Doing the "Due Diligence Dance"

[goldenIrishman]

Ok... I am just about ready to turn in my dancing shoes here. Between local governmental agencies not having any idea of what's going on and Federal agencies having even less of a clue (combined with an attitude on the phone as well) I haven't been able to get the required information on some sections of ground that Jan and I are very interested in. Let me tell y'all what I've encountered on this little journey so far and see if I'm the only one thinking there's something funny going on here.

As most of you know, I've been using the MyLandMatters.org site on a regular basis to research areas in an effort to find some good ground to claim and mine. I use all of the layers and information there to decide on which areas to explore in more depth and to decide on which areas to flat out avoid. Using Clays site I can check things like current claims and who owns them as well as access to just about any given area of interest. Jan and I found some interesting ground in a HIGHLY mineralized area that is only 20 minutes from our house and that's where the "Due Diligence Dance" started. Here is some background information that's highly redacted in some areas to preserve our own interest.

The area that we are interested in had been claimed in quarter section chunks by a corporation out of New Jersey. They had grabbed up three quarters of a couple of sections (as well as full sections in some other areas) so of course I was looking at the unclaimed areas in those sections. Well during my research I learned that this corporation had lost seven out of their eight "members" back in 1999. A transfer of interest was filed in November of 2014. Further research showed that the BLM rendered a decision in 2015 that the claims had to be "adjusted" from 160 acres (entire quarter sections) down to 20 acres with in these quarter sections. The LR2000 shows that the adjusted filings were recorded on 08/19/2015. The problem is that NO ONE at BLM can tell us what the "adjusted" claims locations are!!!! BLM doesn't know even though they show it as being filed. The Mohave County Recorders also have zip, zero and nada for information on these adjustments in their records.

Jan and I are trying to do everything "By the book" here and avoid any possible legal problems down the road. What is frustrating is that we can't get the required information we need to be able to prove that we've done our due diligence and done it correctly. While the young lady at the Mohave County Recorders office was very helpful and tried her best, there was nothing in her records on any adjustments being made to the original filings. While the BLMs records show that the adjustment was filed on 08/19/2015, they can't find (or are too lazy to look for it) the adjusted sizes of these claims and their new boundaries. Not only that, but the guy on the phone copped an attitude with me like he couldn't be bothered to do his job.

Those of us that try our best to be responsible miners by dotting all the "I"s and crossing all the "T"s in an effort to follow the laws are running into these kinds of problems on a regular basis any more. Since I started researching these areas, I've developed a feeling that the corporation that had claimed these areas up is/was running some kind of scam and their investors found out about it. While gold mining scams are nothing new, their actions have caused a lot of good areas to be locked up which prevents honest miners from claiming and working these areas. I had considered contacting the company in question to see if they would give me the information on the adjusted claim locations but decided against it in case they are running some kind of scam. What would keep them from lying to us so they could set us up for a lawsuit for claim jumping?

I realize the importance of doing our due diligence, keeping all our records up to date and playing by the rules. It's unfortunate that there are others out there that seem to insist on playing games and keeping honest miners from earning a living off the land. I haven't named any names or given any information on the exact locations in question because I want to be able to file on these areas as soon as I can get things worked out. Even so, I'm not going to stop trying to find out the truth on what's going on here, nor am I going to limit myself to just these areas.

 

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[chlsbrns]

You read an article in Mother Jones? Well, I now must apologize as
that does indeed make you a qualified expert in the subject.

Good luck with that.

Tried to get in the last word​

I posted that link because I thought that you would understand what was said in the article. I should have known better!

 

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[chlsbrns]

Im glad we only need to do due diligence without the dance! We can move to multiple locations without dealing with government paperwork and red tape. A simple look at USGS records, an online property search to see who owns the property and how to contact them followed by a conversation with the property owner. Anyone could do the same anywhere but hey why KISS?

 

[mikep691]

Sorry, but a Mother Jones article does not make it fact or law. You obviously know nothing about the way the west works, and as dizzy says, you might consider not proving yourself a fool any further.

 

[chlsbrns]

Sorry, but a Mother Jones article does not make it fact or law. You obviously know nothing about the way the west works, and as dizzy says, you might consider not proving yourself a fool any further.

I don't see you posting anything to back up your statements. Why?

Out west shows me how much you know about mineral rights being that States east and west have different rights.

http://www.mineralweb.com/mineral-rights-by-state/

 

[mikep691]

don't need to. an article in mother jones says you know how to read, but not much else. I live here and I own property, it did not come with mineral rights. That is MY PROOF. You have a magazine article. Come on out here and try your method. I hope you like yellow one piece outfits that are personalized with a special number on the back that's just for you.

 

[chlsbrns]

don't need to. an article in mother jones says you know how to read, but not much else. I live here and I own property, it did not come with mineral rights. That is MY PROOF. You have a magazine article. Come on out here and try your method. I hope you like yellow one piece outfits that are personalized with a special number on the back that's just for you.

I am not so foolish that I would spend my money on property that does not incude mineral rights.

It appears that you are incorrect about western States...

http://westernmineralconsultants.com/mineral-rights-history/

With a little due diligence you could avoid the red tape and mine on private properties. Move from place to place without red tape.

 

[mikep691]

Things don't work the same in the west as they do in the east. For instance, you can't claim property in the east for it's mineral value because there isn't any open, public land. You can only "make deals" with land owners. The land in the west came with mineral rights through land grants and over the years that grantee retained those rights when the property was sold off in bits and pieces. Most of the land in all the western states is open, public land owned by the citizens of the United States and any citizen can claim his or her portion of that land for it's mineral value.

That property, if the mineral value PROVES to be substantial, could open the door for the patent process if it's reinstated. Then it can become private property the same as a land grant. I think you can that in Mother Jones too.

 

[chlsbrns]

Things don't work the same in the west as they do in the east. For instance, you can't claim property in the east for it's mineral value because there isn't any open, public land. You can only "make deals" with land owners. The land in the west came with mineral rights through land grants and over the years that grantee retained those rights when the property was sold off in bits and pieces. Most of the land in all the western states is open, public land owned by the citizens of the United States and any citizen can claim his or her portion of that land for it's mineral value.

That property, if the mineral value PROVES to be substantial, could open the door for the patent process if it's reinstated. Then it can become private property the same as a land grant. I think you can that in Mother Jones too.

There are eastern States where claims can be filed.

There is plenty privately owned land in western States.

 

[mikep691]

From your link: California Mineral Rights – Short article covering current activity and history of oil and gas production in California written for oil and gas mineral rights and royalty owners. What does that have to with gold ?

 

[mikep691]

think what you will. I like a good fool.

NUFF SAID

 

[chlsbrns]

From your link: California Mineral Rights – Short article covering current activity and history of oil and gas production in California written for oil and gas mineral rights and royalty owners. What does that have to with gold ?

Sorry but I didn't read every link. So now you are saying that people who own property in California have rights to gold on their property?

 

[mikep691]

Sorry Golden, I tried to shut up and get the thread back on track. Gotta love them eastern trolls that really think they know everything. I'm done. will not comment further.

 

[goldenIrishman]

OK CHILDREN!!!!! That is QUITE ENOUGH!!

If you can not stick to the thread and offer something constructive to it, I will politely ask you to leave. If you continue I will have no choice but to talk to the mods about issuing some time outs.

This forum is for helping each other to learn how to be better miners, not for taking pot shots at each other! If a subject is something you know about, chime in on THAT subject. If not.. Just read and MAYBE learn something that can make you a better prospector/miner. If you want to snipe at others... DO it in PRIVATE MESSAGES!!!

 

[DizzyDigger]

My apologies for the comments I left, and for wandering from
the topic. Of all people I should know better.

 

[Jeff95531]

ck your pm mike

 

[StreamlineGold]

Correct me if im wrong Irishman, if you get boots on the ground on these sites and there are no claim markers indicating the 20 acre boundaries, you could mark out, stake and likely claim that site unless its disputed within 30 days right? There are thousands of claims out there without a single monument or claim marker, which should make it invalid. I just think there is a lot of blanket bombing going on with companies claiming up big sections of land without doing the due diligence of actually making it legit.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Correct me if im wrong Irishman, if you get boots on the ground on these sites and there are no claim markers indicating the 20 acre boundaries, you could mark out, stake and likely claim that site unless its disputed within 30 days right? There are thousands of claims out there without a single monument or claim marker, which should make it invalid. I just think there is a lot of blanket bombing going on with companies claiming up big sections of land without doing the due diligence of actually making it legit.

If I understand correctly, it is up to the prospector to check the lands
for existing claims prior to surveying them, as claim markers are not
required.

Could be I've learned a few things here, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[mikep691]

Boundries and corner marker requirements vary from state to state. But I believe they are required at least when you initially file the NOL. You must describe your markers at that time.

 

[Goldwasher]

Correct me if im wrong Irishman, if you get boots on the ground on these sites and there are no claim markers indicating the 20 acre boundaries, you could mark out, stake and likely claim that site unless its disputed within 30 days right? There are thousands of claims out there without a single monument or claim marker, which should make it invalid. I just think there is a lot of blanket bombing going on with companies claiming up big sections of land without doing the due diligence of actually making it legit.

You are infact wrong...if that was the case we would just go pull corners and put, in our own....and then someone would do it to me and then someone to them....and then....and then......In California only placer on un-surveyed land or when necessary due to size you have to put in corners. Lode you do need them. A monument is all that is required for most placer claims. And if someone pulls our post and I don't skin them within 30 days my claim does not become theirs. There are companies I guess that maybe don't do their due diligence...but, think of it this way.... If you are the guy that incurs those first year fees for a company blanket claiming and you didn't actually make a valid location...are you going to keep that position very long? There is a misconception that big companies have gobs of cash to just waste improperly locating for the sake of just keeping the little guys off their claims...and there are hundreds of fellas that think they are going to ease in on a technicality...that doesn't even exist....A guy is much better off talking to these companies who typically in like Nevada have a subsurface claim...and don't mind people beeping on the surface or even drywashing and sniping. Even the companies with mass placer claims may let you. A much better alternative to deciding you deserve something more than something else and using a perceived (and incorrect) loophole to get a claim. Also bear in mind that to dispute a claims validity requires you take the claimant to court or worse THEY TAKE YOU!!!!! Like I said they don't like to waste money....They don't consider lawyers a waste of money....and trying to get a claim this way might just show a fella what wasting money is like.....

maybe you are on to something and I'm all wrong...let us know how that works for ya

 

[StreamlineGold]

Boundries and corner marker requirements vary from state to state. But I believe they are required at least when you initially file the NOL. You must describe your markers at that time.

I believe it is required by the BLM in AZ...or the claim in essentially crap from what I have been told, I could be wrong but that's what I have been told by other prospectors. Obviously the monuments could be destroyed or moved by anyone but there has to be some sort of boots on the ground evidence. I see claims everywhere that exist on paper but no evidence of their location at all in person. I just think companies and individuals just snatch up ground for a 'just in case' kind of situation.

Obviously its easier to stay out of anyone elses claims but for the OP's situation where the ground's claim has dramatically changed in size its worthy of looking into.

Another thing, I have seen some claims that have no gps locations for their boundaries, just a simple diagram describing the landscape and the boundaries, but then you check the site to see where the mounument post markers are, and find out their simple sketch is pretty far from accurate. Its an important thing when there is some open ground right next to their claim you are interested in.