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Sandsted

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I'll give you one little fact about evolution.

Take for instance your blood clotting. It takes 12 specific, and specifically ordered cemical reactions in the blood to clott. Evolution would say that the first animals only had one cemical reaction, ofcourse their blood doesn't clott so they get another and eventually we got all 12 and the ones with 12 survived.

If you don't have all 12 you bleed to death.

Quote from Darwin himself, "I was a young man with unformed ideas. I threw out queries, suggestions, wondering all the time over everything; and to my astonishment the ideas took like wildfire. People made a religion out of them!" Good choice of words. All you need to be a believer in the religion of evolution is blind faith. Just take everything you are taught about the theory to be gospel truth. H.S. Lipson (Professor of Physics, University of Manchester, UK) said, "In fact, evolution became in a sense a scientific religion; almost all scientists have accepted it and many are prepared to 'bend' their observations to fit in with it."

If you are a believer in evolution, answer this (please answer this). Did the first fish that crawled out of the ocean to become an animal have lungs or gills? If he had lungs (which were needed to breathe while on land), why did they evolve while he was underwater? If he had only gills (which were needed to survive while underwater), he wouldn't survive on land for more than two minutes. He also has another little problem. He needs to find a "she" who likewise decided to crawl up onto the land at the same time. She too needs to have lungs or she won't survive for two minutes. If he is the only one to make it to shore and to develope lungs, the new species of lungfish will die out when he does.

What about all these "missing links"? Nebraska Man was "scientifically" built up fromone tooth, which was later found to be froma pig. Java Man (found early in the last century) was nothing more than a piece of skull, a fragment of thigh bone, and three molar teeth. The rest was the work of the imagination of plaster of Paris.

Heidelberg Man was built up from a jawbone, a large chine section, and some eeth. Most scientists of the day have rejected it because it's similar to the jawbone found in modern man. Still, many evolutionists believe he's 250,000 years old. And don't look to Neanderthal Man for any evidence of evolution. He died of exposure. His skull was exposed as being fully human, not ape. Not only was his stooped posture found to be caused by disease, but he spoke and was artistic and religious. After Piltdown Man celebrated his 500,000th birthday, his skull turned out to belong to a 600-year-old woman and his jaw to a modern ape. All evidence of Peking Man, who was said to have been around at the time of his friend and n\eighbor, Piltdown, has completely disappeared. He's been reclassified as human. New Guinea Man dates way back to 1970, while Cro-Magnon Man is described as being "one of the earliest and best established fossils...at least equal in physique and brain capacity to that of modern man" (a small brain). In other words, there's no difference.

Listen to this quote from a television program on the subject of evolution:

"To make any kind of juydgment, one has to appreciate how little evidence there is of all our ideas of human evolution...If we were to gather all the material on early human remains, from everywhere on earth, and bring it together in one place, it would scarcely fill a single coffin. There would be room to spare...The gaps are still huge. The missing "link" is more like a missing chain, stretching back longer than the period for which we had human fossils.

Darwin admitted that millions of missing links, transitional life forms, would have to be discovered in the fossil record to prove the accuracy of his theory that all species had gradually evolved by chance mutation into new species. Unfortunately for his theory, despite hundreds of millions spent on searching for fossils worldwide for more than a century, the scientists have failed to locate a single missing link out of the millions that must exist if their theory of evolution is to be vindicated.

The bible says that there is one kind of flesh for man and another kind of flesh for animals. It also says that every animal reproduces "according to its kind." Dogs have puppies, not kittens. Cat have kittens, not chickens. Horses have foals, not calves. It doesn't matter how many of thousands of years pass, elephants don't have giraffes, nor do monkeys have men.

I could go on forever, G. K. Chesterton was so right when he said, "The evolutionists seem to know everything about the missing link except the fact that it is missing."

You want more, I'll give it later. I'll repeat myself, evolution isn't supported by science, it is a joke, when you study it thoroughly.
 

gollum

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Sorry for my lack of education. But what do you mean by fossil vs. bones?

Based on this statement, I assume that you cut and pasted that post mostly from some website.

You want more, I'll give it later. I'll repeat myself, evolution isn't supported by science, it is a joke, when you study it thoroughly.

You couldn't be further from the truth that evolution is not supported by science. The only scientists that don't think so are creationist scientists, whose religious zealotry blinds them to the meaning of empirical evidence. If that were true, then the majority of scientists would have disproven it by now (not just a few religious zealots)!

I see you have no response to our shooting down your 6000 year old Earth "Fact" with the history of civilization. We can factually and without a doubt trace WRITTEN HISTORY back to about 5400BC (That's 7400 years ago). But even at that time, they had their own stories about the people who came before them.

See, that's what religious zealots do. When you confront them with REAL FACTS. They change the subject, attempting to make some other argument. But let's do that!

Let's look at your lungfish. Did you know that they exist today? In a different form, but they exist. There is a species of catfish that can survive for short periods by breathing air in the atmosphere. The reason lungfish evolved in the first place was because the Earth was a different place back then. The ocean had MUCH more bacteria and microscopic life than it does now. They fed on whatever and emitted oxygen in the water. Because there was so much oxygen in the water, those fish only needed gills to extract oxygen out of the water. For whatever reason the microbial sealife started to disappear. The oceans became less oxygenated. Some fish evolved different kinds of gills that were more efficient at extracting oxygen from the water. Some fish became more sedentary (lower activity levels). this lowered their oxygen usage and let them survive in the less oxygenated oceans. A few of the fish started going on land to feed. They developed a tolerance for air in the atmosphere. At first, they basically held their breath for longer and longer periods of time. The longer they continued to go on land to feed, they eventually developed a way to extract oxygen from the atmosphere as well as the water. There was more than one because...I'll give you an example: If there is a crowd of huingry people standing in the street, and one person accidentally finds free steak on the roof of a building, don't you think that eventually, everybody else that's hungry will find a way to the roof of that building? Same thing in nature. It's not that difficult. COMMON SENSE!

Take for instance your blood clotting. It takes 12 specific, and specifically ordered cemical reactions in the blood to clott. Evolution would say that the first animals only had one cemical reaction, ofcourse their blood doesn't clott so they get another and eventually we got all 12 and the ones with 12 survived.

If you don't have all 12 you bleed to death.

I don't know why you bring this up, because it just further prooves that you know nothing about blood coagulation.

Blood coagulates in TWO stages. Yes, it is complicated, and there several parts to each stage, but TWO STAGES nonetheless.

STAGE 1
Primary Haemostasis: You get cut. The blood platelets begin to patch the cut. They stick together using things called collagen fibers. As they form this initial plug in the wound, they release their own particles into the surrounding plasme that affects other blood platelets, and white blood cells. This causes clotting factors that are constantly in your blood all the time to get the platelets and white blood cells to go to work stopping the bleeding, and fighting any infection that might have entered the vessel through the cut.

STAGE 2
Secondary Haemostasis: Simply put, this stage is a complex cascade of chemical reactions which causes a substance called FIBRIN to form, and reinforce the plug that formed in STAGE1, and give the vessel wall time to heal itself, and repair the cut.

Did I know any of this before your post? NOPE! Five minutes of research, told me everything I needed to know about blood clotting. And guess what? You are correct! If any of the body chemicals for any stage of the clotting aren't present, YOU KEEP BLEEDING! Ever hear of a haemophiliac? Those clotting factors that are in your blood all the time, some people lack them. They need artificial clotting factors injected daily, or they can bleed to death from a little cut or a bloody nose! And guess what else? Human clotting and animal clotting aren't exactly the same! So that tells me that clotting has EVOLVED differently between animals and humans, because their needs were different and evolved differently.


Here is a little about C Darwin's religious beliefs from another site:

"Charles Darwin came from a Nonconformist background. Though several members of his family were Freethinkers, openly lacking conventional religious beliefs, he did not initially doubt the literal truth of the Bible. He attended a Church of England school, then at Cambridge studied Anglican theology to become a clergyman and was fully convinced by William Paley's teleological argument that design in nature proved the existence of God. However, his beliefs began to shift during his time on board HMS Beagle. He questioned what he saw—wondering, for example, at beautiful deep-ocean creatures created where no one could see them, and shuddering at the sight of a wasp paralysing caterpillars as live food for its eggs; he saw the latter as contradicting Paley's vision of beneficent design. While on the Beagle Darwin was quite orthodox and would quote the Bible as an authority on morality, but had come to see the history in the Old Testament as being false and untrustworthy.

Upon his return, he investigated transmutation of species. He knew that his clerical naturalist friends thought this a bestial heresy undermining miraculous justifications for the social order and knew that such revolutionary ideas were especially unwelcome at a time when the Church of England's established position was under attack from radical Dissenters and atheists. While secretly developing his theory of natural selection, Darwin even wrote of religion as a tribal survival strategy, though he still believed that God was the ultimate lawgiver.[4] His belief continued to dwindle over the time, and with the death of his daughter Annie in 1851, Darwin finally lost all faith in Christianity. He continued to give support to the local church and help with parish work, but on Sundays would go for a walk while his family attended church. In later life, when asked about his religious views, he wrote that he had never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God, and that generally "an Agnostic would be the more correct description of my state of mind."[5]

Charles Darwin recounted in his biography of his grandfather Erasmus Darwin how false stories were circulated claiming that Erasmus had called for Jesus on his deathbed. Charles concluded by writing "Such was the state of Christian feeling in this country [in 1802].... We may at least hope that nothing of the kind now prevails." Despite this hope, very similar stories were circulated following Darwin's own death, most prominently the "Lady Hope Story", published in 1915 which claimed he had converted on his sickbed.[6] Such stories have been propagated by some Christian groups, to the extent of becoming urban legends, though the claims were refuted by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians. His daughter, Henrietta, who was at his deathbed, said that he did not convert to Christianity."


Listen to this quote from a television program on the subject of evolution:

And just what channel was this TV Show on? Could it have been a Christian Network? Discovery Channel? The Learning Channel? The History Channel? Without the name of the show and the channel it aired on, I would give it DUBIOUS credit (at best)!

Best,

Mike
 

aarthrj3811

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Sounds like you have read every book about the subject...Except for one...I think they call it a Bible. Read the first chapter. There were people on earth before Adam and Eve. Who did the kids Marry?
 

ClonedSIM

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Sandsted said:
All you need to be a believer in the religion of evolution is blind faith. Just take everything you are taught about the theory to be gospel truth.

And to have faith in any other form of religion is an exercise in reality? Get real, Sandstead! To believe in anything it is necessary to have faith, but misguided faith will lead you nowhere. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have your faith, but at least take other information into consideration as it comes available.

The fact is, that scientists and explorers and researchers and ecologists are coming up with new information every day concerning our ancestors and the beginning of the Earth and the universe, while religions center their entire worlds around texts that are thousands of years old, and rarely do they attempt to discover new roots of the respective religion. All they do is attempt to prove what they were taught. Why are there so may expeditions to find Noah's ark if everyone thinks this to be a true story?

Look at it like this. If someone were to discover some shattering bit of information about Christianity, such as only one person wrote the entire Bible, that man was insane and Biblical events took place only in his own mind, would there be a rush by the Catholic Church to reveal this information? Of course not! It would bring the religion to it's knees! But when scientists discover something new, there is a rush to spread this information as it does reveal a secret to the past and this is information that needs to be shared. Very few, if any, scientists would hide information they didn't like. There's no need to.
 

gollum

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aarthrj3811 said:
Sounds like you have read every book about the subject...Except for one...I think they call it a Bible. Read the first chapter. There were people on earth before Adam and Eve. Who did the kids Marry?

Actually, I have read the Bible (a couple of times). I would like you to show me Chapter/verse in Genesis, where there are any people who weren't the offspring of Adam and Eve. I even have a copy of the King james right in fron of me now. HHHMMMMMMM. Nope, sorry, the only people mentioned in Genesis are in the part where the sons of Adam and Eve were Cain and Abel, and Adam begat Seth, and Seth begat Enos, and so on, and so forth. Maybe you a secret version of the Bible that I haven't read.

Best,

Mike
 

gollum

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OH! I think I saw something about that version. That's the one where Adam and Eve move to Eden from Hoboken, NJ, and God was their landlord. When they couldn't make rent, he kicked them out.

I can see why they would want to keep it secret! ;D ;D ;D

Mike
 

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Hey Gollum ! I have read the Holy Bible hundred times and there is no one before Adam and Eve. These guys are talking nonsense !!!
Sorry guys but you don't know what you are talking about.
Forget the scientific terms, open a book and read something, start from the easy ones. If you prefer the Bible, OK start with the Bible. Its a very good book to start with. But please, before you write something, please read it first. As Gollum, very correctly mentioned above, you don't have to know everything. No one does. But if you do a little search before, its much better. Don't try to find the difference between bones and fosils here, do a small search instead.
If you have any information, valid, welcome !!!!
Digman.
 

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digman

digman

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af1733, there isn't such a copy !!!
Thats all rumours and hypothetical nonsense !!!
The famous library of Alexandria, Egypt, had a vast collections of such books, rumors say. They give the cause of the fire of the library due to that collection of books. But thats only rumours... The same exists for the Vatican, Italy, library. But again, no one has access to that sort of things. Personaly, I belive that there is no point in church to hide things from us. What would be their benefit ?
Digman.
 

gollum

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aarthrj3811 said:
Sounds like you have read every book about the subject...Except for one...I think they call it a Bible. Read the first chapter. There were people on earth before Adam and Eve. Who did the kids Marry?

Oh! And to answer your question about who did the kids marry; That's always been a BIG point of contention with Bible Scholars. I just sw a show on the History Channel about the books Banned from the Bible. One of them implies that Eve had sex with her young'uns to populate the world. Well, you gotta start somewhere!

There is precedent for it in the Bible already! Lot's daughters banged him to have more kids!

Mike
 

gollum

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af1733 said:
gollum said:
Maybe you a secret version of the Bible that I haven't read.

Best,

Mike

LOL! It's the copy that the church is hiding from the public. ;D

Hey Dig,

See the smiley? I think AF1733 was joking! See my post immediately after his. ;D ;D ;D

Mike
 

ClonedSIM

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gollum said:
OH! I think I saw something about that version. That's the one where Adam and Eve move to Eden from Hoboken, NJ, and God was their landlord. When they couldn't make rent, he kicked them out.

I can see why they would want to keep it secret! ;D ;D ;D

Mike

ROFLMAO!!!
 

ClonedSIM

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Digman said:
af1733, there isn't such a copy !!!
Thats all rumours and hypothetical nonsense !!!
The famous library of Alexandria, Egypt, had a vast collections of such books, rumors say. They give the cause of the fire of the library due to that collection of books. But thats only rumours... The same exists for the Vatican, Italy, library. But again, no one has access to that sort of things. Personaly, I belive that there is no point in church to hide things from us. What would be their benefit ?
Digman.

Gollum's right, I was joking about the secret version of the Bible. I pointed out earlier how a secret version of the Bible that portrayed the religion in a less-than-positive light would probably never see the light of day. I think the Church may hide less appealing items from the population especially if it may cause faith in the religion to be shaken or cause loss of support for that particular religion.
 

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af1733, you are absolutely right.

Digman.
 

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digman

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Gollum, you just passed the 1.000 posts... Congratulations and the best of luck !!!!!!
Digman.
 

gollum

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Thanks much! I did it on a post hammering the Clintons! Great way to go! ;D ;D ;D

Mike
 

Sandsted

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By your description of the fish, are you saying that if I work all my life holding my breath under water and work at holding my breath under water and I have a mate that has also and our children do the same with other people of the like that my decendents will evolve gills?

"And to have faith in any other form of religion is an exercise in reality? Get real, Sandstead! To believe in anything it is necessary to have faith, but misguided faith will lead you nowhere. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have your faith, but at least take other information into consideration as it comes available."

To believe in anything it is not necessary to have faith. You exercise faith everyday, if you didn't you would have to take a microscope and study the contents of your cereal because you can't just have faith that the people that made the box told you the truth under the ingredients section. If you did study it yourself then ofcourse you would KNOW, not have just the box's word. "...but misguided faith will lead you nowhere.", notice where I put BLIND FAITH.

Show me documents that go back to 5,400 B.C. or whatever you put, I didn't realize you posted anything like that.

And your turtle story, that sounds more like breeding then evolution. We have 3 feet tall cows now because one guy is breeding cows and he takes the shortest cows and breeds them with shorter cows and then takes the shortest and the shortest. This sounds like your evolution, which I can understand. But no matter what you are going to do to the cow, it is a cow. You check its DNA, it's still a cow, no?

And I've never read anything about people before Adam. DIdn't he name Eve that because everyone in the world will have decended from her?

Oh and looking for the ark, after about 4 1/2 thousand years do you believe the wood would still be here?

Interesting that you should comment on the ark. In Genesis 6, God gave Noah the dimensions of the 1.5 million cubic foot ark he was to build. In 1609 at Hoorn in Holland, a ship was built after that same pattern, revolutionizing shipbuilding. By 1900, every large ship on the high seas was inclined toward the proportions of the ark (as verified by "Lloyds Register of Shipping" in the World Almanac).

There are lots of interesting scientific facts in the bible before they were "discovered" by scientists.

Like at a time when science taught that the earth sat on a foundation of either a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the bible spoke of the earth's free float in space: "he hangs the earth on nothing" (Job 26:7).

Same thing like how the Bible also tells us that the earth is round: "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later.

Another interesting thing I read in a science article about the discovery that the sun is actually revolving. "its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end; and there is nothing hidden from its heat." Ofcourse for many years Bible critics scoffed at the Bible, believeing that it taught the old false doctrine that the sun revolves around the earth. Now it is known that the sun is in fact moving through space. It is not stationary as was once thought. It is estimated to be moving at approximately 600,000 miles per hour, in an orbit so large that it would take approximately 200 million years to complete just one orbit. But that's just what your scientists say, don't take that for fact.

I suppose you may have heard of Matthew Maury, who after noticing in the bible, "the fish of the sea that pass through the paths of the seas", he decided to take God at his word and went looking for these paths. "If God said there are paths in the sea," Maury said, "I am going to find them." He is now known as the father of oceanography, but the bible declared the science of oceanography 2,800 years ago.

And please, behave professionally when discussing things. Mocking the bible and those that study it is childish and dishonorable. I said that I'm not for sure on everything here, its just when checking the date of igneous stones, in every part of the earth, they react to the date of about 4,000 B.C. No later date can be found. Orval Friedrich and Leland Pederson have the same results. I'm not sure if my uncle ever checked, I can call my aunt and have her check his files, anyway, if you can give me solid proof that the earth is older (give me something older than 6,006 years, give me something that is not possibly prooved false, or anything close and I will bring it to Friedrich's and Pederson's attention.

But anyway, the real reason I wanted to post here again,

"...YOU KEEP BLEEDING! Ever hear of a haemophiliac? Those clotting factors that are in your blood all the time, some people lack them. They need artificial clotting factors injected daily, or they can bleed to death from a little cut or a bloody nose!"

You still haven't answered me how we could have humans and animals today if all the first ones died from bleeding to death from a bloody nose.

Here, you won't take my words, here's someone elses, "Platelets promote the clotting process by clumping together and forming a plug at the site of a wound and then releasing proteins called "clotting factors." These proteins start a series of chemical reactions that are extremely complicated. Every step of the clotting must go smoothly if a clot is to form. If one of the clotting factors is missing or defective, the clotting process does not work. A serious genetic disorder known as hemophilia results from a defect in one of the clotting factor genes. Because hemophiliacs lack one of the clotting factors, they may bleed uncontrollably from even small cuts or scrapes."

So you are right, they bleed to death "from even small cuts or scrapes."

If evolution were true, if this twelve-step process didn't happen in the first generation (if any one of these specific reactions failed to operate in their exact reaction and order), no creatures would have surived. They all would have bled to death!

Okay, now in his book Darwin's Black Box, biochemistry professor Micahel J. Behe, an evolutionist, acknowledges a "powerful challenge to Darwinian evolution"-something he refers to as "irreducible complexity." He gives a simple example: the humble mouse-trap. The mousetrap has five major components that make it functional. If any one of these components is missing, it will not function. It becomes worthless as a mousetrap. Charles Darwin admitted, "If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down" (The Origin of Species). If we just take the human eye, one small part of an incredibly complex creation, we will see this same principle of irreducible complexity. The eye cannot be reduced to anything less than what it is. It has thousands of co-equal functions to make it work. If we take away just one of those functions, the rest of the ey is worthless as an eye. How then did the eye evolve when all functions had to be present at once to give it any worth at all?

Look in a mirror. Your eyes have focusing muscles that move an estimated 100,000 times each day. Each eye has within it a retina that covers less than a square inch and contains 137 million light-sensitive cells. Even a wide-eyed Charles Darwin said, "To suppose that the eye could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree."

Here's a quote from Sir Fred Hoyle, professor of astronomy at Cambridge University, "The chance that higher life forms might have emerged in this way [evolved] is comparable to the chance that a tornado sweeping through a junkyard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein." He concluded, "The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one out of 10 to the power of 40,000...It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence."

I still stick by my opinion, evolution is a joke.

But please direct me as to where you have these ancient documents.
 

Carl-NC

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Sandsted, much of what you say is wrong, but since I don't think you'd be inclined to listen to any alternative viewpoints, I'll just leave it as that.

Bishop Ussher's creation date of Oct. 23, 4004 BC is clearly absurd. Were it correct, practically every science known to man would be wrong. Astronomy, anthropology, biology, geology, genetics, oceanography, paleontology, physics... all have very clear evidence of evolution, and of an Earth that is very, very old.

May I suggest an excellent book? "The Blind Watchmaker" by Richard Dawkins. He provides a detailed account of how the eye evolved, and how all of those stages of eye-evolution are still found in other animals today. Did you know that structure of the human eye is far inferior to that of a squid? The squid eye is efficiently structured like a camera; the human retina is backwards, and prone to all kinds of problems.

It's quite an interesting book.

- Carl
 

gollum

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Sandsted,

First, the turtles. How do you think evolution occurs? OVER GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS OF TIME!

Next: Haemophiliacs. Just because I say that a person or animal that is a haemophiliac COULD bleed to death from a small cut or scrape, doesn't mean that THEY HAVE TO EVERY TIME! And it may have evolved over time to work in different animals differently.

By your description of the fish, are you saying that if I work all my life holding my breath under water and work at holding my breath under water and I have a mate that has also and our children do the same with other people of the like that my decendents will evolve gills?

No! Not one scientist on this earth believes that evolution can take place in a single lifetime. Evolution happens over hundreds of thousands and millions of years. The way it works is as the fish finds the need to on land to feed, it learns to hold it's breath for consecutively longer periods of time. That's something you can do yourself! If you practice holding your breath every day, you will expand your lungs capacities. You might start off only being able to hold your breath for 30 or 40 seconds. Eventually, you may be able to hold your breath for 5 to 7 minutes! Same with the fish story. See, because of your religious beliefs, you are constraining yourself to the time periods included in your beliefs. If you think for a moment, that the Earth has been here for billions of years, then you can more properly put just what evolution is into a better perspective.

I have explained how we KNOW FOR A FACT that middle eastern civilizations have been around for that long. You either didn't read my explanation of how, or you chose to ignore it. I won't do it again. If you haven't grasped my explanations, research it yourself (and not on the 700 club's website).

Here is a very good explanation of how the whole history of evolutionary thought happened. Read it:

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=2054

1st: Not everybody believed that the Earth sat on a pedestal.

2nd: Even those that thought the Earth was flat, thought it was a circle (a flat circle).

Same thing like how the Bible also tells us that the earth is round: "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth" (Isaiah 40:22). Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later.

Another interesting thing I read in a science article about the discovery that the sun is actually revolving. "its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end; and there is nothing hidden from its heat." Ofcourse for many years Bible critics scoffed at the Bible, believeing that it taught the old false doctrine that the sun revolves around the earth. Now it is known that the sun is in fact moving through space. It is not stationary as was once thought. It is estimated to be moving at approximately 600,000 miles per hour, in an orbit so large that it would take approximately 200 million years to complete just one orbit. But that's just what your scientists say, don't take that for fact.

Those are your Bible Quotes, right? Guess who it was that branded people as Heretics, and had them burned at the stake and tortured, who didn't believe those two things? YOU GOT IT! THE CHURCH!

See, you think I don't believe in creation. You are mistaken! I just think it happened MUCH longer ago than you do. You just came on here with an absurd statement, and several of us here have tried to show you where you are wrong with proveable facts. All you do is go to your religious websites and cut-n-paste different selections without fully understanding them, or whether or not they have any basis in reality.

See, when this started with you, from reading your posts, I thought that you just didn't have all the knowledge you needed to make your choices. You seemed open to real arguments. That's the only reason I took all the time to research different subjects, to find the best way to teach you some of where you were mistaken. I now see, from your constant cut-n-paste anti-evolution posts that is not true. I see now that no matter how perfect the logic and science, you will keep on believeing what you believe. I now give up trying to educate you. You just go ahead and live in the Dark Ages, rejecting everything that doesn't fit Benny Hinn's view of the world and heaven. I hope that living in ignorance of the world will take you far in life!

Best,

Mike
 

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