Detectorists vs Looters

[pepperj]

The Archies have had hundreds of years to get off their butts and find any historical sites still undiscovered. Let's be realistic, at the snail's pace they move at, most undiscovered sites will be covered over with pavement long before they get around to finding them. I'm not going to let that happen in my area. I'm grabbing as many colonial era coins and relics I can get my paws on before they're lost forever from greedy developers.

I stopped and asked for permission (even though I was given permission by the farmer next door)
Guy turns out to be a ruler/paintbrush dude at the University.
The evil robbing detectorist theory 🤣
The guy then dumps 10 loads of crushed limestone for the driveways.Bulldozes it, built 2 houses on the 1812 site.

Basically he didn't give a rat's ass about history, and he made sure it was destroyed also.
I have met Arch. From private companies and they're normal folks that have no problem with detecting because it's recovering history.

 

[pepperj]

I do remember last year a treasure hunter found a very valuable nugget. I think it was the largest in England at the time. I believe he split it with the property owner. Ahh, here's the link: https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/21/style/englands-largest-gold-nugget-scli-intl-scn/index.html

Here's a potato sized ingot that was returned to the finder in my club.
The value of the gold is set at the beginning of the year. Then it's a 50/50 split with the landowner.

 

[Rock Sinders]

And just for the sake of argument... how many times have you dug something that you "Didn't know what it was" and you maybe asked here...
Even on these forums we have a "What is it" category to help ID things that seem unknown...
Happens all the time, plus the fact that a lot of people, prefer to just keep stuff over ever turning anything in..
I mean, I want everyone to know, I also like to keep the stuff that I find, I just wonder sometimes that some really incredible museum quality items end up in a shoebox, that would be nice for people to see and understand..
Clearly if I find a silver quarter in a schoolyard that would not be something I would have to present to anyone for verification, but if I discovered a bronze cannon from Spain with the markings of Desoto... I think it would better to be in a museum than in my front yard..
That's all I'm saying..
I have so often wondered when hunting an old site, "what did people who hunted here before me, actually find"?
Something nobody can ever know..

It makes sense what you are saying. The thrill of the dig and then the questions afterwards... sheesh!

 

[Rock Sinders]

Here's a potato sized ingot that was returned to the finder in my club.
The value of the gold is set at the beginning of the year. Then it's a 50/50 split with the landowner.
View attachment 2215491

Sah weet!

 

[Rock Sinders]

I stopped and asked for permission (even though I was given permission by the farmer next door)
Guy turns out to be a ruler/paintbrush dude at the University.
The evil robbing detectorist theory 🤣
The guy then dumps 10 loads of crushed limestone for the driveways.Bulldozes it, built 2 houses on the 1812 site.

Basically he didn't give a rat's ass about history, and he made sure it was destroyed also.
I have met Arch. From private companies and they're normal folks that have no problem with detecting because it's recovering history.

damn eh! I'm amazed that wasn't made a historical or heritage site. There's so much lost under our streets here too.

 

[Rock Sinders]

I see a wide range of opinions on this issue, and I think it's been quite interesting. This forum has made me a better digger, no doubt in my mind. Knowing more always helps right?
Whether I think I'm a thief in the night or just the honourable guy doing the right thing, I somehow fall right in between them at times, if not both at the same time. This hobby has become my paradox, but I would change a f'n thing. Thank you!

 

[robertk]

And just for the sake of argument... how many times have you dug something that you "Didn't know what it was" and you maybe asked here...
Even on these forums we have a "What is it" category to help ID things that seem unknown.

Of course. But if that happened and I found out it was something important I wouldn’t run and hide it in a shoebox. (The likelihood of that is just about zero where I hunt, but I’ll concede the remote possibility.). Assuming you have permission to hunt, finders keepers works for me. I remain confident that anything important that gets found would get the needed attention one way or another.

 

[TORRERO]

It makes sense what you are saying. The thrill of the dig and then the questions afterwards... sheesh!

I do this myself, dig something and put it in a box and forget it..
I have pieces that would be considered archaeologically significant, but they will never be in a museum because I don't want to donate stuff, and hard to sell it too because of the memories..

 

[TORRERO]

The likelihood of that is just about zero where I hunt, but I’ll concede the remote possibility

This sounds like me, today. schools, playgrounds, etc... not likely to turn up something of historical value..

 

[Rock Sinders]

I do this myself, dig something and put it in a box and forget it..
I have pieces that would be considered archaeologically significant, but they will never be in a museum because I don't want to donate stuff, and hard to sell it too because of the memories..

The find is for us to determine its value, first and foremost. Than WE can decide how to proceed from there. Our perogative, yes.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

I mean, I want everyone to know, I also like to keep the stuff that I find, I just wonder sometimes that some really incredible museum quality items end up in a shoebox, that would be nice for people to see and understand

If I ever find anything worthy of a museum, I will gladly sell it to them. Happy now?

 

[TORRERO]

If I ever find anything worthy of a museum, I will gladly sell it to them. Happy now?

I'm not harping on anybody, I do the same thing.... I find and I keep and maybe I sell at some later date.. In 40 years of doing this I can honestly say I've had some incredible things in my hands from metal detecting, None of them have ever made it to a museum.. But probably should have ...

 

[Rock Sinders]

I'm not harping on anybody, I do the same thing.... I find and I keep and maybe I sell at some later date.. In 40 years of doing this I can honestly say I've had some incredible things in my hands from metal detecting, None of them have ever made it to a museum.. But probably should have ...

Sure. In my mid 60's. Still swing everyday or every second day. I'm in pretty good shape because of it, and don't intend to stop anytime soon. But, someday when the knees are gone and the bending/digging is too much...then I'll have to give...donate...recycle...trash...I'll have to think about that one a bit...

 

[T Hadley]

New here and to detecting, but I would like to share an incident which I call "intellectual looting." I have a 6th Ggrandfather who was with Boone on the failed Braddock Expedition. I was doing research on a Boone cabin and ran across the website of a professional archaeological consulting firm, who was paid to dig the site. This firm did not say where the cabin was and what was found there --they just showed their GPR data, LiDAR data and aerial photos, to show prospective customers their capabilities. It took me about 2 hr of work to determine the exact location using their data, aerial photos, topo maps, and Google Earth . The state archaeologist's office said they had no record of any research in this area. At first, I thought this was a blatant lie; it wasn't. As it turned out, the consulting firm was paid by some Boone historical society, and the data was never reported to the state. When I contacted the consulting firm, the owner got very defensive and acted as if I was asking about Area 51; he refused to either confirm or deny the location I found. He said I must contact some type of Boone family society to obtain any information. The Boone society has somewhat of a cultist reputation in my area; that would be a dead end. I never wanted to know the location of the cabin. I am not a trespasser or looter. All I wanted was a written summary of the relics found there. You would have to be an idiot to trespass on a road that goes about 300 yd into the woods and starts in the landowner's driveway, and you have to drive by his bedroom window, which is about 12 feet away. An organization paid to have a professional consulting firm evaluate the site, and now this organization holds historical US data in secret. This is intellectual looting. I am a very strong believer in personal property rights, but I do not think a list of relics found at a cabin, whose location has been redacted, would be too much to reveal. I have no desire to visit the site or to disturb the landowner. The state archaeologist said they could get no information either, because it was a contractual matter concerning the landowner, the Boone society and the consulting firm. What is ironic, is almost everyone I spoke to the small farming community around the cabin, knows exactly where it is. Money talks.

 

[T Hadley]

New here and to detecting, but I would like to share an incident which I call "intellectual looting." I have a 6th grandfather who was with Boone on the failed Braddock Expedition. I was doing research on a Boone cabin and ran across the website of a professional archaeological consulting firm, who was paid to dig the site. This firm did not say where the cabin was and what was found there --they just showed their GPR data, LiDAR data and aerial photos, to show prospective customers their capabilities. It took me about 2 hr of work to determine the exact location using their data, aerial photos, topo maps, and Google Earth . The state archaeologist's office said they had no record of any research in this area. At first, I thought this was a blatant lie; it wasn't. As it turned out, the consulting firm was paid by some Boone historical society, and the data was never reported to the state. When I contacted the consulting firm, the owner got very defensive and acted as if I was asking about Area 51; he refused to either confirm or deny the location I found. He said I must contact some type of Boone family society to obtain any information. The Boone society has somewhat of a cultist reputation in my area. I never wanted to know the location of the cabin. I am not a trespasser or looter. All I wanted was a written summary of the relics found there. You would have to be an idiot to trespass on a road that goes about 300 yd into the woods and starts in the landowner's driveway, and you have to drive by his bedroom window, which is about 12 feet away. An organization paid to have a professional consulting firm evaluate the site and this organization now holds historical US data in secret. This is intellectual looting. I am a very strong believer in personal property rights, but I do not think a list of relics found at a cabin, whose location has been redacted, would be too much to reveal. I never had the desire to visit the site or disturb the landowner. The state archaeologist said they could get no information either, because it was a contractual matter concerning the landowner, the Boone society and the consulting firm. What is ironic, is almost everyone I spoke to the small farming community around the cabin, knows exactly where it is. Money talks.

 

[Rock Sinders]

New here and to detecting, but I would like to share an incident which I call "intellectual looting." I have a 6th Ggrandfather who was with Boone on the failed Braddock Expedition. I was doing research on a Boone cabin and ran across the website of a professional archaeological consulting firm, who was paid to dig the site. This firm did not say where the cabin was and what was found there --they just showed their GPR data, LiDAR data and aerial photos, to show prospective customers their capabilities. It took me about 2 hr of work to determine the exact location using their data, aerial photos, topo maps, and Google Earth . The state archaeologist's office said they had no record of any research in this area. At first, I thought this was a blatant lie; it wasn't. As it turned out, the consulting firm was paid by some Boone historical society, and the data was never reported to the state. When I contacted the consulting firm, the owner got very defensive and acted as if I was asking about Area 51; he refused to either confirm or deny the location I found. He said I must contact some type of Boone family society to obtain any information. The Boone society has somewhat of a cultist reputation in my area; that would be a dead end. I never wanted to know the location of the cabin. I am not a trespasser or looter. All I wanted was a written summary of the relics found there. You would have to be an idiot to trespass on a road that goes about 300 yd into the woods and starts in the landowner's driveway, and you have to drive by his bedroom window, which is about 12 feet away. An organization paid to have a professional consulting firm evaluate the site, and now this organization holds historical US data in secret. This is intellectual looting. I am a very strong believer in personal property rights, but I do not think a list of relics found at a cabin, whose location has been redacted, would be too much to reveal. I have no desire to visit the site or to disturb the landowner. The state archaeologist said they could get no information either, because it was a contractual matter concerning the landowner, the Boone society and the consulting firm. What is ironic, is almost everyone I spoke to the small farming community around the cabin, knows exactly where it is. Money talks.

Interesting story. There's obviously information being withheld for whatever reason. They're many sites here too that are of interest, but yet the chance of getting in to them could be very challenging or off limits. Yes, money can play a factor with people too. All we're really looking for is the history and maybe preserve some of it.

 

[Prairie Gazingfox]

I agree with you on turning over everything, but I would agree to it if they let us search on "all" public property and those finds only be turned in for evaluation.

Just an FYI, England's Monarchy has no control in their government any longer and hasn't had for a very long time, they are only a symbolic position...but they do get the "royal" treatment and everything that goes with it but they don't get the "treasures" found now-a-days!!

I am not British nor quite American 100 % but I think the Monarchy and government in Britain their premise is for no one to get too far ahead with lifestyle under Capitalism with " too little of an effort". I don't like their premise either!

 

[jeff of pa]

My final Contribution to this Subject. Who Elected Archeologists Owners of Everything under ground ?

If an Archie can have a Slave dig for them with a Knife & Paint brush for hours & Then claim Ownership of what they Dig.

I should have the Right to Dig for Myself and claim Ownership of What I Find.

If I Remember Correctly, a Club Got the Right to Detect on a Battlefield In Gettysburg for Archies. the Club could only put down Flags & At the end were ushered off the site and supposed to be Happy when they were Given a Bullet as a Souvineer & It wasn't even one They Detected

Amateur Archeologists Are a Different Story ! I'm OK With them. An Amateur Archeologists Once went out of his way to say hi, and While I was Detecting inviteded me to See his Entire Collection of PA Indian Artifacs. He never Once Told me I Needed to do the Same.

Ask a professional To show you his Relics

I See it this Way , Everything Under the Ground that doesn't have a Clear Owner or Relative of the owner should be mine if I Find it.

If I'm a Looter for Detecting,So are They !


At least I'm Not a Grave Robber !
I Never dug deeper then maybe 3 1/2 Feet

For the Record I Was Detecting a Abandoned Cemetery for a Catholic Church As they were Restoring it. an state archeologist was putting up signs and told me it was ok what I Was Doing as I Was mainly Coin Shooting for myself and leaving what beloged to the dead and the cemetery. .. He didn't know they Hired Me. He never Once Suggested I Was a Looter and Actually said He suggested they Bring in a Detecrtorist. so I Don't Lump every Archeologist under one Type LOOTER Phrase Either !

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Very little of what I find would be museum worthy. Metal detecting does however provide a direct physical connection to history, which is what I enjoy the most. Archaeologist are ok with buying things that interest them They have to keep it secret when they go out on the weekends collecting (as if their career is on the line). It’s one of those things they have to pretend to hate for the sake of the profession.

 

[TORRERO]

The only problem I have with that system is that in England anything found of private property has to be vetted by the government before you OR the property owner get a "reward" or get to keep it, here anything found on private property belongs to the property owners outright, no government involved.

Now if they did a system where private property finds stay the way as it is now but open up "public" property for that type of system, then I'm all for it, otherwise I'd say no!

So in England if you find something of national historical significance you have to submit it for evaluation by experts. If they find that they don’t want it, you then get to keep it, if they decide to keep it then you get a financial compensation for it to the relative value of the item found, and historians get access to a site they may never have known about, the law says that you get a financial compensation relative to the value of the items found, I’m not understanding the problem with this? They are not taking away your ability to hunt someplace you like only looking out for the interests of the country’s national historical interest