Doing the "Due Diligence Dance"

[goldenIrishman]

Ok... I am just about ready to turn in my dancing shoes here. Between local governmental agencies not having any idea of what's going on and Federal agencies having even less of a clue (combined with an attitude on the phone as well) I haven't been able to get the required information on some sections of ground that Jan and I are very interested in. Let me tell y'all what I've encountered on this little journey so far and see if I'm the only one thinking there's something funny going on here.

As most of you know, I've been using the MyLandMatters.org site on a regular basis to research areas in an effort to find some good ground to claim and mine. I use all of the layers and information there to decide on which areas to explore in more depth and to decide on which areas to flat out avoid. Using Clays site I can check things like current claims and who owns them as well as access to just about any given area of interest. Jan and I found some interesting ground in a HIGHLY mineralized area that is only 20 minutes from our house and that's where the "Due Diligence Dance" started. Here is some background information that's highly redacted in some areas to preserve our own interest.

The area that we are interested in had been claimed in quarter section chunks by a corporation out of New Jersey. They had grabbed up three quarters of a couple of sections (as well as full sections in some other areas) so of course I was looking at the unclaimed areas in those sections. Well during my research I learned that this corporation had lost seven out of their eight "members" back in 1999. A transfer of interest was filed in November of 2014. Further research showed that the BLM rendered a decision in 2015 that the claims had to be "adjusted" from 160 acres (entire quarter sections) down to 20 acres with in these quarter sections. The LR2000 shows that the adjusted filings were recorded on 08/19/2015. The problem is that NO ONE at BLM can tell us what the "adjusted" claims locations are!!!! BLM doesn't know even though they show it as being filed. The Mohave County Recorders also have zip, zero and nada for information on these adjustments in their records.

Jan and I are trying to do everything "By the book" here and avoid any possible legal problems down the road. What is frustrating is that we can't get the required information we need to be able to prove that we've done our due diligence and done it correctly. While the young lady at the Mohave County Recorders office was very helpful and tried her best, there was nothing in her records on any adjustments being made to the original filings. While the BLMs records show that the adjustment was filed on 08/19/2015, they can't find (or are too lazy to look for it) the adjusted sizes of these claims and their new boundaries. Not only that, but the guy on the phone copped an attitude with me like he couldn't be bothered to do his job.

Those of us that try our best to be responsible miners by dotting all the "I"s and crossing all the "T"s in an effort to follow the laws are running into these kinds of problems on a regular basis any more. Since I started researching these areas, I've developed a feeling that the corporation that had claimed these areas up is/was running some kind of scam and their investors found out about it. While gold mining scams are nothing new, their actions have caused a lot of good areas to be locked up which prevents honest miners from claiming and working these areas. I had considered contacting the company in question to see if they would give me the information on the adjusted claim locations but decided against it in case they are running some kind of scam. What would keep them from lying to us so they could set us up for a lawsuit for claim jumping?

I realize the importance of doing our due diligence, keeping all our records up to date and playing by the rules. It's unfortunate that there are others out there that seem to insist on playing games and keeping honest miners from earning a living off the land. I haven't named any names or given any information on the exact locations in question because I want to be able to file on these areas as soon as I can get things worked out. Even so, I'm not going to stop trying to find out the truth on what's going on here, nor am I going to limit myself to just these areas.

 

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[chlsbrns]

PERMITS & REGULATIONS
Any mining must be carried out in accordance with the North Carolina Mining Act of 1971. Anyone operating a mine that affects more than one acre of surface area must obtain a permit, post a bond, and develop a reclamation program. Further information is available from theLand Quality Section of the Division of Land Resources, 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, North Carolina 27699-1612, telephone (919) 733-4574.

NCDEQ - Gold Brochure OPEN TO PROSPECTING

From the Free Puppies link above:

"Mining" does not include:
a. Those aspects of deep mining not having significant effect on the surface, where the affected land does not exceed one acre in area.
b. Mining operations where the affected land does not exceed one acre in area.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

Who? Me? Naw, I'm just a know-nothin' New Yorker who loves to be entertained. Mama reminded me that if I couldn't say something nice, I should just say "Bless your little heart," and move on.

Wow!!! I didn't know it came in Gelcaps now! The old horse pills were hard to swallow!!!!

 

[Clay Diggins]

This is how mining area is calculated in the law.

"Affected land" means the surface area of land that is mined, the surface area of land associated with a mining activity so that soil is exposed to accelerated erosion, the surface area of land on which overburden and waste is deposited, and the surface area of land used for processing or treatment plant, stockpiles, nonpublic roads, and settling ponds.

An acre is a square 208 foot on a side. About the same area as a corner house lot.

In that 208 foot square all the roads, tailings, shafts, overburden, ore, headstocks, settling ponds, processing plants, chemical storage and tons of black sand.

She has the smallest and richest mine ever on earth and it's in North Carolina.

I guess these folks at Fire Creek (which was considered the richest gold mine in the world until this afternoon) are just pikers. They needed millions of dollars and hundreds of acres to produce their gold.

Thanks for the info chlsbrns. It's been enlightening for far more miners than you can imagine!

Heavy Pans

 

[goldenIrishman]

PERMITS & REGULATIONS
Any mining must be carried out in accordance with the North Carolina Mining Act of 1971. Anyone operating a mine that affects more than one acre of surface area must obtain a permit, post a bond, and develop a reclamation program. Further information is available from theLand Quality Section of the Division of Land Resources, 1612 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, North Carolina 27699-1612, telephone (919) 733-4574.

NCDEQ - Gold Brochure OPEN TO PROSPECTING

From the Free Puppies link above:

"Mining" does not include:
a. Those aspects of deep mining not having significant effect on the surface, where the affected land does not exceed one acre in area.
b. Mining operations where the affected land does not exceed one acre in area.

Ok.... You are going to have to remember that here in the western part of the country claims USUALLY start at 20 acres and get larger from there. I have seen a few smaller one but very few. (IMHO..If you're going to pay $155.00 a year for 20 acres OR PART THERE OF, it's usually best to get the full 20.)

We operate in TOTALLY different ways out here. Unless you're well versed in the way things have to be done in the west, a lot of the discussions are not going to make sense to you when we talk about the technical aspects of western mining. We have to deal with the government at many different levels. From County Recorders to the BLM and USFS, they all have their requirements we have to meet just to be able to hold onto our claims. Were you're at, you just have to get the permission of the land owner (if you don't own it yourself) and that's pretty much it if you're under an acre in size.

 

[chlsbrns]

Fire Creek is one of the few mines in the world that can boast visible gold. Imagine that! Visible gold!

We do not have "A" mine we go from place to place. The USGS files tell us exactly where to go and how many ppm is there. The highest ppm so far has been over 300! You all should try doing things the easy way. Use USGS reports and private land.

For the most part we use borehole dredges. Rarely do we disturb a whole acre. Maybe one of these days you will start using efficient methods?

 

[goldenIrishman]

As has been said by many wise miners over the years... "You let the land tell you what it needs to be worked in the most efficient way" The land is different here so your "Borehole" dredge would most likely be useless in my neck of the woods. The USGS reports are still used but that dredge would be a waste of time and effort here. This is the west. Things are simply done different.

 

[chlsbrns]

As has been said by many wise miners over the years... "You let the land tell you what it needs to be worked in the most efficient way" The land is different here so your "Borehole" dredge would most likely be useless in my neck of the woods. The USGS reports are still used but that dredge would be a waste of time and effort here.

In AZ or anywhere the borehole dredge could only be used if you have water. We know of good deposits with no usable water. We don't bother with them locations.

 

[mikep691]

"If I was out west I would be making deals with land owners ....."

You could make many deals with land owners in the west, but unfortunately for you very few actually have the mineral rights to the land in which they own. The majority of the land in the west is sold surface rights only. Most don't even include water rights much less mineral rights.

 

[goldenIrishman]

In AZ or anywhere the borehole dredge could only be used if you have water. We know of good deposits with no usable water. We don't bother with them locations.

Geography refresher for ya..... Arizona is in the DESERT! Water? What the heck is that? I've heard it's the chemical equivalent of Di-Hydrogen Monoxide though.

 

[chlsbrns]

Geography refresher for ya..... Arizona is in the DESERT! Water? What the heck is that? I've heard it's the chemical equivalent of Di-Hydrogen Monoxide though.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/g...-doing-due-diligence-dance-2.html#post4701186

 

[chlsbrns]

"If I was out west I would be making deals with land owners ....."

You could make many deals with land owners in the west, but unfortunately for you very few actually have the mineral rights to the land in which they own. The majority of the land in the west is sold surface rights only. Most don't even include water rights much less mineral rights.

NC is one of numerous States where mineral rights can be deeded separately from surface.

North Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Oklahoma, Utah, Idaho, Texas, Colorado, Washington, and California.

 

[mikep691]

NC is one of numerous States where mineral rights can be deeded separately from surface.

North Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Oklahoma, Utah, Idaho, Texas, Colorado, Washington, and California.

Well, that list is the west. These states deed surface rights while another party (possibly the original owner) retains the mineral rights. You can't make a deal with a mineral rights owner and go mine on surface righted property. Trespass is a criminal offense.

 

[goldenIrishman]

OK folks... We've been derailed from the REASON and SUBJECT of this post. Let's get it back on track and away from the comedy hour.

How about those of us out here in the west tell how we do our due diligence when looking to claim some ground and some of the problems we've encountered while doing our research. I'm not suggesting that you give away locations so feel free to redact/delete/change/ hide or alter the information as needed to protect your investment of time and effort. (Them claim jumpers is EVERYWHERE!!!)

 

[chlsbrns]

Well, that list is the west. These states deed surface rights while another party (possibly the original owner) retains the mineral rights. You can't make a deal with a mineral rights owner and go mine on surface righted property. Trespass is a criminal offense.

Im sure that most people who own property also own the mineral rights. Just like in NC most own the mineral rights but some do not own mineral rights. Retaining mineral rights happens when property is sold. Most banks and mortgage companies will not give mortgages on properties that do not have mineral rights.

Ok back to the comedy hour!

 

[mikep691]

Back on track Golden, I researched LR2000, drew a line between a well known copper/gold mine from the day, and my best gold on a club claim. finding no open anything through BLM, I puts rubber boots in the creek and searched for signs (and gold). Followed up with the recorders office to confirm. Went back to the location, staked it, then back to the recorder to file the NOL.

 

[Goldwasher]

If it's open to prospecting and not claimed...you find a valuable mineral. Make your monument. Then go to the county and record. Confirm before you go it saves a trip

 

[DizzyDigger]

I'm sure that most people who own property also own the mineral rights. Just like in NC most own the mineral rights but some do not own mineral rights. Retaining mineral rights happens when property is sold. Most banks and mortgage companies will not give mortgages on properties that do not have mineral rights.

Miss [whoeveryouare]...

I am honestly trying to be as respectful as I can, but when
you make flat statements (like above) that are completely
incorrect in most every element, I am torn between posting
the :bullpooping: gremlin or the :LMAO: gremlin.

As wise man once told me something that perhaps you also
might consider: It is better to be thought a fool and remain
silent, than to open ones mouth and prove it.

You're in way over your head, and have just enough knowledge
of the subject to get yourself in trouble.

You know nothing of Real Property/Estate law., so maybe you'd be
better off sticking to recovering micron gold.

Ok back to the comedy hour!

 

[mikep691]

If it's open to prospecting and not claimed...you find a valuable mineral. Make your monument. Then go to the county and record. Confirm before you go it saves a trip

While that would be easier on the fuel, my associate at the discovery also lives in the county seat, so he did the recorder trips. When I messed up on the small miner waiver filing (12 cents postage BLM held the filing for two weeks before returning it), we relocated and added 20 more acres and another associate. Everything is now current and property taxes paid. As long as my paperwork and taxes are recorded and paid in the county, our claim remains valid regardless of BLM filings. BLM checks nothing other than your spelling and blue ink. They won't protect you in a dispute, that all goes back to the county and oldest date wins.

 

[chlsbrns]

Miss [whoeveryouare]...

I am honestly trying to be as respectful as I can, but when
you make flat statements (like above) that are completely
incorrect in most every element, I am torn between posting
the :bullpooping: gremlin or the :LMAO: gremlin.

As wise man once told me something that perhaps you also
might consider: It is better to be thought a fool and remain
silent, than to open ones mouth and prove it.

You're in way over your head, and have just enough knowledge
of the subject to get yourself in trouble.

You know nothing of Real Property/Estate law., so maybe you'd be
better off sticking to recovering micron gold.

I see that I did say something that could be misinterpreted by someone who is *izz*. Oh well!

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/10/fracking-mineral-rights-homeowners-energy

 

[DizzyDigger]

You read an article in Mother Jones? Well, I now must apologize as
that does indeed make you a qualified expert in the subject.

Good luck with that.

Tried to get in the last word​