Do you have PROOF of a KGC treasure?

[RGINN]

Naw, timberwolf, it wasn't a dispute about Native Americans fighting in the war; everyone agrees on that. It was about their alleged KGC affiliation. Which all somehow came about from asking for proof of a KGC treasure. Being from Oklahoma, I know a little about Michael Griffith, too. I thought he was more after Jesse James treasure and not KGC. There was some talk about him trespassing into areas without permission also, but might be allegations made by jealous competitors.

 

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[Timberwolf]

RGINN,

OK, thanks.
I don't know much about Griffith. He has a website about the KGC and has videos and such for sale.
I have emailed him twice, but he has never responded.
I am guessing that this is the same Griffith that was once Bob Brewer's partner?
BTW, I'm an Okie myself.

TW

 

[RGINN]

Could be Bob Brewer's partner at one time. I had heard he was known for going into areas without the permission or knowledge of the land owner. If that's true, that's a bad deal. I didn't research that on the internet or read it in a book; just what I heard from real people. And we all know how unreliable they can be, not to mention what a drag it is to actually go out in the real world and talk to real people.

 

[Texas Jay]

Yankee newspaper accounts dated 1864. This page contains some excellent wartime accounts including several about the Indians and also the PawPaw militia and the Knights of the Golden Circle.

http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/leavenworth_times_64.htm

~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[RGINN]

Well, I'll hit it one more time. I wanted to make it plain the difference between the eastern tribes and the plains tribes. The eastern tribes were slave owners and had plantations, the rich mostly white ones anyway, so their interests would lay with the south. The Plains Indians pretty much didn't care one way or the other, and their interests lay with where the most fun was, and if the soldiers were gone all the better. 'Carbine & Lance' by Wilbur S. Nye is an excellent reference book written by a guy who actually interviewed the principals and the children of the principals involved in the era of the Plains Indians after the arrival of the white soldiers. Texas Jay and cccalco probably already have this book, but if you guys don't, next time I go to Oklahoma I will get copies and mail them to you. And although I do argue, I do appreciate the posts of Texas Jay and cccalco and pay attention to them. If I do find the KGC treasure, I promise to post it here, but under an assumed name, like Plehbah, maybe.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

RGINN, I'll be glad when you can get back to this part of Oklahoma for a visit. I think every treasure hunter from Oklahoma should read Carbine and Lance. It should be required reading for school kids in southwest Oklahoma.

We've gotten way off track of the original thread. It's obvious that there will be no proof of a KGC treasure posted on here. Those who believe in them will continue to do so, and those of us who don't never will without verifiable proof.

I have hunted with people in the past who are crazy for the KGC and from what I have observed is that they can make any treasure site into a KGC cache. In two places it was painfully clear they were of Spanish/Mexican origin, but those with me only considered them KGC. I've started posting on our blog newspaper articles from the 1850's and 60's that deal with the KGC. Hopefully people will realize that they weren't the super secret, super effective organization people are claiming.

http://okietreasurehunter.blogspot.com/

 

[Hoss KGC]

It's not that the group was super secret. It's just that they were stashing billions in treasure that was super secret.

 

[Timberwolf]

Do I have proof of a KGC treasure?
No.

But if I did, I wouldn't post it here.
If for no other reason...I refuse to give SWR what he is allways asking for..."proof".

Timberwolf

 

[okietreasurehunter]

A Native American in the Third Degree of the KGC? I think not! This is from their (KGC) own set of bylaws:

I will oppose to the utmost of my ability, and never consent, but vote against the admission of any confirmed drunkard, professional gambler, rowdy, convict, felon, abolitionist, negro, INDIAN, minor, idiot, or foreigner, to membership in this department of the KGC. But I will get as many good and eligible Southern-born men to join this Degree as I can.

This would mean that if there were any Natives in the KGC they never rose to any rank within the organization.

 

[cccalco]

if there were any Natives in the KGC

><>+IX~LLL+~O ~NDN~ O~+777~XI+<><
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,284538.0.html

 

[Texas Jay]

Here are two reports of KGC treasure finds which should be helpful to members who are interested in learning more about the KGC.

Michael Griffith:

http://74.6.146.127/search/cache?ei...3&icp=1&.intl=us&sig=N4SFGEykdAtK6JURbZK.7Q--

***
Passage from above article:

"...One treasure hunter, Poteau, Oklahoma resident Michael Griffith unearthed from the
property a Colt pistol and an old snuff jar filled with gold coins and silver dollars dating
1844-1880. The Gillespie sisters maintain that Griffith did so without permission and
continues to sell the photographs garnered from their property to sell on his website
www.outlawtreasure.worldbreak.com as examples of Knights of the Golden Circle
(KGC) signs and symbols as a treasure hunter’s guide.
Bob Brewer, a treasure hunter who accompanied Griffith to the site and helped decipher
the codes, maintains Griffith led him to the Gillespie ranch on the pretense that
permission had been garnered from the owners. Brewer, along with Bloomberg News
editor-at-large Warren Getler, recently co-authored a book, Shadow of the Sentinel
(available via Amazon.com), with one chapter dedicated to the Gillespie ranch. Getler, at
first skeptical, was convinced after visiting the Wapanuka ranch, that it is the site of a
KGC depository..."

***

Bob Brewer:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-treasure5dec05,0,387467.story?coll=la-home-center

Passage from this article:

"...Along the way, Brewer says, he has unearthed about $200,000 worth of gold and silver coins. It's enough to support his modest lifestyle, and to thumb his nose at those who might think he's just another old coot with a metal detector.

"It's my damn story," he says, "and if they don't believe it I'm not gonna worry about it, damn it. Pardon my French."

Brewer's life is detailed in "Shadow of the Sentinel: One Man's Quest to Find the Hidden Treasure of the Confederacy," a book he wrote with Warren Getler, a former Wall Street Journal reporter.

The authors say their 2003 book, reissued in paperback as "Rebel Gold," sheds new light on the hidden history of the KGC, even as it lays out Brewer's efforts to trace his familial connections to the group and crack the code behind its legendary "depositories."..."

***

~Texas Jay

 

[Timberwolf]

Jay,

Actually Brewer's book "Rebel Gold", is word for word, page for page, the same as his earlier book "Shadow of the Sentinel".
Rebel Gold does not shed any "new" light on anything!

That is the only thing that Bob Brewer has done that makes me unhappy.
I think it was wrong to repackage an old book with a new name, just to sell it.

I bought Rebel Gold thinking it was something new on the KGC front.
When I got home and realized it was no different than his other book...I took it back to Hastings, and got my money back.

Timberwolf

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Tom. I have tried to always state that the two books are the same whenever I refer someone to read it but sometimes I overlook that as I never read "Shadow of a Sentinel", the older version. I only read the new paperback "Rebel Gold". Bob Brewer had his reasons for changing the name and they weren't to trick people into buying the same book. This book is now in its third printing with no end in sight. The pages in my copy are beginning to show signs of wear because I refer to it and its excellent bibliography so often. If I had a copy of the book under its original title, I would not use it because it will probably become much more valuable with time.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[Timberwolf]

Jay,

I have all three both of Bob's books...in pristeen condition.

TW

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Timberwolf. That's great news. The first book and "Shadow..." are probably already worth much more than you paid for all three and will only get more valuable as more people realize what treasures are in them.
~Texas Jay

 

[Timberwolf]

Back to the original question of this thread...

What kind of PROOF are you looking for?

Would the treasure need to be in gold coins or bars?
If so, how many coins or bars would be needed for you to be satisfied that it is a large amount?
As best I can tell, this has never been established in these forums.
Weather you believe the KGC buried large amounts of treasure or not, I would think that it is important to both sides...how much constitutes a "large" amount?

Timberwolf

 

[Texas Jay]

Hi Timberwolf. This is a very good question that needed to be asked. I think the intent of the creator of this topic was to find out if ANY KGC treasure had been found and, if so, could they be proven. Somewhere along the line, after a lot of "KGC treasures", from smaller "marker" caches, were documented on this thread and others like it, the naysayers changed the subject to proving that "massive amounts" of treasure had been buried and found. Like we've discussed before, the "massive amounts" are the depositories. The finders of a few of these have kept silent about them for obvious reasons. Others have been found but many of them are located on government-owned land and private individuals or companies cannot get permission to recover the treasure in these depositories. While I disagree some of Pastore's opinions regarding Jesse James and some of the ways he goes about things, Pastore's group will probably be the first to go public with a huge depository recovery. Then, I believe the naysayers will be very hard to find. I think that by "massive", the naysayers mean something in the billion-dollar plus range but I will leave that up to them to define.
~Texas Jay

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Maybe this will answer the question. Have any of you found something like this?

 

[okietreasurehunter]

I have more of these maps and all of them are supposed to be KGC. It's funny, but they don't show any small caches. You know, the $200 - $3000 kind. Does that mean without somekind of documentation or artifacts related to the KGC being at the cache site you can still call it a KGC cache, or it is just because you want it to be is good enough to make it so?

When I call a site Spanish or outlaw, I can do so because there is something at the site that makes it so and can be verified. I have had people who have never stepped foot on, or know of what may have been found at the site, automatically call it KGC.

 

[Hoss KGC]

Sorry Texas Jay but Pastore isn't digging anything up. I'd like to be proved wrong but it was obvious that guy is greatly lacking in many ways. This is where Alechydell and I completely agree.
Boattow