Detectorists vs Looters

[Rock Sinders]

Permissions are very important for us detectorists. Laws are different wherever you go. We're fine with that. If you know the rules, no problem right! Where I am National heritage sites,national parks, all cemeteries, and private properties are off limits to the hobby, unless you can get the permissions to detect there somehow which in some of these I'll never attempt anyway. And there's some places you are okay digging...

So here's the thing. I caught a news segment a while back that still annoys me to this day. It was about an Archaeologist that considered amateur metal detectorists pretty much looters of historical items. He said that! It was a general comment which grouped everyone that swings in this nefarious group.

Well, I love the history aspect of what we do.
At the inlaw's farm I collect the artifacts I find, and if they want them, great, if not, I'm gathering them up, to be donating to a local museum someday. I'm still getting more things out there so I'm waiting for more yet,,,
I think if your keeping everything within context, we shouldn't be labelled like that, unless there's some breach of law that one is doing.
People starting out in this should know there rules about this before going out and doing this.

We take our hobby very seriously and don't steal anything. If it's on public property, to me it's finders keepers, unless of course there's some identification on it which I can return, or helping someone find an object is just as cool.

It was never about the money. Never...it's much more than that which you all know and won't list.

I don't have a link to this specific news segment, but it has made me feel like we all got placed in a bad light by someone like this.

What does the community think of his opinion?
...onward

 

[robertk]

That opinion is pretty common among archaeologists. I do not agree with it. For one, operating under an “official” banner doesn’t make the activity any different. They’re “looting” the sites in exactly the same way, the only difference is they get paid for doing it and write it down in a catalog someplace and shove it in a box in a basement so nobody will ever see it. (Which is exactly what would happen if you never dug it in the first place.)

 

[bottlebum]

That opinion is pretty common among archaeologists. I do not agree with it. For one, operating under an “official” banner doesn’t make the activity any different. They’re “looting” the sites in exactly the same way, the only difference is they get paid for doing it and write it down in a catalog someplace and shove it in a box in a basement so nobody will ever see it. (Which is exactly what would happen if you never dug it in the first place.)

That's only if it's not put in their own personal collections.

 

[Rock Sinders]

That opinion is pretty common among archaeologists. I do not agree with it. For one, operating under an “official” banner doesn’t make the activity any different. They’re “looting” the sites in exactly the same way, the only difference is they get paid for doing it and write it down in a catalog someplace and shove it in a box in a basement so nobody will ever see it. (Which is exactly what would happen if you never dug it in the first place.)

Kinda ya! Maybe they need to do what Denmark has been doing since the 80's

Denmark’s Hobby Metal Detectorists Are Rewriting History

The Danish government deputized private detectorists to unearth artifacts buried in farm fields. Their finds are revealing the country’s past in extraordinary detail

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[GirlWithWolf]

It has been drilled into me since birth you leave artifacts alone and that is what I do whether it is an arrowhead or pottery or whatever else. I just don’t feel right disturbing them. But I don’t have a problem with others collecting and why I enjoy seeing what you guys find and post here. Seems sad for that history to be gone and forgotten and I think most if not all of us connect to the person that made it so many years ago. It isn’t just an arrowhead, it triggers our curiosity of what that person’s life was like. That’s a good thing.

I get why archeologist feel that way because to them it should all be cataloged and maintained together, but I don’t think that is realistic, not to mention where were they when you found it? Not there, obviously. I get it but they weren’t there and probably would have never gone there, so it takes nothing away from them. And just because someone else finds it doesn’t mean they’re a loser.

Of course graves and burial grounds are much different to me. That is someone’s final resting place and any sign that it is one then searching should stop. I know some feel differently about that and I won’t argue about it because neither of us are going to budge. But there’s enough to be found without looting graves, in the big scheme of things letting someone rest in peace takes nothing away from anyone.

I also feel more modern artifacts (is that even a term?) should be returned to the tribe it belongs to, when possible and practical. If I’m digging around and find something that obviously belongs to the family of Elvis Presley (like a locket), then I’m going to make an effort to give it to them. It’s call respect.

 

[rginn]

Most of what I ever found was out of its original context, as it was in a plowed field. There's a well known site in Oklahoma where 'archeologists' came out and wanted to survey the village site. Landowner thought that would be ok, but then he went down and found they were digging up a prehistoric cemetery and he ran them off. We did have a couple of archaeologists in Oklahoma that would work closely with us arrowhead hunters as we could cover more ground than they could. One guy told me he was fine with us collecting and they had pretty much learned all they could about that particular culture. He was an exception to that profession I guess.

 

[djackson7348]

While some detectorists deserve that label, 99% of us don't. Sometimes I think they are simply jealous of us because there are more of us, and we find more than they do.

 

[Rock Sinders]

It has been drilled into me since birth you leave artifacts alone and that is what I do whether it is an arrowhead or pottery or whatever else. I just don’t feel right disturbing them. But I don’t have a problem with others collecting and why I enjoy seeing what you guys find and post here. Seems sad for that history to be gone and forgotten and I think most if not all of us connect to the person that made it so many years ago. It isn’t just an arrowhead, it triggers our curiosity of what that person’s life was like. That’s a good thing.

I get why archeologist feel that way because to them it should all be cataloged and maintained together, but I don’t think that is realistic, not to mention where were they when you found it? Not there, obviously. I get it but they weren’t there and probably would have never gone there, so it takes nothing away from them. And just because someone else finds it doesn’t mean they’re a loser.

Of course graves and burial grounds are much different to me. That is someone’s final resting place and any sign that it is one then searching should stop. I know some feel differently about that and I won’t argue about it because neither of us are going to budge. But there’s enough to be found without looting graves, in the big scheme of things letting someone rest in peace takes nothing away from anyone.

I also feel more modern artifacts (is that even a term?) should be returned to the tribe it belongs to, when possible and practical. If I’m digging around and find something that obviously belongs to the family of Elvis Presley (like a locket), then I’m going to make an effort to give it to them. It’s call respect.

I agree with you.

 

[Rock Sinders]

While some detectorists deserve that label, 99% of us don't. Sometimes I think they are simply jealous of us because there are more of us, and we find more than they do.

I'm sure there are some that do not deserve the title "detectorist". There are butchers out there I'm sure. I don't have the answers on this issue.
But, I wonder why they don't legitimise what we do with some kind of rewards program. Maybe some of us don't want to be regulated like that, but for others it could be a great way to contribute to cultural and regional history with Archeology. It seems there's a real peeing match about getting the same results. We are reporting what we find on this forum and others so no difference here. Archeologists would be wise to get more bees with honey than vinegar imo.

 

[beepbleep]

"Better than you" syndrome. The key is looting is unlawful. Maybe his intellect is deficient.

 

[Rock Sinders]

"Better than you" syndrome. The key is looting is unlawful. Maybe his intellect is deficient.

And yet we have an army of metal detectorists out there with good intentions.

 

[ToddsPoint]

“Archaeology: Treasure hunting decently concealed under the respectable cloak of science.” Ann Axtel Morris, archaeologist from the 30s. This is a quote from her book, “Digging in the Southwest”. Archaeologists look at us like competition. Because they’re doing the same thing we are. It’s professional jealousy. It also upsets them that they can’t access private property without permission.

 

[Rock Sinders]

“Archaeology: Treasure hunting decently concealed under the respectable cloak of science.” Ann Axtel Morris, archaeologist from the 30s. This is a quote from her book, “Digging in the Southwest”. Archaeologists look at us like competition. Because they’re doing the same thing we are. It’s professional jealousy. It also upsets them that they can’t access private property without permission.

That certainly explains a lot then doesn't it.

 

[TORRERO]

Kinda ya! Maybe they need to do what Denmark has been doing since the 80's

Denmark’s Hobby Metal Detectorists Are Rewriting History

The Danish government deputized private detectorists to unearth artifacts buried in farm fields. Their finds are revealing the country’s past in extraordinary detail

www.scientificamerican.com

It would be nice to have a law where if you were a detectorist, you could sign up / pay for a licence to detect on public lands, and with this you sign a document saying you turn over anything historic to a national historic agency to determine value / historic significance, and if they deem it to NOT be then you get to keep it ! and if it IS, then you get a finder's reward or value reward for finding it and turning it in.
Like England does with a national treasure law. If caught abusing the law you could be stripped of machines and licence

 

[FreeBirdTim]

It would be nice to have a law where if you were a detectorist, you could sign up / pay for a licence to detect on public lands, and with this you sign a document saying you turn over anything historic to a national historic agency to determine value / historic significance, and if they deem it to NOT be then you get to keep it ! and if it IS, then you get a finder's reward or value reward for finding it and turning it in.
Like England does with a national treasure law. If caught abusing the law you could be stripped of machines and licence

We don't have archaic laws like that for a reason. We believe in total freedom here. You find it, it's yours to keep. No way would something like that work in the US. Why people in England put up with that law is beyond me...

 

[Rock Sinders]

It would be nice to have a law where if you were a detectorist, you could sign up / pay for a licence to detect on public lands, and with this you sign a document saying you turn over anything historic to a national historic agency to determine value / historic significance, and if they deem it to NOT be then you get to keep it ! and if it IS, then you get a finder's reward or value reward for finding it and turning it in.
Like England does with a national treasure law. If caught abusing the law you could be stripped of machines and licence

I'd be all in with that. Awesome!

 

[TORRERO]

We don't have archaic laws like that for a reason. We believe in total freedom here. You find it, it's yours to keep. No way would something like that work in the US. Why people in England put up with that law is beyond me...

Just to be clear, you don't have TOTAL FREEDOM to detect wherever and whenever you want here...
You can't go on national historic sites, federal lands, National Battlefields and the like...
You would probably get in trouble hunting the parks around Washington DC.
But maybe with a permit..
I don't see a law like that affecting beach hunting because what you find on the beach is generally not historic in nature..

Anyway I can tell you way, because it gives access to wonderful archeological finds to everyone, it levels the playing field for all to share in a discovery not just the person finding it.... and trying to make a dime off of it. I don't know why it wouldn't work here, it would give access to a host of sites that are off limits, unless you are now hunting them and somehow breaking the law.... in which case, your right it would be bad for you...
It also give legitimate archeologists an opportunity to explore a new found site that has never been discovered before, maybe before it gets looted of any significant value.
But it also give the detectorist AND landowner monetary value of the find if the state considers it a genuine treasure..
I personally think it's a win win situation..

 

[Rock Sinders]

Just to be clear, you don't have TOTAL FREEDOM to detect wherever and whenever you want here...
You can't go on national historic sites, federal lands, National Battlefields and the like...
You would probably get in trouble hunting the parks around Washington DC.
But maybe with a permit..
I don't see a law like that affecting beach hunting because what you find on the beach is generally not historic in nature..

Anyway I can tell you way, because it gives access to wonderful archeological finds to everyone, it levels the playing field for all to share in a discovery not just the person finding it.... and trying to make a dime off of it. I don't know why it wouldn't work here, it would give access to a host of sites that are off limits, unless you are now hunting them and somehow breaking the law.... in which case, your right it would be bad for you...
It also give legitimate archeologists an opportunity to explore a new found site that has never been discovered before, maybe before it gets looted of any significant value.
But it also give the detectorist AND landowner monetary value of the find if the state considers it a genuine treasure..
I personally think it's a win win situation..

Sure, we're kind of the same here on that. If a site has been deemed a "Heritage Site", it's off limits for us to dig there. Just like cemeteries or private lands etc. Which is absolutely fine.
Historical sites seem different as some might be on private property and a permission may be obtained.
Yeah a rewards program would be kind of cool.

 

[AU Seeker]

Just to be clear, you don't have TOTAL FREEDOM to detect wherever and whenever you want here...
You can't go on national historic sites, federal lands, National Battlefields and the like...
You would probably get in trouble hunting the parks around Washington DC.
But maybe with a permit..
I don't see a law like that affecting beach hunting because what you find on the beach is generally not historic in nature..

Anyway I can tell you way, because it gives access to wonderful archeological finds to everyone, it levels the playing field for all to share in a discovery not just the person finding it.... and trying to make a dime off of it. I don't know why it wouldn't work here, it would give access to a host of sites that are off limits, unless you are now hunting them and somehow breaking the law.... in which case, your right it would be bad for you...
It also give legitimate archeologists an opportunity to explore a new found site that has never been discovered before, maybe before it gets looted of any significant value.
But it also give the detectorist AND landowner monetary value of the find if the state considers it a genuine treasure..
I personally think it's a win win situation..

The only problem I have with that system is that in England anything found of private property has to be vetted by the government before you OR the property owner get a "reward" or get to keep it, here anything found on private property belongs to the property owners outright, no government involved.

Now if they did a system where private property finds stay the way as it is now but open up "public" property for that type of system, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'd say no!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

The point I was making is there would be no way we'd agree to give up our finds to anyone and let them decide if they were trash or treasure. Why the people of England think it's okay to hand over their finds to some rich king seems crazy to me in the 21st century.