
Key aspects of the PAS and Treasure Act:
Treasure:
Defined by the Treasure Act, it includes certain types of objects found in the UK, primarily gold and silver objects over 300 years old, and groups of coins (hoards) meeting specific age and metal content criteria.
Reporting Requirements:
Finders of potential Treasure are legally obligated to report their finds within 14 days to the coroner for the district where the find was made.
Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS):
A voluntary scheme that encourages the recording of all archaeological finds, not just those defined as treasure, by the public.
Finds Liaison Officers (FLOs):
FLOs are based around the country and are the first point of contact for reporting finds and receiving advice on the PAS and Treasure Act.
What to Report:
The PAS encourages reporting of all finds, not just those that are Treasure, as they can provide important archaeological information.
Importance of Findspot:
Accurate recording of the findspot is crucial for the archaeological value of the find.
Landowner Permission:
It is essential to obtain landowner permission before searching for archaeological finds.
Ownership:
Unless otherwise agreed, the landowner owns the finds.
Reward:
If a find is deemed Treasure and acquired by a museum, the finder and landowner may be eligible for a reward.
In summary, the PAS and Treasure Act aim to encourage the recording of archaeological finds for the benefit of research and public knowledge, while also providing a framework for the identification and acquisition of treasure by museums.
 
Most of what I ever found was out of its original context, as it was in a plowed field. There's a well known site in Oklahoma where 'archeologists' came out and wanted to survey the village site. Landowner thought that would be ok, but then he went down and found they were digging up a prehistoric cemetery and he ran them off. We did have a couple of archaeologists in Oklahoma that would work closely with us arrowhead hunters as we could cover more ground than they could. One guy told me he was fine with us collecting and they had pretty much learned all they could about that particular culture. He was an exception to that profession I guess.
Good story
 
This topic is really polarizing .... I live in France and the laws are very ambiguous ... There is so much here to be dug up,, really rich history dating back many thousands of years.. but the paranoid PTB say we can't go look for it. As a detectorist it is so frustrating, because the act of detecting is not illegal, until you find something of a certain antiquity, then it gets very murky and dangerous.. Looting is the word !! .. So all the many thousands of detectorists here carry out their hobby in fear.. the fear of finding something worth finding.. I don't get it...
UK treasure act,, perfect !! encourage responsible searching, and reward the finders and land owners without the need for selling in 'illegal' ways .. enrich the historical record and let people have a bit of fun.....
The way it is here, and in most of Europe, is the treasure is better off under the ground than being dug up by a hobbyist .... I mean who are they to say that they own everything ?? even stuff that they don't know whether it exists or not ?.. If someone accidentally lost or intentionally hid some treasure some centuries ago,, why does that automatically become 'property of the state' ?? ....

The detectorist dream, dig up an old treasure,, the buzz, the kudos... declare it and wait for some reward and maybe your name on the plaque in the museum where it is displayed.
The reality,,, "shit that looks old... and valuable,, mmmmm , better leave it be... (next target is a ring pull) i'll be a good citizen and take that home.... self policing moral fools we have become.
rant over

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The UK Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS) provides guidelines for reporting archaeological finds, particularly those potentially classified as "Treasure" under the Treasure Act 1996. The PAS encourages the public to record all finds, not just those that are legally defined as treasure, as it provides valuable archaeological information. Finds should be reported to the local Finds Liaison Officer (FLO).
Key aspects of the PAS and Treasure Act:
Treasure:
Defined by the Treasure Act, it includes certain types of objects found in the UK, primarily gold and silver objects over 300 years old, and groups of coins (hoards) meeting specific age and metal content criteria.
Reporting Requirements:
Finders of potential Treasure are legally obligated to report their finds within 14 days to the coroner for the district where the find was made.
Portable Antiquities Scheme (PAS):
A voluntary scheme that encourages the recording of all archaeological finds, not just those defined as treasure, by the public.
Finds Liaison Officers (FLOs):
FLOs are based around the country and are the first point of contact for reporting finds and receiving advice on the PAS and Treasure Act.
What to Report:
The PAS encourages reporting of all finds, not just those that are Treasure, as they can provide important archaeological information.
Importance of Findspot:
Accurate recording of the findspot is crucial for the archaeological value of the find.
Landowner Permission:
It is essential to obtain landowner permission before searching for archaeological finds.
Ownership:
Unless otherwise agreed, the landowner owns the finds.
Reward:
If a find is deemed Treasure and acquired by a museum, the finder and landowner may be eligible for a reward.
In summary, the PAS and Treasure Act aim to encourage the recording of archaeological finds for the benefit of research and public knowledge, while also providing a framework for the identification and acquisition of treasure by museums.
I do remember last year a treasure hunter found a very valuable nugget. I think it was the largest in England at the time. I believe he split it with the property owner. Ahh, here's the link: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/21/style/englands-largest-gold-nugget-scli-intl-scn/index.html
 
And if something of National Historical value were found, say … you found evidence of the lost colony of Jamestown and you didn’t report it, that to me is like looting a grave and destroying something that could bring to light something of national importance. And you would rather keep it in your personal possession in a shoebox because “it was found on private property” Although the VAST majority of fines never reach the level of a national treasure, you and the world would never know unless professionals examined it.
To me that seems a travesty of history. And very selfish on your part


The Archies have had hundreds of years to get off their butts and find any historical sites still undiscovered. Let's be realistic, at the snail's pace they move at, most undiscovered sites will be covered over with pavement long before they get around to finding them. I'm not going to let that happen in my area. I'm grabbing as many colonial era coins and relics I can get my paws on before they're lost forever from greedy developers.
 
I don't see how that would happen, unless the finder had no idea what they had found.
And just for the sake of argument... how many times have you dug something that you "Didn't know what it was" and you maybe asked here...
Even on these forums we have a "What is it" category to help ID things that seem unknown...
Happens all the time, plus the fact that a lot of people, prefer to just keep stuff over ever turning anything in..
I mean, I want everyone to know, I also like to keep the stuff that I find, I just wonder sometimes that some really incredible museum quality items end up in a shoebox, that would be nice for people to see and understand..
Clearly if I find a silver quarter in a schoolyard that would not be something I would have to present to anyone for verification, but if I discovered a bronze cannon from Spain with the markings of Desoto... I think it would better to be in a museum than in my front yard..
That's all I'm saying..
I have so often wondered when hunting an old site, "what did people who hunted here before me, actually find"?
Something nobody can ever know.. :dontknow:
 
This topic is really polarizing .... I live in France and the laws are very ambiguous ... There is so much here to be dug up,, really rich history dating back many thousands of years.. but the paranoid PTB say we can't go look for it. As a detectorist it is so frustrating, because the act of detecting is not illegal, until you find something of a certain antiquity, then it gets very murky and dangerous.. Looting is the word !! .. So all the many thousands of detectorists here carry out their hobby in fear.. the fear of finding something worth finding.. I don't get it...
UK treasure act,, perfect !! encourage responsible searching, and reward the finders and land owners without the need for selling in 'illegal' ways .. enrich the historical record and let people have a bit of fun.....
The way it is here, and in most of Europe, is the treasure is better off under the ground than being dug up by a hobbyist .... I mean who are they to say that they own everything ?? even stuff that they don't know whether it exists or not ?.. If someone accidentally lost or intentionally hid some treasure some centuries ago,, why does that automatically become 'property of the state' ?? ....

The detectorist dream, dig up an old treasure,, the buzz, the kudos... declare it and wait for some reward and maybe your name on the plaque in the museum where it is displayed.
The reality,,, "shit that looks old... and valuable,, mmmmm , better leave it be... (next target is a ring pull) i'll be a good citizen and take that home.... self policing moral fools we have become.
rant over

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Wow. It's such a complicated issue for all of us. So, it seems we can dig but can never find the freedom we are actually looking for.
 

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