Do you have PROOF of a KGC treasure?

[Salvor6]

I have higher standards and I share Boattow's opinion.

 

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[Timberwolf]

I have higher standards and I share Boattow's opinion.

The same goes for me.

 

[stevesno]

I have higher standards and I share Boattow's opinion.

The same goes for me.

Some may question my standards....but this is a no brainer...if one has good ole common sense. Mumms the word!...steve

 

[RGINN]

It's a little late, but I would like to add I know something about Stand Watie. He was not a plains Indian and was not present when Pike came to Ft. Cobb to meet with the Plains tribes. Watie was a Cherokee, considered one of the five civilized tribes. Forts were built in what is now Oklahoma to PROTECT the five civilized tribes from plains raiders. Completely different cultures, with completely different outlooks and political agendas, even to a certain extant today. As far as my plains cousins were concerned, when the white man's war started, there were less soldiers on the plains and a better opportunity to wreak havoc and have a good old time with the intruders in their country. (They considered the five civilized tribes intruders, also.) (Gee, all Indians didn't stick together?) If things worked really well, maybe all the white folks would kill each other and never come back.

 

[Shortstack]

Perhaps Stan Watie fought with the CSA because the USA government STOLE the lands belonging to the Cherokee in the Carolinas and north Georgia. Then forced them to march overland (The Trail of Tears) to the Indian Nations where the land was not worth a damn. I know it would have pissed ME off enough to have done that. The US government did the same thing to a band of Apaches in Arizona; moved them off of a good parcel of land and put them on a piece of nothing but rock and sand. As I've said before; the winners write the history, not necessarily the "Truth".

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Perhaps Stan Watie fought with the CSA because the USA government STOLE the lands belonging to the Cherokee in the Carolinas and north Georgia. Then forced them to march overland (The Trail of Tears) to the Indian Nations where the land was not worth a damn. I know it would have pissed ME off enough to have done that. The US government did the same thing to a band of Apaches in Arizona; moved them off of a good parcel of land and put them on a piece of nothing but rock and sand. As I've said before; the winners write the history, not necessarily the "Truth".

The white man did that in a lot of states, not just 3 or 4.

 

[Shortstack]

KK, I love the story of the Osage Tribe that were moved off of really good land in southeast Kansas and settled on land in northeast I.T. that had nothing but stones and buffalo grass. According to the book written by their first Indian Agent, many died of starvation. Weeeellllll. When oil was discovered in the northeast area of OK, guess who's land sat on the largest pool. Heh, Heh. Talk about karma. And the great white liar couldn't think of a way to move them off of that land and steal the oil.

And what does this line of thought have to do with the subject of this thread? Simply this; in researching treasure caches, never ever take the "official" reports as gospel. Keep researching and look for the private diaries and letters written by the participators in the stories.

 

[Timberwolf]

Shortstack,

Amen to that brother!
I know of two recovered treasures that were found from maps in old Bibles.
One treasure was only a few hundred silver dollars. The other...well, I can't talk about that one, hehe.

TW

 

[Shortstack]

Hey, TWolf. How're ya doing? I recently was told of a treasure lead given by a spirit through a Ouija Board. The person who received the info was related, by marriage, to the person who died and who's spirit was doing the communicating. The person was told almost exactly where the cache is buried and to whom the money is to go. I have been asked to help do the recovery, which I will definitely enjoy.

Now, a naysayer will jump in and yell for "proof". There was absolutely no doubt that the spirit was who it claimed to be, through questions, answers, and comments that were made.

Someone could rightly ask why I haven't posted this on the Paranormal Section. Perhaps I will, after the recovery, but for now, I'm simply using this info to further prove that good, reliable treasure leads and info can come from ANYWHERE at ANYTIME from ANYONE. You just have to be ready to recognize it.

 

[Hoss KGC]

That's very interesting shortstack. Did you ever read Marc Austin's (Tnet founder) story? If you haven't , you will definitely find it interesting.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,28494.0.html



SWR, we have all come to know you think you have "higher standards" than the rest of us here. But as you stated, that's just your opinion.

Boattow

 

[Shortstack]

Boattow, I read Marc's story a couple of years ago and had forgotten it. My friend's experience with the family spirit deals with family property and a specific family member who is supposed to get the buried items. The spirit called another individual a thief, by name and was very unhappy about that. That is one reason the spirit is so insistant about his other named family member getting that buried container. The spirit described the hiding spot to within a 100 sq. foot area. I cannot go to the place alone because the local constabulary do not know me, but my friend is known to them as a member of the current owners' family. This is in an area where strangers would be noticed. I will be armed when we go just in case that thief shows up and wants to participate. With what that person got away with, he should be shot anyway. But, at least we know that he wasn't nearly as smart as he thought he was. His slick manipulations didn't turn out quite as well as he'd planned; which means he might still try to get a little "som'n, som'n" on this final situation. I will not allow that to happen. This person is a living, breathing example of what a scumbag really is.

 

[Timberwolf]

Hey Shortstack,

I am doing well, thank you.
I have no doubt that accurate information can be derived through a Ouija board.
Sold as a game or toy, but they are much more than that.
I would be happy to give you my thoughts on them on my personal page or email, but not here.

Do me this one favor friend...talk with me on the phone before you go to this place.

TW

 

[RGINN]

I read back and saw my name was used in vain. I did not post an inaccurate message, Texas Jay. Perhaps if you visited with native folks or were related to them, it would help your research. Stand Watie, whose Indian name was de-ga-ta-ga (more or less; we don't speak Cherokee well but know Chahtah), which means stands, or standing there or something close, was a signer of the New Echota treaty. He supported removal. It was a wonder he wasn't killed for that, cause most of the other supporters were, and he should have been, as far as many of us are concerned. The civilized tribes were a completely seperate population from the plains tribes, and the Kiowas and Comanches listened politely and told Albert Pike to go to hell. There is no valid historical record or oral histories of the plains tribes aiding the confederacy, or being masons, or belonging to the KGC, or burying gold caches. Sorry. If you can prove me wrong, not by something in a book written by white people, I'll be the first to concede defeat.

 

[Shortstack]

Now, isn't THAT strange? I just had to log in again and I did NOT log out. ?

Tom, I got your email and will do. Not tonight, though.

 

[Timberwolf]

 

[Texas Jay]

No proof of a KGC treasure (in Oklahoma)? I suggest all the naysayers spend a little time googling the name Michael Griffith and KGC and perhaps throw in "Wells Fargo safe" and "gold coins" and see what you come up with.
~Texas Jay

 

[cccalco]

Indian cavalry
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cavalry
Indian cavalry is the name collectively given (for lack of a better one) to the Midwest and Eastern American Indians who fought during the American Civil War, most of them on horseback and for the South.

The Cherokee Braves Flag, as flown by Stand Watie.
Scales'/Fry's Battalion of Cherokee Cavalry
Meyer's Battalion of Cherokee Cavalry
Cherokee Battalion of Infantry
Second Cherokee Artillery
Contents

1 Chickasaw Nation
2 Choctaw Nation
3 Creek Nation
4 Seminole Nation
5 Osage Cavalry Battalion
6 Native American units in the US Armed forces
7 See also
8 External links
Chickasaw Nation

First Regiment of Chickasaw Infantry
First Regiment of Chickasaw Cavalry First Colonel: William L. Hunter
First Battalion of Chickasaw Cavalry
Shecoe's Chickasaw Battalion of Mounted Volunteers
Choctaw Nation

First Regiment Choctaw & Chickasaw Mounted Rifles
First Regiment of Choctaw Mounted Rifles
Deneale's Regiment of Choctaw Warriors
Second Regiment of Choctaw Cavalry
Third Regiment of Choctaw Cavalry
Folsom's Battalion of Choctaw Mounted Rifles
Capt. John Wilkin's Company of Choctaw Infantry
Northwest Frontier Command of Indian Territory
Creek Nation

First Creek Mounted Rifles - Col. Daniel N. McIntosh, Commanding
Co. A - 2nd Lt. William McIntosh
Co. C - Capt. William F. McIntosh, Commanding
Co. G - Capt. William H. McIntosh, Commanding
Co. G - 2nd Lt. A.H. McIntosh
Second Creek Mounted Rifles - Lt. Col. Chilly McIntosh, Commanding
Seminole Nation

First Battalion Seminole Mounted Volunteers
First Regiment Seminole Mounted Volunteers
Osage Cavalry Battalion

First Commander: Major Broken Arm [1][2]
Native American units in the US Armed forces

Indian Home Guard (American Civil War)

See also

Albert Pike
Battle of Chustenahlah
Battle of Chusto-Talasah
Battle of Pea Ridge
Battle of Round Mountain
Benjamin McCulloch
Billy Bowlegs
Cherokee Nation Warriors Society
Douglas H. Cooper
Ely S. Parker
First Confederate Congress
Fort Smith Council
Halleck Tustenuggee
James G. Blunt
John Rollin Ridge
Keetoowah Nighthawk Society
Lewis Downing
Lumbee
Murrell Home
Opothleyahola
Richard Montgomery Gano
Sam Sixkiller
Samuel B. Maxey
Second Confederate Congress
Confederate Government Civil War units: Indian cavalry
External links

LewRockwell.com article on the Cherokee Nation and the CSA
Source page, used with permission from the author
Native American CSA Records
http://juntosociety.com/native/black_dog.htm
Stand Watie Civil War Regiment Roster
http://www.us-data.org/us/minges/keetoodi.html
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_cavalry"
Categories: Confederate States of America | Cherokee tribe | Native American history | Oklahoma in the American Civil War | Arkansas in the American Civil War | Bleeding Kansas | Native Americans in the Civil War | Irregular forces of the American Civil War
This page was last modified on 20 August 2009 at 06:22.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License; additional terms may apply. See Terms of Use for details.
Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc., a non-profit organization.

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[cccalco]

Why the Cherokee Nation Allied Themselves With the Confederate States of America in 1861
by Leonard M. Scruggs
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/scruggs4.html

Many have no doubt heard of the valor of the Cherokee warriors under the command of Brigadier General Stand Watie in the West and of Thomas’ famous North Carolina Legion in the East during the War for Southern Independence from 1861 to 1865. But why did the Cherokees and their brethren, the Creeks, Seminoles, Choctaws, and Chickasaws determine to make common cause with the Confederate South against the Northern Union? To know their reasons is very instructive as to the issues underlying that tragic war. Most Americans have been propagandized rather than educated in the causes of the war, all this to justify the perpetrators and victors. Considering the Cherokee view uncovers much truth buried by decades of politically correct propaganda and allows a broader and truer perspective.

On August 21, 1861, the Cherokee Nation by a General Convention at Tahlequah (in Oklahoma) declared its common cause with the Confederate States against the Northern Union. A treaty was concluded on October 7th between the Confederate States and the Cherokee Nation, and on October 9th, John Ross, the Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation called into session the Cherokee National Committee and National Council to approve and implement that treaty and a future course of action.

The Cherokees had at first considerable consternation over the growing conflict and desired to remain neutral. They had much common economy and contact with their Confederate neighbors, but their treaties were with the government of the United States.

The Northern conduct of the war against their neighbors, strong repression of Northern political dissent, and the roughshod trampling of the U. S Constitution under the new regime and political powers in Washington soon changed their thinking.

The Cherokee were perhaps the best educated and literate of the American Indian Tribes. They were also among the most Christian. Learning and wisdom were highly esteemed. They revered the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution as particularly important guarantors of their rights and freedoms. It is not surprising then that on October 28, 1861, the National Council issued a Declaration by the People of the Cherokee Nation of the Causes Which Have Impelled them to Unite Their Fortunes With Those of the Confederate States of America.

The introductory words of this declaration strongly resembled the 1776 Declaration of Independence:

"When circumstances beyond their control compel one people to sever the ties which have long existed between them and another state or confederacy, and to contract new alliances and establish new relations for the security of their rights and liberties, it is fit that they should publicly declare the reasons by which their action is justified."

In the next paragraphs of their declaration the Cherokee Council noted their faithful adherence to their treaties with the United States in the past and how they had faithfully attempted neutrality until the present. But the seventh paragraph begins to delineate their alarm with Northern aggression and sympathy with the South:

"But Providence rules the destinies of nations, and events, by inexorable necessity, overrule human resolutions."

Comparing the relatively limited objectives and defensive nature of the Southern cause in contrast to the aggressive actions of the North they remarked of the Confederate States:

"Disclaiming any intention to invade the Northern States, they sought only to repel the invaders from their own soil and to secure the right of governing themselves. They claimed only the privilege asserted in the Declaration of American Independence, and on which the right of Northern States themselves to self-government is formed, and altering their form of government when it became no longer tolerable and establishing new forms for the security of their liberties."

The next paragraph noted the orderly and democratic process by which each of the Confederate States seceded. This was without violence or coercion and nowhere were liberties abridged or civilian courts and authorities made subordinate to the military. Also noted was the growing unity and success of the South against Northern aggression. The following or ninth paragraph contrasts this with ruthless and totalitarian trends in the North:

"But in the Northern States the Cherokee people saw with alarm a violated constitution, all civil liberty put in peril, and all rules of civilized warfare and the dictates of common humanity and decency unhesitatingly disregarded. In the states which still adhered to the Union a military despotism had displaced civilian power and the laws became silent with arms. Free speech and almost free thought became a crime. The right of habeas corpus, guaranteed by the constitution, disappeared at the nod of a Secretary of State or a general of the lowest grade. The mandate of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court was at naught by the military power and this outrage on common right approved by a President sworn to support the constitution. War on the largest scale was waged, and the immense bodies of troops called into the field in the absence of any warranting it under the pretense of suppressing unlawful combination of men."

The tenth paragraph continues the indictment of the Northern political party in power and the conduct of the Union Armies:

"The humanities of war, which even barbarians respect, were no longer thought worthy to be observed. Foreign mercenaries and the scum of the cities and the inmates of prisons were enlisted and organized into brigades and sent into Southern States to aid in subjugating a people struggling for freedom, to burn, to plunder, and to commit the basest of outrages on the women; while the heels of armed tyranny trod upon the necks of Maryland and Missouri, and men of the highest character and position were incarcerated upon suspicion without process of law, in jails, forts, and prison ships, and even women were imprisoned by the arbitrary order of a President and Cabinet Ministers; while the press ceased to be free, and the publication of newspapers was suspended and their issues seized and destroyed; the officers and men taken prisoners in the battles were allowed to remain in captivity by the refusal of the Government to consent to an exchange of prisoners; as they had left their dead on more than one field of battle that had witnessed their defeat, to be buried and their wounded to be cared for by southern hands."

The eleventh paragraph of the Cherokee declaration is a fairly concise summary of their grievances against the political powers now presiding over a new U. S. Government:

"Whatever causes the Cherokee people may have had in the past to complain of some of the southern states, they cannot but feel that their interests and destiny are inseparably connected to those of the south. The war now waging is a war of Northern cupidity and fanaticism against the institution of African servitude; against the commercial freedom of the south, and against the political freedom of the states, and its objects are to annihilate the sovereignty of those states and utterly change the nature of the general government."

The Cherokees felt they had been faithful and loyal to their treaties with the United States, but now perceived that the relationship was not reciprocal and that their very existence as a people was threatened. They had also witnessed the recent exploitation of the properties and rights of Indian tribes in Kansas, Nebraska, and Oregon, and feared that they, too, might soon become victims of Northern rapacity. Therefore, they were compelled to abrogate those treaties in defense of their people, lands, and rights. They felt the Union had already made war on them by their actions.

Finally, appealing to their inalienable right to self-defense and self-determination as a free people, they concluded their declaration with the following words:

"Obeying the dictates of prudence and providing for the general safety and welfare, confident of the rectitude of their intentions and true to their obligations to duty and honor, they accept the issue thus forced upon them, unite their fortunes now and forever with the Confederate States, and take up arms for the common cause, and with entire confidence of the justice of that cause and with a firm reliance upon Divine Providence, will resolutely abide the consequences.

The Cherokees were true to their words. The last shot fired in the war east of the Mississippi was May 6, 1865. This was in an engagement at White Sulphur Springs, near Waynesville, North Carolina, of part of Thomas’ Legion against Kirk’s infamous Union raiders that had wreaked a murderous terrorism and destruction on the civilian population of Western North Carolina. Col. William H. Thomas’ Legion was originally predominantly Cherokee, but had also accrued a large number of North Carolina mountain men. On June 23, 1865, in what was the last land battle of the war, Confederate Brigadier General and Cherokee Chief, Stand Watie, finally surrendered his predominantly Cherokee, Oklahoma Indian force to the Union.

The issues as the Cherokees saw them were 1) self-defense against Northern aggression, both for themselves and their fellow Confederates, 2) the right of self-determination by a free people, 3) protection of their heritage, 4) preservation of their political rights under a constitutional government of law 5) a strong desire to retain the principles of limited government and decentralized power guaranteed by the Constitution, 6) protection of their economic rights and welfare, 7) dismay at the despotism of the party and leaders now in command of the U. S. Government, 8) dismay at the ruthless disregard of commonly accepted rules of warfare by the Union, especially their treatment of civilians and non-combatants, 9) a fear of economic exploitation by corrupt politicians and their supporters based on observed past experience, and 10) alarm at the self-righteous and extreme, punitive, and vengeful pronouncements on the slavery issue voiced by the radical abolitionists and supported by many Northern politicians, journalists, social, and religious (mostly Unitarian) leaders. It should be noted here that some of the Cherokees owned slaves, but the practice was not extensive.

The Cherokee Declaration of October 1861 uncovers a far more complex set of "Civil War" issues than most Americans have been taught. Rediscovered truth is not always welcome. Indeed some of the issues here are so distressing that the general academic, media, and public reaction is to rebury them or shout them down as politically incorrect.

The notion that slavery was the only real or even principal cause of the war is very politically correct and widely held, but historically ignorant. It has served, however, as a convenient ex post facto justification for the war and its conduct. Slavery was an issue, and it was related to many other issues, but it was by no means the only issue, or even the most important underlying issue. It was not even an issue in the way most people think of it. Only about 25% of Southern households owned slaves. For most people, North and South, the slavery issue was not so much whether to keep it or not, but how to phase it out without causing economic and social disruption and disaster. Unfortunately the Southern and Cherokee fear of the radical abolitionists turned out to be well founded.

After the Reconstruction Act was passed in 1867 the radical abolitionists and radical Republicans were able to issue in a shameful era of politically punitive and economically exploitive oppression in the South, the results of which lasted many years, and even today are not yet completely erased.

The Cherokee were and are a remarkable people who have impacted the American heritage far beyond their numbers. We can be especially grateful that they made a well thought out and articulate declaration for supporting and joining the Confederate cause in 1861.

PRINCIPAL REFERENCES:

Emmett Starr, History of the Cherokee Indians, published by the Warden Company, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, 1921. Reprinted by Kraus Reprint Company, Millwood, New York, 1977.
Hattie Caldwell Davis, Civil War Letters and Memories from the Great Smoky Mountains, Second Edition published by the author, Maggie Valley, NC, 1999.

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Knights_of_the_Golden_Circle
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[cccalco]

Osage - Chief Black Dog
http://juntosociety.com/native/black_dog.htm
American Indians of the Mid - West
Black Dog

The young Black Dog was reported to be about 6 foot, 2 inches, in height and weighed around 220 pounds. He did marry and had several sons and daughters. None of his sons survived to manhood. During the War Between the States (Civil War), Black Dog and many of the Osage Indians decided to join the Confederate States Army.

Some of the Osage Indians joined the 9th Kansas Volunteers as Union supporters, but they were determined to be too wild and untrainable for military service. They were discharged from Kansas military service. In 1861 about 50 Osage Indians joined Colonel Tom Livingston's Missouri Home Guards and fought with General Price at Wilsons Creek.

Osage - Chief Black Dog
By Don Wise

Black Dog or Zhin-ga'wa-ca (Manka-chonkah) was an Osage Indian born circa 1780 near what later became St. Louis, Missouri. Zhin-ga'wa-ca is a very old Indian name which is not translatable since the last part is archaic and the meaning lost. The Osage Indians are descendants of the Siouan Tribe. They originally came from the Alleghaney and Monogahela River Valleys. When Zhin-ga'wa-ca was young, he lost his left eye in a childhood accident. He grew to be seven (7) feet tall and weighed around 300 pounds.

During a raid upon a Comanche camp, a small, black dog started barking and Zhin-ga'wa-ca shot an arrow in the direction of the dog which killed it. Thereafter, he was known by the name of Black Dog. Later Black Dog was named chief of his tribe which became known as the Black Dog Tribe. Their camp was located in the vicinity of where the city of Coffeyville, Kansas, is now located. The Osages were a migratory tribe which would plant corn in an area, then go hunting for buffalo. Once they had their capacity of buffalo meat and hides, the tribe would return to their camp area where the corn had been planted and harvest it. Their trail in southern Kansas became known as the Black Dog Trail.

Black Dog Married Menanah, an Osage Woman
They had a son in 1827 who became known as Black Dog, the second

Black Dog and some of his tribe did join the 1st Osage Battalion, C.S.A. around 1862 whose commander was Major Broke Arm. This military unit was composed of three companies. Black Dog served as a Captain of Company B. Military records are incomplete on their activities, but we believe that this unit was involved at Pea Ridge and Prairie Grove.

Chief Black Dog and Bighill Joe

Black Dog was elected Principal Chief of the Osages in 1880 and died in 1910. A creek near Hominy is named Black Dog Creek and a township in Tulsa County , Oklahoma, is named Black Dog Township.

George Catlin, the artist, painted Chief Black Dog in 1834. The artist, John Mix Stanley, painted Chief Black Dog in 1843, but this portrait was lost during a fire in the Smithsonian Institute in 1866. Black Dog died on 24 March 1848 at the age of about 68 years old.
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[Timberwolf]

I don't know if I missed something in the previous posts, but if someone thinks that there were no American Indians in the Civil War, then I would have to disagree.

Back in the late 1990's I was invited to a Oklahoma Historical Society dig at the Battle of Honey Springs in S.E. OK.
One of the artifacts that I recovered was a small saddle stirrup. The on site historian was quite excited by my find because it proved to him that American Indians were part of this battle!

Anyway, I may have misunderstood someones post. If I did, I apologise.

Timberwolf