Detectorists vs Looters

[FreeBirdTim]

if you find something of national historical significance you have to submit it for evaluation by experts. If they find that they don’t want it, you then get to keep it,

Wow, how generous of them! I find something and then they tell me if I can keep it! The problem is this important thing called freedom. Can you imagine the US trying that deal? "Nice find! We'll let the archies look at it and decide if you can keep it." You can imagine the response from anyone in this country!

Taking away a once in a lifetime find and handing you some cash doesn't cut it. I decide if I want to keep it or sell it. Just like I decide if I want to keep or sell anything I've bought or found in my lifetime. Why they put up with this nonsense over there is a mystery to me. Stand up for your right to keep what you find. This is the 21st century, not the Dark Ages.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Taking away a once in a lifetime find and handing you some cash doesn't cut it. I decide if I want to keep it or sell it. Just like I decide if I want to keep or sell anything I've bought or found in my lifetime. Why they put up with this nonsense over there is a mystery to me. Stand up for your right to keep what you find. This is the 21st century, not the Dark Ages.

Tim, in many European countries they have a different mindset about such things as
compared to Americans. Their history of the public land belongs to all the people of
the country, therefore finds of a historical nature belong to all the people. They set
up a group of knowledgeable people to determine both value and historical significance
of an item.

If an item has historical significance and they want to share it with the population, they
will compensate you for that value, otherwise they will simply return it to you with a
explanation of what it is, etc.

Not a bad system, really, but it does remove the "I choose to keep it" option.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Their history of the public land belongs to all the people of
the country, therefore finds of a historical nature belong to all the people.

But it doesn't belong to all the people. They take your item and shop it around to museums and let one of them take it from you. The museum that buys it may never display your item publicly, so that "belonging to the people" doesn't ring true if no one ever gets to see it. Even if they do display it, they may put it out for a short period of time and then squirrel it away in some back room forever. Sorry, but forcibly taking treasure from you with threats of fines or jail time to let a museum do what they want with it is totally unacceptable.

 

[TORRERO]

Can you imagine the US trying that deal?

Yes I can and I would support it! What if you found a field full of Roman artifacts in the middle of North Carolina and you kept them and sold them for profit and nobody ever knew that you had discovered evidence that Roman’s had reached the new world and made a settlement here? You apparently don’t give a flying f. If national historical artifacts are properly preserved and classified. It’s ok with me if I show people what I found and they are willing to pay me and the property owner for those finds so that lost information can be rediscovered and simulated back into the public interest.

 

[TORRERO]

Wow, how generous of them! I find something and then they tell me if I can keep it! The problem is this important thing called freedom. Can you imagine the US trying that deal? "Nice find! We'll let the archies look at it and decide if you can keep it." You can imagine the response from anyone in this country!

Taking away a once in a lifetime find and handing you some cash doesn't cut it. I decide if I want to keep it or sell it. Just like I decide if I want to keep or sell anything I've bought or found in my lifetime. Why they put up with this nonsense over there is a mystery to me. Stand up for your right to keep what you find. This is the 21st century, not the Dark Ages.

For thousands of years this is the exact way looters have seen the Egyptian monuments… just more places to find things that could benefit themselves. Unbelievable that king Tuts tomb was found untouched so that we can see how they buried their kings. But hundreds of kings tombs were lost and destroyed this way and all that history was lost because… well it’s a free world and finders keepers !

 

[pepperj]

The find is for us to determine its value, first and foremost. Than WE can decide how to proceed from there. Our perogative, yes.

It may look like a piece of burnt trash to some.
It could be a rarer piece of history that we dig up.
Saving something from the soils, put in a collection (shoebox or showcase) it doesn't matter, it was saved from further destruction from the environment.
Would the paint brush and trowel crew have ever saved it, very doubtful.

Over the years I have been approached to part with different recoveries, but a memory fades if I don't see it.

I have had numerous inquiries regarding this recovery. One person has offered up a 3 digit $$$ to buy it. The other was "would I sell" inquiry.
So from just posting it, these inquiries on purchasing it.
The item must be rarer piece, even in the current condition.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

You apparently don’t give a flying f. If national historical artifacts are properly preserved and classified.

You sound like a closet archie to me. If I ever find a national treasure, I'll sell it to the highest bidder. That's the way it works in a free country. You do know that the vast majority of items donated to museums are tossed in crates and locked away forever, don't you? That's not what you do with national treasures. You display them so everyone can view our history. Squirreling them away so a select view can fondle them in private is totally unacceptable to me.

 

[ARC]

I abide by all laws. Don't infer that I don't just because I think your idea is rubbish. We do have more freedom than anyone in England, period. No way would the government take away any of my finds that were found legally.

I think you have misunderstood how their system works.
The DO NOT "just take".
They compensate the finder. FBT.
In other words... the finder gets PAID... IF they want to keep your find(s).

They use an appraiser to find a just value and the finder receives that value in money.

 

[mtdoramike]

Yes I can and I would support it! What if you found a field full of Roman artifacts in the middle of North Carolina and you kept them and sold them for profit and nobody ever knew that you had discovered evidence that Roman’s had reached the new world and made a settlement here? You apparently don’t give a flying f. If national historical artifacts are properly preserved and classified. It’s ok with me if I show people what I found and they are willing to pay me and the property owner for those finds so that lost information can be rediscovered and simulated back into the public interest.

Beautifully stated, people and metal detectorist are the worst can't fathom that there is no such thing as "finder's keeper's loser's weepers". Most states, counties and cities have lost and found laws, which require you to contact your local authorities if you find an item and failure to do so could result in criminal issues. They usually impound the item for 90 days or so, then after that period of time you can put a claim in for the item if the owner doesn't claim it first.

Kind of like walking down the street and finding a dropped wallet with hundreds of dollars in it, you can say oh boy, my lucky day or do the right thing. I tell people when they want to go metal detecting with me, that "people never give up their right to property that they lost, no matter how old the object is or how long it's been lost. Detectorist have a responsibility and a quandary when it comes to finding lost items as to what is the right thing to do when you find nice items and not junk or can slaw.

 

[mtdoramike]

Case in point, I rarely ever benefit from metal detecting as far as financial except for battery money. I detected my local high school grounds and within a year, I found some rings, odd pieces of jewelry, some junk, but some silver and gold, but i also found close to $200.00 in coins. At the end of that year, I bought pizzas for the school with the change that I rolled up and took to the bank for cash and then turned in the jewelry to the office.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I think you have misunderstood how their system works.

'
I understand it perfectly well. They take your hard earned coin or relic from you and pay you for it. The only problem is the coin or relic means more to me than money and I want to treasure it for the rest of my life and pass it down to a relative when I die. That is my right. Why other countries would tolerate the taking of their found items is a mystery to me.

 

[ARC]

'
I understand it perfectly well. They take your hard earned coin or relic from you and pay you for it. The only problem is the coin or relic means more to me than money and I want to treasure it for the rest of my life and pass it down to a relative when I die. That is my right. Why other countries would tolerate the taking of their found items is a mystery to me.

You mean compared to here where they will just take it from you... period.
At least there you have a chance of keeping it... and if not at least you are compensated.
In fact MOST finds are returned to finder.
Very few finds are kept by them... unless it has real important ties with cultural history.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Tim, in some of Blossom's posts she shows what the antiquities group
has to say about their finds. Best I can recall, in almost every case the
item is identified and then returned to them, along with the detailed
data about the item.

They don't have to post "What is it?", as there is a team of experts that review
their finds before returning them.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

"It is a criminal offence, punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of three months or a fine not exceeding level 5 (currently £5,000), or both, not to report a find of treasure to the coroner."

This is what bothers me about their law. Seems ridiculous that they would fine you or throw you in jail if you don't report your find to the "coroner". Three months in jail for not reporting something? I can just picture the poor guy in jail now:

"So, bloke, what are you in for?"
"I found a rusty sword metal detecting and didn't report it to the coroner. Turns out, they're claiming it once belonged to King Arthur's third cousin, so it's a historic find!"

(All the other prisoners immediately back away from this very bad man! Lol!)

 

[FreeBirdTim]

You mean compared to here where they will just take it from you... period.

They can't take away anything unless they think it was previously stolen or someone can prove it once belonged to a family member. And they can't take anything away if you keep your mouth shut!

 

[ToddsPoint]

A quote from Gen. Eisenhower: “I never passed up an opportunity to keep my mouth shut.”🤐 🤣

 

[pepperj]

This is what bothers me about their law. Seems ridiculous that they would fine you or throw you in jail if you don't report your find to the "coroner". Three months in jail for not reporting something? I can just picture the poor guy in jail now:

"So, bloke, what are you in for?"
"I found a rusty sword metal detecting and didn't report it to the coroner. Turns out, they're claiming it once belonged to King Arthur's third cousin, so it's a historic find!"

(All the other prisoners immediately back away from this very bad man! Lol!)

There is the old saying :"A little knowledge is dangerous "
This is you and many other's beliefs and opinions regarding the PAS.

There's many countries that are 100% "It's the government's and therefore you hand it over."


From doing 8 tours and the approximate 1000 accumulated hours if detecting I found one treasure and one gold coin.
Both were recorded and returned to me.

Basically anything over 300 yrs old that has a 10% gold or silver content has to be reported to the finds liason within 14 days.

It's recorded and if deemed a treasure the British Museum has first right. If they want to buy the treasure.
It goes to the coroner for appraisal then an offer is presented to the finder and landowner, which can be appealed.
This rarely happens as they have enough in the storage bins and funds are limited.

The Treasure Act https://share.google/5UtcfMjWDtLRuafO6

The following finds are Treasure under the Act, if found after 24 September 1997 (or, in the case of category 2, if found after 1 January 2003):

Any metallic object, other than a coin, provided that at least 10 per cent by weight of metal is precious metal (that is, gold or silver) and that it is at least 300 years old when found. If the object is of prehistoric date it will be Treasure provided any part of it is precious metal.
Any group of two or more metallic objects of any composition of prehistoric date that come from the same find (see note below).
Two or more coins from the same find provided they are at least 300 years old when found and contain 10 per cent gold or silver (if the coins contain less than 10 per cent of gold or silver there must be at least ten of them). Only the following groups of coins will normally be regarded as coming from the same find: Hoards that have been deliberately hidden; Smaller groups of coins, such as the contents of purses, that may been dropped or lost; Votive or ritual deposits.
Any object, whatever it is made of, that is found in the same place as, or had previously been together with, another object that is Treasure.
Any object that would previously have been treasure trove, but does not fall within the specific categories given above. Only objects that are less than 300 years old, that are made substantially of gold or silver, that have been deliberately hidden with the intention of recovery and whose owners or heirs are unknown will come into this category.

Note: An object or coin is part of the 'same find' as another object or coin if it is found in the same place as, or had previously been together with, the other object. Finds may have become scattered since they were originally deposited in the ground.

If found on or after 30 July 2023, a find may be potential Treasure if it does not meet the above criteria but is made at least partially of metal, is at least 200 years old, and provided exceptional insight into an aspect of national or regional history, archaeology or culture by virtue of one or more of the following:

its rarity as an example of its type found in the United Kingdom
the location, region or part of the United Kingdom in which it was found, or
its connection with a particular person or event
A find may also be Treasure if it does not, on its own, provide such an insight, but is, when found, part of the same find as one or more other objects, and provides such an insight when taken together with those objects.

What should I do if I find something that may be Treasure?
You must report all finds of potential Treasure to a coroner for the district in which they are found either within 14 days after the day on which you made the discovery or within 14 days after the day on which you realised the find might be treasure. Your local Finds Liaison Officer can assist you in determining whether a find constitutes potential Treasure and can report the find to the coroner on your behalf.

FTB I hope this explains the process a little better. Yes it's still looking in your pouch, yes it's better than a total ban.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

There is the old saying :"A little knowledge is dangerous "
This is you and many other's beliefs and opinions regarding the PAS.

Don't like my point of view, so you start hurling insults? Classy. I understand that the vast majority of finds are safe, but can you imagine trying this nonsense in the US? Not gonna happen. We are not sheep and will not be bullied by anyone. That law would never hold up in court here. Our Constitution and the Bill of Rights prevents laws like this from ever being passed.

 

[TORRERO]

You mean compared to here where they will just take it from you... period.
At least there you have a chance of keeping it... and if not at least you are compensated.
In fact MOST finds are returned to finder.
Very few finds are kept by them... unless it has real important ties with cultural history.

And this is the way it should be !

 

[TORRERO]

This is what bothers me about their law. Seems ridiculous that they would fine you or throw you in jail if you don't report your find to the "coroner". Three months in jail for not reporting something? I can just picture the poor guy in jail now:

"So, bloke, what are you in for?"
"I found a rusty sword metal detecting and didn't report it to the coroner. Turns out, they're claiming it once belonged to King Arthur's third cousin, so it's a historic find!"

(All the other prisoners immediately back away from this very bad man! Lol!)

I don’t know… but I think i kinda would have liked to know about King Arthur’s third cousins sword 🗡️… and you shouldn’t have kept it for yourself!! 😂🤣