Dont tell its a secret!

[Springfield]

Now don't take offense, please don't.

But. You would have a lot more time to stand on end in the desert if you let go of the fallacy about proving a negative (something doesn't exist). It has no place in logical discourse yet you insist on going to it all time.

And really no offense.

Couldn't agree more strongly. Ironically, many advocates who insist that their position's doubters 'prove it didn't happen' are the first - when someone presents a counter-argument - to say, 'prove it'. Treasure hunters and religious zealots tend to have many similarities.

 

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[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Originally Posted by ConceptualizedNetherlandr http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/420741-dont-tell-s-secret-10.htmlhttp://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/420741-dont-tell-s-secret-10.html
Now don't take offense, please don't.

But. You would have a lot more time to stand on end in the desert if you let go of the fallacy about proving a negative (something doesn't exist). It has no place in logical discourse yet you insist on going to it all time.

And really no offense.

　
Couldn't agree more strongly. Ironically, many advocates who insist that their position's doubters 'prove it didn't happen' are the first - when someone presents a counter-argument - to say, 'prove it'. Treasure hunters and religious zealots tend to have many similarities.

Maybe you two would benefit from watching some Court TV - many things are proved false, all the time. Not everything can be proven false, of course. However since you like that term 'fallacious arguments' then you should see the huge problem with making the statement that something doesn't exist, when that has never been proved nor established. It is a fallacious statement. A simile would be to state that there is no other life in the Universe, outside of Earth. Not proved. Or do you take the position that it is impossible that it could ever be established that the LDM did not exist?

Quite a sweeping statement there lumping treasure hunters and religious zealots together too. While some few treasure hunters might make the 'zealot' category, it seems hardly accurate to describe ALL that way as you have. What a negative outlook you seem to project sometimes. Do you consider yourself as a treasure hunter? Just curious it makes no difference to me.

That ignore function works pretty well until someone makes sure to quote the person being ignored, unfortunately.
Oroblanco

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Springfield wrote

Maybe you two would benefit from watching some Court TV - many things are proved false, all the time. Not everything can be proven false, of course. However since you like that term 'fallacious arguments' then you should see the huge problem with making the statement that something doesn't exist, when that has never been proved nor established. It is a fallacious statement. A simile would be to state that there is no other life in the Universe, outside of Earth. Not proved. Or do you take the position that it is impossible that it could ever be established that the LDM did not exist?

Quite a sweeping statement there lumping treasure hunters and religious zealots together too. While some few treasure hunters might make the 'zealot' category, it seems hardly accurate to describe ALL that way as you have. What a negative outlook you seem to project sometimes. Do you consider yourself as a treasure hunter? Just curious it makes no difference to me.

That ignore function works pretty well until someone makes sure to quote the person being ignored, unfortunately.
Oroblanco
[/FONT]

Correct some things can be proven false, I have said that already.

Requiring someone to prove something false in retort to them pointing out that contrary to your proffer, your proffer is no proof, is the fallacy.

Take a look at all the places where you end up playing the 'butt hurt victim' card because this is pointed out to you - take a few steps back and try to have the conversation over without the fallacy. Might be an eye opener.

Your use of fallacious argument is what drags the conversation to the sewer.

And then you blame the people who point it out.

No offense meant. Please take none. Let's move forward in a logical manner, the most prudent choice.

 

[Don Griffith]

Tell Cindy I still love her!

 

[Springfield]

... Do you consider yourself as a treasure hunter? Just curious it makes no difference to me...

You've constantly misrepresented the point I've made re LDM. When an argument is presented that alleges the existence of a verifiable object, event, person, et al, the burden of proof rests on whomever presents the allegation. In this case, you say the LDM exists. The evidence used to support any argument can vary dramatically in veracity, and the decision to accept the allegation rests with acceptance of that evidence. Notwithstanding the Greeks' claim that nothing in our world can be proven (quantum physics, anyone?), the quality of the evidence is the turning point. As I've stated numerous times, the quality of the evidence supporting the existence of the LDM is not strong enough for me to support its existence, pure and simple. I've never said the LDM does not exist, but I have said (and repeated) that if the quality of the evidence improves, I will revisit my opinion.

I consider myself more of a truth seeker. The existence of treasures are among the things that interest me, yes.

You have me on IGNORE? I'm not sure if that would be a badge of honor for me or an unfortunate weakness on your part. In any event ... oh, well. You've done great work, Oro, and I enjoy your posts. However, I'm occasionally curious why you go to such great lengths to convince others of your beliefs. To me, why people believe things is more interesting than what they believe.

 

[gollum]

You've constantly misrepresented the point I've made re LDM. When an argument is presented that alleges the existence of a verifiable object, event, person, et al, the burden of proof rests on whomever presents the allegation. In this case, you say the LDM exists. The evidence used to support any argument can vary dramatically in veracity, and the decision to accept the allegation rests with acceptance of that evidence. Notwithstanding the Greeks' claim that nothing in our world can be proven (quantum physics, anyone?), the quality of the evidence is the turning point. As I've stated numerous times, the quality of the evidence supporting the existence of the LDM is not strong enough for me to support its existence, pure and simple. I've never said the LDM does not exist, but I have said (and repeated) that if the quality of the evidence improves, I will revisit my opinion.

I consider myself more of a truth seeker. The existence of treasures are among the things that interest me, yes.

You have me on IGNORE? I'm not sure if that would be a badge of honor for me or an unfortunate weakness on your part. In any event ... oh, well. You've done great work, Oro, and I enjoy your posts. However, I'm occasionally curious why you go to such great lengths to convince others of your beliefs. To me, why people believe things is more interesting than what they believe.

IATH,

Your statement once again proves how little you know about the subject.

Springy,

As I have said many times, you are absolutely free to believe anything you want. If your current opinion is that you have not seen enough proof, but are open to the possibility, then that may be a good position for you to take. I have almost every book ever written on the subject. I have been in the Supers many times. I know many of the people closely involved in this hunt. I have seen many pictures of beautiful gold ore taken out of the supers. I have been privy to many stories and some good bit of private information. I don't look for anything on Google Earth. Because of what I have seen and been told, I firmly believe in the existence of the LDM. Has it been previously found and worked out? That is a possibility. I have to admit that the more I learn about "Joe's" Pit Mine, the more I have to admit the possibility, but I also know that the Peralta/Gonzalez Families had several gold mines in the Supers. One was discovered in the Goldfield Area in about 1950, and was the last stage of the Mammoth Mine Diggings in about 1951. The Pit Mine could have been one of the Peralta/Gonzalez Mines, and maybe even THE LDM. It is a fact (although not so well known) that two old mines were found in the Supers. Goes against what the "experts" say is possible, but found nonetheless.

Mike

 

[Springfield]

Springy,

As I have said many times, you are absolutely free to believe anything you want. If your current opinion is that you have not seen enough proof, but are open to the possibility, then that may be a good position for you to take. I have almost every book ever written on the subject. I have been in the Supers many times. I know many of the people closely involved in this hunt. I have seen many pictures of beautiful gold ore taken out of the supers. I have been privy to many stories and some good bit of private information. I don't look for anything on Google Earth. Because of what I have seen and been told, I firmly believe in the existence of the LDM. Has it been previously found and worked out? That is a possibility. I have to admit that the more I learn about "Joe's" Pit Mine, the more I have to admit the possibility, but I also know that the Peralta/Gonzalez Families had several gold mines in the Supers. One was discovered in the Goldfield Area in about 1950, and was the last stage of the Mammoth Mine Diggings in about 1951. The Pit Mine could have been one of the Peralta/Gonzalez Mines, and maybe even THE LDM. It is a fact (although not so well known) that two old mines were found in the Supers. Goes against what the "experts" say is possible, but found nonetheless.

Mike

,

Thanks for your permission, Mike, but I claimed the right to think for myself when I was 17 (well ... not counting the time I was expelled from Sunday school, that is).

Re the LDM, your research has formed your opinion, and it should be respected by all. You've given your reasons and we can understand your argument. [However, citing unrevealed 'private information' does nothing to strengthen yours or anyone else's case in a public forum. Many folks tend to bristle when they hear the 'I've got a secret' statement.]

 

[Oroblanco]

You've constantly misrepresented the point I've made re LDM. When an argument is presented that alleges the existence of a verifiable object, event, person, et al, the burden of proof rests on whomever presents the allegation. In this case, you say the LDM exists. The evidence used to support any argument can vary dramatically in veracity, and the decision to accept the allegation rests with acceptance of that evidence. Notwithstanding the Greeks' claim that nothing in our world can be proven (quantum physics, anyone?), the quality of the evidence is the turning point. As I've stated numerous times, the quality of the evidence supporting the existence of the LDM is not strong enough for me to support its existence, pure and simple. I've never said the LDM does not exist, but I have said (and repeated) that if the quality of the evidence improves, I will revisit my opinion.

I consider myself more of a truth seeker. The existence of treasures are among the things that interest me, yes.

You have me on IGNORE? I'm not sure if that would be a badge of honor for me or an unfortunate weakness on your part. In any event ... oh, well. You've done great work, Oro, and I enjoy your posts. However, I'm occasionally curious why you go to such great lengths to convince others of your beliefs. To me, why people believe things is more interesting than what they believe.

First no I don't have YOU on IGNORE, but Conceptualized, which you had quoted so I got to read that drivel. As to my unfortunate weaknesses, of which there are plenty, have no worries as I won't waste your time further trying to convince you of anything. I hope you have a pleasant weekend.

Sorry for going OFF TOPIC yet again.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

,

Thanks for your permission, Mike, but I claimed the right to think for myself when I was 17 (well ... not counting the time I was expelled from Sunday school, that is).

Re the LDM, your research has formed your opinion, and it should be respected by all. You've given your reasons and we can understand your argument. [However, citing unrevealed 'private information' does nothing to strengthen yours or anyone else's case in a public forum. Many folks tend to bristle when they hear the 'I've got a secret' statement.]

Spring,

It's not "I've got a secret" because the knowledge is out there (mostly local in nature). To people that don't know any of the players and who don't live there, it may seem like more of a secret. I won't say anything, because its not my place to do so. The truth has been alluded to many times. My guesses were pretty darn good, and the more I find out, the more interesting things get. Maybe eventually some of the players will out themselves. Maybe not. I hope so because history needs to know the truth!

Mike

 

[cw0909]

not really a secret

i dont have a secret, just some info, that some old timers
had, (old timers =looking since late 60s-mid 80s),
that were looking for LDM
me ive been looking 3xs, not my idea, was an invite, from old timers
maybe some here had met the old timers, steve, glen, pap, del,all
have passed, side note, they mostly looked for jesuit, but del worked
as a us gov civil engineer, he said he ran across some files, IE: b4 the
internet, and convinced his jesuit hunter buds, he might know the area
for the ldm, off they /we went, i was in my 20s, now 60+, it was very scary
and exciting, so glad they knew what they were doing, ive never really
looked much except internet type, and that looking only the last 5 yr or so
anyway ive never read about anyone looking where the old timers did
was a long time ago, so i have just a general idea, sorry no secret details
were shared with me, other than del said maps were from blm records,
from where we looked.
i looked at the glo records, sorry so general, its all ive got .HH

some files to look into
ARIZONA, Gila-Salt River
Twp 3.0N Rng 8.0E
http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/resul...=N|rng_nr=8|rng_dir=E|m=14#resultsTabIndex= 1
ARIZONA, Gila-Salt River
Twp 2.0N Rng 8.0E
http://www.glorecords.blm.gov/resul...AZ|twp_nr=2|twp_dir=N|rng_nr=8|rng_dir=E|m=14



best i can do for maps, goes with the above


just from my memory,the circled area is where i was when with the old timers

 

[deducer]

First no I don't have YOU on IGNORE, but Conceptualized, which you had quoted so I got to read that drivel. As to my unfortunate weaknesses, of which there are plenty, have no worries as I won't waste your time further trying to convince you of anything. I hope you have a pleasant weekend.

Sorry for going OFF TOPIC yet again.
Oroblanco

Don't think they would be frequenting this forum if they didn't believe in something. Funny how the detractors keep pish-poshing, yet keep coming back here.

 

[somehiker]

The problem with "secrets" IMO, is that over time, as they are shared amongst interested parties, they often only serve to conflate the original story .

Regards:SH.

 

[sgtfda]

Find one of the Holy Stones and the mountain will open up to you.

 

[somehiker]

Ahh yes Frank.
Rocks that sing and tell secrets.
I wonder if the "holy stones" crew are still listening to theirs ?

 

[sgtfda]

Your soul must be pure. Thus they have a problem. .

 

[somehiker]

Could be.
But I thought maybe it was because theirs were speaking German.
Oh well, last year you got to see the base jumpers. Who knows, this year we might all get to see a nekkid hang glider fly over the camp.

 

[markmar]

Your soul must be pure. Thus they have a problem. .

Sarge

Pure soul ? Are you a newborn ? Only One has\have a pure soul .

 

[roadrunner]

Cant do it that way.
What you have to do is sign up for a free photo account. I use photobucket.
Then upload your photo to your account.
Then open when you pm, go to your account, click on the pic, then choose how you want to share it.
Pick the one that has a url, or the one that says for sharing. (facebook, email, ect.)
Then add that link to you pm.

Good name for this thread cause they're all secrets. So anyone know how to send a picture off your desktop via private message? It asks for a URL. Googled it and came up short. Thanks in advance
IATH( thanks for the abbreviation gollum)

 

[Oroblanco]

Ahh yes Frank.
Rocks that sing and tell secrets.
I wonder if the "holy stones" crew are still listening to theirs ?

Don't forget the stones that move, the secret meeting place of the giants, and the cave of the winds.

 

[somehiker]

Don't forget the stones that move, the secret meeting place of the giants, and the cave of the winds.

I've stepped on a few that moved, but not all by themselves. And there's probably gatherings of giants in more than one canyon out there.
But the cave of the winds just might be unique.
And there's the spiral staircase.