Did the 3 boys dig 30 feet deep?

[chalkoutline]

In 1795, three boys went to Oak Island where they saw a 12’X12’ impression in the ground and a tree nail (i.e., wood peg) in the tree above the impression. Putting the two together, they concluded someone must have buried treasure and started digging.
First they found a layer of flagstone and then found log platforms at 10, 20 and 30 feet where they stopped. I don’t think the story mentioned whether they removed the 3rd platform.

Most who read this story believe the walls of the hole/shaft are vertical; however, that only works for a
while until the sides start falling into the hole. The deeper you go the more dangerous it gets. Therefore, the walls must be angled resulting in the bottom being smaller than the opening at the top.

Google AI indicates the safest angle is 45 degrees; however, if the clayish till is dry and firm a 60 degree angle is conceivable. This is consistent with the Dunfield’s big dig (i.e., a cone shaped crater) where he estimated the angle of the sides were 60 degrees.
The attached diagram shows the depth one can achieve using different angles from 60 to 84 degrees.

The diagram also shows where the bottom would be 6’X6’. I chose this size assuming the boys weren’t
stupid and realized if they widen the bottom to removethelogs, the hole would collapse.
Not being able to remove the 30 foot platform may have been the incentive to come back in 1803 with the Onslow company and continued to dig down to 90 feet using cribbing. They knew cribbing was a must to go that deeper.

In order for the boys to have gotten to 30 feet, the angle of the walls must be about 83 degrees.

 

[chalkoutline]

In 1795, three boys went to Oak Island where they saw a 12’X12’ impression in the ground and a tree nail (i.e., wood peg) in the tree above the impression. Putting the two together, they concluded someone must have buried treasure and started digging.
First they found a layer of flagstone and then found log platforms at 10, 20 and 30 feet where they stopped. I don’t think the story mentioned whether they removed the 3rd platform.

Most who read this story believe the walls of the hole/shaft are vertical; however, that only works for a
while until the sides start falling into the hole. The deeper you go the more dangerous it gets. Therefore, the walls must be angled resulting in the bottom being smaller than the opening at the top.

Google AI indicates the safest angle is 45 degrees; however, if the clayish till is dry and firm a 60 degree angle is conceivable. This is consistent with the Dunfield’s big dig (i.e., a cone shaped crater) where he estimated the angle of the sides were 60 degrees.
The attached diagram shows the depth one can achieve using different angles from 60 to 84 degrees.

The diagram also shows where the bottom would be 6’X6’. I chose this size assuming the boys weren’t
stupid and realized if they widen the bottom to removethelogs, the hole would collapse.
Not being able to remove the 30 foot platform may have been the incentive to come back in 1803 with the Onslow company and continued to dig down to 90 feet using cribbing. They knew cribbing was a must to go that deeper.

In order for the boys to have gotten to 30 feet, the angle of the walls must be about 83 degrees.

The previous diagnosis with two blue triangle was to show how i calculated the angles and depth: i divided the cone shaped hole by two.

I attached the same diagram but adapted it to look like a dug hole.

Based on this analysis, i do not believe the original story from 1795 is credible.
The drawing furthest to the right shows the profile of 30ft deep hole.
1. At an angle on 84 degrees, the dig would be very dangerous.
2. At 30ft, the bottom or floor would be only 6'x6' so they could not remove the log platform at 30'.
3. Although i didn't show the 20 ft platform, the bottom of the hole' at 20' is 9'x9. Removing the log platform would have certainly disturbed the clayish till above and the walls would have collapsed.
4. Assuming they excaped the collapse and made it to 30', the opening of the hole would have been 25' above there heads so how did they they get in and out of the hole?
5. Time: i estimate it took 75 to 90 days to dig to a depth of 30' since 90% of the till was removed by filling buckets.

Where were the parents?
At some point they had to have asked what the boys were doing?
I wouldn't think the boys would have kept the hole/treasure a secret, so shouldnt they have been concerned with the depth they were digging?
If the boys story was convincing, wouldn't they have taken over?

So for me...im with TruthbeTold, its a fictious story.

 

[chalkoutline]

The previous diagnosis with two blue triangle was to show how i calculated the angles and depth: i divided the cone shaped hole by two.

I attached the same diagram but adapted it to look like a dug hole.

Based on this analysis, i do not believe the original story from 1795 is credible.
The drawing furthest to the right shows the profile of 30ft deep hole.
1. At an angle on 84 degrees, the dig would be very dangerous.
2. At 30ft, the bottom or floor would be only 6'x6' so they could not remove the log platform at 30'.
3. Although i didn't show the 20 ft platform, the bottom of the hole' at 20' is 9'x9. Removing the log platform would have certainly disturbed the clayish till above and the walls would have collapsed.
4. Assuming they excaped the collapse and made it to 30', the opening of the hole would have been 25' above there heads so how did they they get in and out of the hole?
5. Time: i estimate it took 75 to 90 days to dig to a depth of 30' since 90% of the till was removed by filling buckets.

Where were the parents?
At some point they had to have asked what the boys were doing?
I wouldn't think the boys would have kept the hole/treasure a secret, so shouldnt they have been concerned with the depth they were digging?
If the boys story was convincing, wouldn't they have taken over?

So for me...im with TruthbeTold, its a fictious story.

BTW, if someone comes up with some evidence that my conclusion is wrong, i will NOT double down on my conclusion but rather change my stance. But you must present evidence, not just anecdotal info and opinions.

Its better to know than guess.
-CO

 

[chalkoutline]

Time: i estimate it took 75 to 90 days

These numbers are low...
If the boys used a bucket that held 3 cubic feet and averaged removing a bucket full every 10 minutes, working non stop for 8 hrs a day, 7 days a week, it would take 5 months.

Throw in breaks, set backs and chores at home and you are looking at almost twice that...9 months....

Really?
Does not sound plausible to me!

 

[mtdoramike]

Aw come one now, what is Oak Island without a few anecdotes and opinions. I can't believe you put that much thought into your assumptions, but looks believable to me and especially as believable as 3 boys digging a 30 foot hole.

I'm still trying to get over just how people with picks and shovels could dig a hole 100 plus feet deep without poisonous gas killing them in the 1700's just as it did to 3 members of a searcher family 150 years later.

 

[chalkoutline]

I was sure exactly how to interpret this. Are my assumptions believable or a hoax like the boys digging 30ft hole?

 

[mtdoramike]

Well if it were a hoax, who built the flood tunnels and why?

 

[chalkoutline]

Well if it were a hoax, who built the flood tunnels and why?

Sorry, but i have not researched the flood tunnels nor do i plan to do so.

What i can speak to is...based on my common sense approach and calculations, there is no way 3 inexperienced boys could have dug a 30 foot deep hole. At best they could have dug a 10ft hole

Therefore, if there are flood tunnels, they are not associated with the MP story.

If you see a flaw in my approach or calculations, please point them out so i can correct them.

 

[Carl-NC]

1cf of dirt weights about 100 lbs and has a volume of 7.5 gallons. So they used a 22 gallon bucket and hauled up 300 lbs of dirt every 10 minutes? They must have been working like John Henry.

 

[TruthbeTold]

Well if it were a hoax, who built the flood tunnels and why?

The flood tunnels have been proven to not exist by people who actually excavated on the island.

 

[BennyV]

Don’t waster your time on here. Truth be told and a few others continue to beat the proverbial dead horse because they don’t believe anything was/is there.

Kind of funny because most of the naysaying armchair detectives around here rarely, if ever, detect.

 

[releventchair]

Dad saw that I helped with two dry wells (septic systems tail ends) by hand.
I may have weighed a hundred pounds. My biceps not quite half that.

Grandfather. (Dads Dad) ,was best avoided at Dads.
Once cornered I be digging a hole for him.
Try it yourself reader , you get neck deep and that is enough. Your instincts will confirm.
Not enough for Grandpas trash (cans and glass) though so another would get dug. (Maybe he had a secret trash route.)
Now if you were me and finished a second hole and Grandpa wasn't in sight I wouldn't fault you for disappearing. Not because my hands were not callused.

Great white pine. Yikes kind of big.
Windy day the ground shuddered making floor shiver in the tar paper garage Dad lived in while he built a house. (Yep , site of second hand dug drywell.)
All hands and rifles and shotguns and not a little ammo quickly pruned the bigger limbs on the leeward side of the tree. And some on the other.

A come- along and axes and shovels over a period of time long after that wind subsided resulted in a hole view standing in it that left eyes looking at dirt mostly. To say it was too deep for comfort isn't an exaggeration. But go ahead and try it to confirm.

Ever find a slab of concrete in a remote place?
Us kids would dig under such. Not hazard- Ly (well maybe) but carefully to excavate a room.
Cave ins are not a maybe. They are a when.
Every year it seems someone has a hole dug on a beach collapse and panic ensues.
Utility companies have trench sides collapse and a worker being extracted gets on the news.
Frost lines in the Midwest have footings required to 4 foot in many places.
Utilities about the same. that's not very deep compared to 80 feet.

The threats required to get random adults to dig 30 feet would be impressive.
Kids? Pfft. Good luck.
The novelty would wear off when their internal survival alarms went off when they couldn't see out of the hole.
Not to mention a kids rule #1 which is ; " Don't get caught!"

 

[Carl-NC]

continue to beat the proverbial dead horse

Yup, 230 years of beating a dead horse. But at least someone finally figured out a way to make money off the horse. Long live the dead horse.

 

[BennyV]

Yup, 230 years of beating a dead horse. But at least someone finally figured out a way to make money off the horse. Long live the dead horse.

We get it. You and truth be told and a few others don’t believe. Move on. Nothing to see here.

 

[chalkoutline]

We get it. You and truth be told and a few others don’t believe. Move on. Nothing to see here.

Not at all.
When i joined 10 months ago, i believe the MP was real and scorned by truthbetold.

3 mos ago I started a thread on "the Dunfield Dig" and truthbetold posted what he had. When i looked at picture of the crater, i realized...that' not a crater but a 90ft shaft with no cribbing and 60 degrees walls.

More research followed ending with the diagrams and conclusions posted in this thread.

Any member can read and believe what they like. But from now on, when you say you believe there is treasure in the MP then you also believe three boys dug a 30ft deep hole by lifting 300lb bucket every 10 minutes, 8 hrs, 7 days a week completing it in 9 mos.

Think about it...up until this post you probably thought the boys dug the pit in a few days or a couple of weeks like i did.

I could have given a shorter answer but decided to show how the forum is supposed to work; sharing research, collaborating and finding a new paradyne...not just "you're wrong" "no you are".

 

[chalkoutline]

Not at all.
When i joined 10 months ago, i believe the MP was real and scorned by truthbetold.

3 mos ago I started a thread on "the Dunfield Dig" and truthbetold posted what he had. When i looked at picture of the crater, i realized...that' not a crater but a 90ft shaft with no cribbing and 60 degrees walls.

More research followed ending with the diagrams and conclusions posted in this thread.

Any member can read and believe what they like. But from now on, when you say you believe there is treasure in the MP then you also believe three boys dug a 30ft deep hole by lifting 300lb bucket every 10 minutes, 8 hrs, 7 days a week completing it in 9 mos.

Think about it...up until this post you probably thought the boys dug the pit in a few days or a couple of weeks like i did.

I could have given a shorter answer but decided to show how the forum is supposed to work; sharing research, collaborating and finding a new paradyne...not just "you're wrong" "no you are".

Btw, if you don't believe my scenario, i can calculate any scenario you would like, smaller buckets, time to raise/lower buckets, longer days, etc.
I will post a pdf with all my math so you can check my work.

 

[ARC]

Don’t waster your time on here. Truth be told and a few others continue to beat the proverbial dead horse because they don’t believe anything was/is there.

Kind of funny because most of the naysaying armchair detectives around here rarely, if ever, detect.

I am definitely one of those naysayers.
I am failing to see your correlation between detecting and plain common sense backed with empirical facts.

 

[BennyV]

I am definitely one of those naysayers.
I am failing to see your correlation between detecting and plain common sense backed with empirical facts.

I continually see treasure legends poo pooed on this site.

Seems like we have more guys doing that instead of actually going out detecting.

There’s the correlation.

 

[Carl-NC]

I continually see treasure legends poo pooed on this site.

It's my guess that somewhere north of 90% of all treasure legends are fake. Many of them fabricated during the hey day of treasure magazines (1960s-70s) and some others originating from the depressive atmosphere of the Great Depression. For decades people accepted these stories at face value and enormous amounts of time and money have been spent looking for treasure that never existed. It's my personal opinion that shining a light on the fallacies of these legends is important and valuable.

In this particular thread @chalkoutline did just that on one particular aspect of the Money Pit, and did a pretty good job. Having personally hand-dug a few large holes (high school job at an irrigation co) I've always assumed that it was unlikely those boys ever dug a 30-foot-deep hole but now we have some numbers to put with it. That's a Good Thing, not a Bad Thing. And since this is a thread presenting skeptical information, you are the dissident in this case. I would never suggest that you should not be posting here, but it would be nice if, for once, you could argue against the claims instead of the claimant.

I get it, you don't like skeptics and you don't like anyone poking holes in these legends. You can always use the ignore feature, maybe then you won't be so tired all the time with all that yawning.

 

[TruthbeTold]

At the end of the day, the “boys” after claiming to find a hole leading to fantastical treasure, abandoned it.

Then one returned many years (20+) later hoping to scam folks out of money with a fantastical fictional treasure story.